Full go with 3-4 Defense

[Rellyrell]

i just want to see more blitzes from the safeties and allow them to rove around. That blitz that was called on Bridgewater was perfect in the bowl game. A 3-4 can be flexed...it allows for aggression. But, if that aggression is not there, then it can be shredded.

 

[Canesfan1899]

You'll find 220-230lbs pass rushers to grow into 3-4 OLB's in south Florida no problem, but what about 315+ NT? Or 250ln ILB?

The ILB is going to be the issue IMO. Perryman is 240 now but will be gone and who is going to start next to him? Quarterman is a 2016 kid that fits the mold but he's not here for 2 years.

 

[FullyERicht]

From the Al quote, sounds like this team will be full time 3-4. Notice how there is no mention of AQM, Jackson, or Trent Harris as a DE's.

What has Golden seen out of the defensive line?

"Just deeper and stronger. That's the deepest we've been - no question. You've got Anthony Chickillo, Ufomba Kamalu, Jelani Hamilton and Chad Thomas mixing it in at end. Then you've got Kamalu playing on the other side as well with Olsen Pierre, Anthony Moten and Corey King. Then inside we've got a lot of guys rotating in there at nose - Earl Moore, Calvin Heurtelou, Mike Wyche and Courtel Jenkins. We're getting a lot more speed on the field then we have."

Also this photo of Chad Thomas and Demetrius Jackson playing on the same side is more evidence.

This looks like
WDE Olsen Pierre
SDE Chad Thomas
SAM Demetrius Jackson
There is also a NT being blocked that I can't make out


I am actually very excited about this, it gets more speed on the field as well as more natural pass rushers.

The 3-4 absolutely does not get more speed on the field. It gets more size on the field; completely counterintuitive to South Florida football.

South Florida football actually is the perfect breading ground for 3-4 DE's and OLB's. Every recruiting cycle there will be multiple undersized DE's in South Florida that are still explosive and very fast, the same is true for undersized DT's in South Florida.

Converting guys from undersized DT to 3-4 DE (Anthony Moten) or converting undersized a DE to a 3-4 OLB (Mike Smith, Demetrius Jackson) will always be a option in South Florida.

Except that when you push guys up like that, you lose speed. Guys like Moten and Kamalu and Chick are quick DTs. On the edge? Their quickness is moot.

Chad, AQM, McCord, and Jackson are explosive and fast DEs. As OLBs charged with coverage responsibilities?? Their speed is moot.

30 years ago JJ introduced this concept of taking smaller and moving them closer to the LOS. Safeties became OLBs, OLBs became DEs, DEs became D tackles. He then invented a concept called "spilling" where these smaller players weren't asked to hold their ground against kick out blocks, but violently attack these blocks, building up a wall on the LOS. This forced the ball carrier to have to run to the edge where they were greeted by a group of extremely fast players chasing them down. This concept became labeled "swarming defense".

The use of undersized players allowed for the defense to move, as a unit, faster than their offensive counterparts.

The complete opposite of this is bumping guys away from the LOS. If Jimmy's concept put more speed on the field, and Goldens is the opposite, how can you say his defense puts more speed on the field????

 

[RiDLer80]

Chad Thomas is not a 3-4 DE.

I feel very strongly about this.

He should be playing the AQM/McCord-Jack LB role.

 

[ProjectMKUltra5]

From the Al quote, sounds like this team will be full time 3-4. Notice how there is no mention of AQM, Jackson, or Trent Harris as a DE's.

What has Golden seen out of the defensive line?

"Just deeper and stronger. That's the deepest we've been - no question. You've got Anthony Chickillo, Ufomba Kamalu, Jelani Hamilton and Chad Thomas mixing it in at end. Then you've got Kamalu playing on the other side as well with Olsen Pierre, Anthony Moten and Corey King. Then inside we've got a lot of guys rotating in there at nose - Earl Moore, Calvin Heurtelou, Mike Wyche and Courtel Jenkins. We're getting a lot more speed on the field then we have."

Also this photo of Chad Thomas and Demetrius Jackson playing on the same side is more evidence.

This looks like
WDE Olsen Pierre
SDE Chad Thomas
SAM Demetrius Jackson
There is also a NT being blocked that I can't make out


I am actually very excited about this, it gets more speed on the field as well as more natural pass rushers.

The 3-4 absolutely does not get more speed on the field. It gets more size on the field; completely counterintuitive to South Florida football.

South Florida football actually is the perfect breading ground for 3-4 DE's and OLB's. Every recruiting cycle there will be multiple undersized DE's in South Florida that are still explosive and very fast, the same is true for undersized DT's in South Florida.

Converting guys from undersized DT to 3-4 DE (Anthony Moten) or converting undersized a DE to a 3-4 OLB (Mike Smith, Demetrius Jackson) will always be a option in South Florida.

Except that when you push guys up like that, you lose speed. Guys like Moten and Kamalu and Chick are quick DTs. On the edge? Their quickness is moot.

Chad, AQM, McCord, and Jackson are explosive and fast DEs. As OLBs charged with coverage responsibilities?? Their speed is moot.

30 years ago JJ introduced this concept of taking smaller and moving them closer to the LOS. Safeties became OLBs, OLBs became DEs, DEs became D tackles. He then invented a concept called "spilling" where these smaller players weren't asked to hold their ground against kick out blocks, but violently attack these blocks, building up a wall on the LOS. This forced the ball carrier to have to run to the edge where they were greeted by a group of extremely fast players chasing them down. This concept became labeled "swarming defense".

The use of undersized players allowed for the defense to move, as a unit, faster than their offensive counterparts.

The complete opposite of this is bumping guys away from the LOS. If Jimmy's concept put more speed on the field, and Goldens is the opposite, how can you say his defense puts more speed on the field????

3-4 doesn't really put more speed on the field. You swap a lineman for a backer so it might appear so but those backers need to then take on lineman so they need to be bigger and stronger guys. It's more about causing confusion with the blitz and not knowing who is coming.

 

[ProjectMKUltra5]

Chad Thomas is not a 3-4 DE.

I feel very strongly about this.

He should be playing the AQM/McCord-Jack LB role.

He could play that roll, but he is a 3-4 end. If he gains 20 pounds (which isn't at all unreasonable) then he sits at 270. Not all 3-4 are the same. While some asked to just take up space others do it get up field more, it's the same reason JJ Watt can get 15+ sacks in a season.

 

[RiDLer80]

Chad Thomas is not a 3-4 DE.

I feel very strongly about this.

He should be playing the AQM/McCord-Jack LB role.

He could play that roll, but he is a 3-4 end. If he gains 20 pounds (which isn't at all unreasonable) then he sits at 270. Not all 3-4 are the same. While some asked to just take up space others do it get up field more, it's the same reason JJ Watt can get 15+ sacks in a season.

Thomas is more Clowney than Watt. And they have Clowney at OLB not DE

 

[rudebuddha]

Said this in another thread today..the excuses for this defense are officially over this year. Dno has EVERY piece to the puzzle that he needs. Hes got WDEs/SDEs/athletic Jacks/Big hitting safeties/CBs who can cover on an island/OLBs with the speed to drop in coverage....****..even Earl "no neck" Moore looks like he can be servicable at NG when Hertolou and Wyche need a rest. The puzzle is finished. The core guys all know the scheme to a tee..They all look big as ****..and from what we have been hearing, they are all really confident.

I dont mind running this defense. I know we look at FSU after they won the title and see a defense that basically should be the exact same thing we should be running..but its all relative. When ALA was winning back to back titles and destroying everybody.. we all wanted the BIG linebackers and DEs..Saying our guys looked like JV kids compared to theres and "how we needed to adjust to the modern college game. The days of 215lb linebackers are over." (That was said MANY times on this board.) But now that FSU trotted not one but TWO 215-220lbs out there and they dominated, now we all want their defense again..

My point is it doesnt matter what defense we run. We have the players to run whatever the **** we want. Now its time for the coaches to coach and the players to play.

Using small speed linebackers works when you have guys like Jernigan and Goldman up front.

Unfortunately our DT's last year were blocking sleds, and our linebackers were having to shed blocks instead of running free.

 

[Geo305]

I think Chad is versatile. Could see him excelling as a 4-3 end, 3-4 end or a rusher linebacker in the 3-4. Think he's a freak.

 

[jerzeycane]

Chad Thomas is not a 3-4 DE.

I feel very strongly about this.

He should be playing the AQM/McCord-Jack LB role.

He could play that roll, but he is a 3-4 end. If he gains 20 pounds (which isn't at all unreasonable) then he sits at 270. Not all 3-4 are the same. While some asked to just take up space others do it get up field more, it's the same reason JJ Watt can get 15+ sacks in a season.

Thomas is more Clowney than Watt. And they have Clowney at OLB not DE

Cuz he's black?

Other than that...no he isn't

 

[Disgustipated]

Chad Thomas will be a straight hand in the dirt DE in the Golden/Donofrio system. He will most likely be a 1 gapper this year to just grip it and rip it. Pierre and Hamilton will be the strong side 2 gappers, manning tackles up. I foresee Thomas growing to be a 280 lb nightmare at some point. Either way, This system is perfect for him.

 

[ProjectMKUltra5]

Chad Thomas is not a 3-4 DE.

I feel very strongly about this.

He should be playing the AQM/McCord-Jack LB role.

He could play that roll, but he is a 3-4 end. If he gains 20 pounds (which isn't at all unreasonable) then he sits at 270. Not all 3-4 are the same. While some asked to just take up space others do it get up field more, it's the same reason JJ Watt can get 15+ sacks in a season.

Thomas is more Clowney than Watt. And they have Clowney at OLB not DE

I saw a Texans depth chart last night and they actually have him has the Jack, but your point still stands. I think he just a really versatile player, I wouldn't have a problem if they played him as rusher like that but he's got the goods to hold the point and still get after the QB as a end.