"How can we compete with Clemson?"

[STG]

Yet those 4 classes still average out to be better than what Miami's last 4 average.

Where in the OP does it say that we've been recruiting at that level over the last four years? We went through a coaching change during that time period.

The point is that this class compares very favorably to the classes Clemson signed to build a championship team.

Your original post implied that Miami's current class is better than any Dabo has ever recruited. That is simply false and extremely misleading for those simply looking at team recruiting rankings. What matters is the quality of said classes we are looking at.

For example. Miami could have signed 27 kids this year, a mixture of 4 star and 3 stars, while Clemson 15, and even though Clemson may have had a class full of nothing but 5 and 4 stars players, Miami would still be ranked higher simply because team recruiting rankings are based on total points. That does not mean Miami had a better class than Clemson. That is again why you look at the average ranking per player. And again, Clemson's last two classes have been better than Miami's class this year. And Clemson's last 4 classes are better than Miami's last 4 classes as well on average. And by a huge margin of 3 points per player. Again, that is the difference between a 4 star and 3 star player.

So your original post is completely misleading and inaccurate. Everyone knows QUALITY of the players is what matters. That is exactly why when you go 0-9 for the top kids in Dade an Broward over the last 3 years that is a problem. And 1-30 for the top rated kids in the state over the last 3 years as well. Sorry, but you can't miss on that amount of elite level talent, with the discrepancy in staff's like we currently have to that of the Bama, Clemson's and Ohio State's of the world and say this class could help us compete at a NC level. You would need 3-4 classes in a row of this caliber as well as serious upgrades on this staff to even discuss being able to compete with elite level programs.

 

[Hurracanes]

Yet those 4 classes still average out to be better than what Miami's last 4 average.

Where in the OP does it say that we've been recruiting at that level over the last four years? We went through a coaching change during that time period.

The point is that this class compares very favorably to the classes Clemson signed to build a championship team.

Your original point suggests that we recruited better than Clemson did any year under Dabo.

You used class rankings which only tell part of the story and are weighted towards larger classes.

You then conveniently pull composite player ranking averages to distract from the original point.

Why the change up? Exposed much on your lack of thought in your original post?

The final dagger in your thoughtless OP, Clemson passed us in the team rankings that once again weights towards bigger classes.

Not only that, they did it with 6 less recruits (17 to our 23) and still they have a higher player at 2.46 (which is big) than ours. They got stud after stud.

We whiffed on some guys, but they held the high ground. I like who we have gotten the past two years with a full year to recruit under Richt. It still doesn't change that Clemson has been our daddy on the field and in recruiting. Gap should be closing a bit, but much more is needed. No need to spin it, it is what it is.

The OP used the industry standard team rankings.

When someone pointed to player ranking averages, I noted that Clemson built their championship team with classes that ranked lower than our '18 class by either measure.

This is a big time class. If we recruit like this every year, we will be able to play with anyone.

D$,

I know you’re an advocate of Defense winning championships, particurly the DT position. Do you believe the struggle to bring in quality depth at DT (and DE’s in this class) may have pushed us back a couple of years? There is no question our Offense will improve significantly, I just fear our Defense may stay status quo. Thoughts?

 

[STG]

Mark Richt is 12-18 against teams ranked in the top 10 over his entire career. I stand corrected about UGA, he went an astonishing 39-37 against ranked opponents. 14-24 in his last 8 seasons at Georgia.

Can someone decipher this for me? I'm not seeing how the math adds up. Not doubting it, just need further clarification.

Cheeseburger, Lineage 14.1

Overall, between his stints at Georgia and Miami, Richt's record against top 10 ranked opponents is 12-18.

While only at Georgia, in his 15 years there, he was 39-37 against ranked opponents. In his first 7 seasons at Georgia he went 25-13 against ranked opponents. Over his final 8 seasons he went 14-24 against ranked opponents. 25 wins his first seven season + 14 wins his last 8 seasons gives you 39 wins against ranked opponents. 13 losses his first 7 seasons + 24 losses his final 8 season gives you 37 losses against ranked opponents.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Ah yes, the ever popular outlier example.

The board is wising up to that type of thing. I am impressed, including by many posts in this thread. Administrators and moderators need to be aware of the trend, before desperately resorting to outliers.

From what I gather, the outlier crap was cherished and allowed undeserved weight on Grassy or whatever sites fed to this one. Not surprising. Bar stool caliber fans were somehow taught that one counter example is all you need to win the debate. Nope, it is all you need to stamp yourself a lost cause.

Why bother with the common link among champions if you are going to completely betray the premise by pretending that lower recruiting rankings are perfectly fine? The only reason Clemson became an outlier success was due to a freak talent like Deshaun Watson, who overcame a 14 point 4th quarter deficit against Nick Saban. I remember posting after last year's recruiting class that it was a nice upgrade but now it places extreme burden on N'Kosi Perry, or someone like him. In total our roster isn't championship caliber so we'll only threaten to unseat the true blue bloods if one or two ultra elite talents emerge to put us over the top.

Not likely. Besides, that type of thing does not carry a long lifespan. We saw the more representative gap between Alabama and Clemson this year, when Clemson lacked Deshaun Watson.

 

[Mico Jones]

Ah yes, the ever popular outlier example.

The board is wising up to that type of thing. I am impressed, including by many posts in this thread. Administrators and moderators need to be aware of the trend, before desperately resorting to outliers.

From what I gather, the outlier crap was cherished and allowed undeserved weight on Grassy or whatever sites fed to this one. Not surprising. Bar stool caliber fans were somehow taught that one counter example is all you need to win the debate. Nope, it is all you need to stamp yourself a lost cause.

Why bother with the common link among champions if you are going to completely betray the premise by pretending that lower recruiting rankings are perfectly fine? The only reason Clemson became an outlier success was due to a freak talent like Deshaun Watson, who overcame a 14 point 4th quarter deficit against Nick Saban. I remember posting after last year's recruiting class that it was a nice upgrade but now it places extreme burden on N'Kosi Perry, or someone like him. In total our roster isn't championship caliber so we'll only threaten to unseat the true blue bloods if one or two ultra elite talents emerge to put us over the top.

Not likely. Besides, that type of thing does not carry a long lifespan. We saw the more representative gap between Alabama and Clemson this year, when Clemson lacked Deshaun Watson.

And Clemson got to that point by $tealing away Watson from Georgia.

Gotta pay for the elite talent.

 

[CaneOil]

Recruiting rankings since Dabo Swinney became head coach:

2009: 36th
2010: 27th
2011: 10th
2012: 20th
2013: 15th
2014: 16th
2015: 9th
2016: 11th
2017: 16th
2018: 7th

Our class is currently ranked 5th, higher than any class in Dabo's career.

Losing the Heritage CBs was a huge failure. This class was a tremendous success.

He's very good at recruiting QB's and linemen which keeps you at the top. Once we get a real good QB in there things will change.

 

[djrion]

Mark Richt is 12-18 against teams ranked in the top 10 over his entire career. I stand corrected about UGA, he went an astonishing 39-37 against ranked opponents. 14-24 in his last 8 seasons at Georgia.

Can someone decipher this for me? I'm not seeing how the math adds up. Not doubting it, just need further clarification.

Cheeseburger, Lineage 14.1

Overall, between his stints at Georgia and Miami, Richt's record against top 10 ranked opponents is 12-18.

While only at Georgia, in his 15 years there, he was 39-37 against ranked opponents. In his first 7 seasons at Georgia he went 25-13 against ranked opponents. Over his final 8 seasons he went 14-24 against ranked opponents. 25 wins his first seven season + 14 wins his last 8 seasons gives you 39 wins against ranked opponents. 13 losses his first 7 seasons + 24 losses his final 8 season gives you 37 losses against ranked opponents.

I see my reading comprehension was a massive failure. Thanks for re-explaining, but I should have understood you first go around!

I'd love to see what it is at UM only. Although the fear is a regression to the mean... So that might not matter.


Cheeseburger, Lineage 14.1

 

[OldhamA]

#4 class

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

proud of my team and proud to be a Miami Hurricane!!!

#7

Fake news

Have you ****ed yourself raw yet, mate?

 

[Mr. Crabs Cane]

Clemson won the national championship because of Deshaun Watson. They had the #1 D-line this year and lost 24-6 to alabama. One of our QBs panout and we will be in good shape.

 

[Rellyrell]

Yet those 4 classes still average out to be better than what Miami's last 4 average.

Where in the OP does it say that we've been recruiting at that level over the last four years? We went through a coaching change during that time period.

The point is that this class compares very favorably to the classes Clemson signed to build a championship team.

Your original post implied that Miami's current class is better than any Dabo has ever recruited. That is simply false and extremely misleading for those simply looking at team recruiting rankings. What matters is the quality of said classes we are looking at.

For example. Miami could have signed 27 kids this year, a mixture of 4 star and 3 stars, while Clemson 15, and even though Clemson may have had a class full of nothing but 5 and 4 stars players, Miami would still be ranked higher simply because team recruiting rankings are based on total points. That does not mean Miami had a better class than Clemson. That is again why you look at the average ranking per player. And again, Clemson's last two classes have been better than Miami's class this year. And Clemson's last 4 classes are better than Miami's last 4 classes as well on average. And by a huge margin of 3 points per player. Again, that is the difference between a 4 star and 3 star player.

So your original post is completely misleading and inaccurate. Everyone knows QUALITY of the players is what matters. That is exactly why when you go 0-9 for the top kids in Dade an Broward over the last 3 years that is a problem. And 1-30 for the top rated kids in the state over the last 3 years as well. Sorry, but you can't miss on that amount of elite level talent, with the discrepancy in staff's like we currently have to that of the Bama, Clemson's and Ohio State's of the world and say this class could help us compete at a NC level. You would need 3-4 classes in a row of this caliber as well as serious upgrades on this staff to even discuss being able to compete with elite level programs.

Don’t know y folks don’t get this concept. Great rebuttal.

 

[TheMatador]

Recruiting rankings since Dabo Swinney became head coach:

2009: 36th
2010: 27th
2011: 10th
2012: 20th
2013: 15th
2014: 16th
2015: 9th
2016: 11th
2017: 16th
2018: 7th

Our class is currently ranked 5th, higher than any class in Dabo's career.

Losing the Heritage CBs was a huge failure. This class was a tremendous success.

dabo recruits in south carolina. We recruit in the top area in the country for hs football bar none. We could sh*t and have classes ranked in the top 10. I dont wanna recruit like clemson...with our current staff i wanna recruit like bama...because they arent out scheming anybody.

I still think this class is good though

The class is good, but do we have enough quality defensive linemen? I doubt it.

 

[Dghustla]

Many on this board have falling into ESPN brainwashing that you have to have a top 3 class to be elite. It’s such a false narravite. With proper coaching and development this class has more than enough talent to win a ship. The most important thing is finding a QB. I would love to see OU class ranking over the same time span also.

 

[Dghustla]

Yet those 4 classes still average out to be better than what Miami's last 4 average.

Where in the OP does it say that we've been recruiting at that level over the last four years? We went through a coaching change during that time period.

The point is that this class compares very favorably to the classes Clemson signed to build a championship team.

Your original post implied that Miami's current class is better than any Dabo has ever recruited. That is simply false and extremely misleading for those simply looking at team recruiting rankings. What matters is the quality of said classes we are looking at.

For example. Miami could have signed 27 kids this year, a mixture of 4 star and 3 stars, while Clemson 15, and even though Clemson may have had a class full of nothing but 5 and 4 stars players, Miami would still be ranked higher simply because team recruiting rankings are based on total points. That does not mean Miami had a better class than Clemson. That is again why you look at the average ranking per player. And again, Clemson's last two classes have been better than Miami's class this year. And Clemson's last 4 classes are better than Miami's last 4 classes as well on average. And by a huge margin of 3 points per player. Again, that is the difference between a 4 star and 3 star player.

So your original post is completely misleading and inaccurate. Everyone knows QUALITY of the players is what matters. That is exactly why when you go 0-9 for the top kids in Dade an Broward over the last 3 years that is a problem. And 1-30 for the top rated kids in the state over the last 3 years as well. Sorry, but you can't miss on that amount of elite level talent, with the discrepancy in staff's like we currently have to that of the Bama, Clemson's and Ohio State's of the world and say this class could help us compete at a NC level. You would need 3-4 classes in a row of this caliber as well as serious upgrades on this staff to even discuss being able to compete with elite level programs.

Don’t know y folks don’t get this concept. Great rebuttal.

No because it’s flawed. There are teams with The exact scenario he described this year who aren’t ranked ahead of Clemson. Some of you choose to be so miserable that you’ll twist anything to make it look like the U is failing. Secondly you talk about average point per player this isn’t a video game. PS2 is a great prospect but it’s not like he is guarantee success because someone thinks he’s a “98” overall. The point is that yes we missed on two big targets but this class has more than enough talent in this that if developed properly we can make the playoffs and compete w/ anybody. Thirdly what about guys like Mark pope and Brevan Jordan who many feel should have been 5 stars? You don’t consider that at all when bashing the U. Just seems like an epic spin job to trash the Canes and prompt us being destined for failure.

 

[Double]

This doesn't matter because Clemson has a championship level DC and an innovated offense.

 

[caneinpsl]

Why do people think we can recruit like Clemson and Bama, when we literally have never recruited like Clemson and Bama do right now? This class had our 2nd highest ever avg recruit ranking on 247. The only class we had that beat it was the 2005 class which was small (15 signees) and skewed by having 3 5-stars in it. 2 of which never panned out. If we can recruit at the talent level of this years class we will be able to compete with anybody on the field. The failure isn't that we didn't get enough talent. It's that we are shorthanded at specific positions. We should be able to fix that over a few classes. Sorry, but we aren't ever gonna have a year where we sign 7 5-stars like Georgia did this year. We still have to rely on the same MO we always have. Get the S Fla kids that don't quite corral the respect the should at a national level that are gonna play with a chip on their shoulder.

 

[canesbaby]

Clemson won the national championship because of Deshaun Watson. They had the #1 D-line this year and lost 24-6 to alabama. One of our QBs panout and we will be in good shape.

Good point.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Why do people think we can recruit like Clemson and Bama, when we literally have never recruited like Clemson and Bama do right now? This class had our 2nd highest ever avg recruit ranking on 247. The only class we had that beat it was the 2005 class which was small (15 signees) and skewed by having 3 5-stars in it. 2 of which never panned out. If we can recruit at the talent level of this years class we will be able to compete with anybody on the field. The failure isn't that we didn't get enough talent. It's that we are shorthanded at specific positions. We should be able to fix that over a few classes. Sorry, but we aren't ever gonna have a year where we sign 7 5-stars like Georgia did this year. We still have to rely on the same MO we always have. Get the S Fla kids that don't quite corral the respect the should at a national level that are gonna play with a chip on their shoulder.

Best post I've read in the last several days. The U is not and has NEVER been the destination for front runners. Miami is the little school that did slay the giant and will again. We need kids that bleed Orange and Green whom want to build something great with their own hands. Kids that wanna play for the city and the school and their home.

The kid below is what we need. The Pat Jr's and Tyson Campbell's of the world want to be front runners and all they are interested in is moving along in 3-4 years just like they said. Nesta is in it for 30-40 years.......

 

[DerekDohrman]

best wr in the country, pope.
best rb in the country, lingard.
best OL in the country, Scaife.
best FB in the country, Realus.
the TWO best TE in the country, Mallery & Brevin.
best safety in the country, gurvan hall.
best DT in the country, Nesta.


and a plethora of studs everywhere else. i think only joyner at LB is a little wishy washy & our only reach is bethel.

room for improvement? sure. but, this isnt like past years where we'd whiff on 5 star DB talent and then have to settle for plan D. we still got TOP SHELF DB talent, that may very well end up outperforming the 2 local 5 stars that went to the SEC. & jobe is garbage, so he doesnt count. post his senior highlights if you disagree

 

[ShadowSpring]

DD hates him some Simple Jobe.

 

[DerekDohrman]

DD hates him some Simple Jobe.

guy's overrated. film dont lie