Full go with 3-4 Defense

[dg151]

What the **** defense did you all think we ran last year?

 

[dg151]

And the misunderstanding of Chad's game is going to so annoying over the next few years.

 

[drifters1234]

Can we all agree this is the most talented we have been in the interior d line since their first year here?

That was the mantra last year with a healthy Porter and an experienced Pierre and Robinson.

sooooo....is it or is it not the most talent?

We have no idea, just as we did not last year, notwithstanding all the sunshine blowing we get from practices in shells.

I'll reserve judgment on how much interior DT talent we have - and more importantly how Donofrio uses it - until the Louisville game.

 

[Canesfan1899]

From the Al quote, sounds like this team will be full time 3-4. Notice how there is no mention of AQM, Jackson, or Trent Harris as a DE's.

What has Golden seen out of the defensive line?

"Just deeper and stronger. That's the deepest we've been - no question. You've got Anthony Chickillo, Ufomba Kamalu, Jelani Hamilton and Chad Thomas mixing it in at end. Then you've got Kamalu playing on the other side as well with Olsen Pierre, Anthony Moten and Corey King. Then inside we've got a lot of guys rotating in there at nose - Earl Moore, Calvin Heurtelou, Mike Wyche and Courtel Jenkins. We're getting a lot more speed on the field then we have."

Also this photo of Chad Thomas and Demetrius Jackson playing on the same side is more evidence.

This looks like
WDE Olsen Pierre
SDE Chad Thomas
SAM Demetrius Jackson
There is also a NT being blocked that I can't make out


I am actually very excited about this, it gets more speed on the field as well as more natural pass rushers.

The 3-4 absolutely does not get more speed on the field. It gets more size on the field; completely counterintuitive to South Florida football.

South Florida football actually is the perfect breading ground for 3-4 DE's and OLB's. Every recruiting cycle there will be multiple undersized DE's in South Florida that are still explosive and very fast, the same is true for undersized DT's in South Florida.

Converting guys from undersized DT to 3-4 DE (Anthony Moten) or converting undersized a DE to a 3-4 OLB (Mike Smith, Demetrius Jackson) will always be a option in South Florida.

I agree with you here and agree with Jhall about McCord needing to take the next step at OLB, he's the kind of undersized 4-3 DE that could be lethal as 3-4 OLB if used properly.

 

[RiDLer80]

From the Al quote, sounds like this team will be full time 3-4. Notice how there is no mention of AQM, Jackson, or Trent Harris as a DE's.

What has Golden seen out of the defensive line?

"Just deeper and stronger. That's the deepest we've been - no question. You've got Anthony Chickillo, Ufomba Kamalu, Jelani Hamilton and Chad Thomas mixing it in at end. Then you've got Kamalu playing on the other side as well with Olsen Pierre, Anthony Moten and Corey King. Then inside we've got a lot of guys rotating in there at nose - Earl Moore, Calvin Heurtelou, Mike Wyche and Courtel Jenkins. We're getting a lot more speed on the field then we have."

Also this photo of Chad Thomas and Demetrius Jackson playing on the same side is more evidence.

This looks like
WDE Olsen Pierre
SDE Chad Thomas
SAM Demetrius Jackson
There is also a NT being blocked that I can't make out


I am actually very excited about this, it gets more speed on the field as well as more natural pass rushers.

The 3-4 absolutely does not get more speed on the field. It gets more size on the field; completely counterintuitive to South Florida football.

South Florida football actually is the perfect breading ground for 3-4 DE's and OLB's. Every recruiting cycle there will be multiple undersized DE's in South Florida that are still explosive and very fast, the same is true for undersized DT's in South Florida.

Converting guys from undersized DT to 3-4 DE (Anthony Moten) or converting undersized a DE to a 3-4 OLB (Mike Smith, Demetrius Jackson) will always be a option in South Florida.

I agree about the undersized DEs like Mike Smith and Jackson being great options for 3-4 OLBs. But I completely disagree with undersized DTs being good 3-4 DEs. Undersized DTs in 4-3s tend to be too short and maybe underweight for a 3-4 DE. Undersized 4-3 DTs are guys like Deadrin Senat (6' 280-290 lbs). His weight is in the right range (280-310) but he isn't long enough to control the man in front of him. That's what's needed in 3-4 DEs; length.

Also to the guys saying the 3-4 gets more speed on the field I completely disagree. The 3-4 pretty much as 3 DTs on the field with 2 DEs playing LB and 2 true LBs. Versus a 4-3 that has 2 DTs, 2 DEs and 3 true LBs.

Which base front do you guys think would be faster?

3-4

Pierre-Wyche-Chick
AQM-Perryman-Kirby-McCord

4-3
AQM-Chick-Wyche-McCord
Grace-Perryman-Kirby

 

[HurricaneU]

I think its good to remember that terms such as "DE", "DT", etc. are just labels. I find it better to think of assignments and requisite skill sets.

In today's game, pre-snap looks are often just as, if not more important, than the actual play. Overloaded fronts, single down linemen, zone blitzing, etc. and the ability to effectively mask your defensive plan for that play.

We know the defense not working. But I think we are getting too hung up on what are really labels of convenience.

 

[dycane]

I think its good to remember that terms such as "DE", "DT", etc. are just labels. I find it better to think of assignments and requisite skill sets.

In today's game, pre-snap looks are often just as, if not more important, than the actual play. Overloaded fronts, single down linemen, zone blitzing, etc. and the ability to effectively mask your defensive plan for that play.

We know the defense not working. But I think we are getting too hung up on what are really labels of convenience.

Agreed. I think the average fan would laugh at the suggestion that almost every, if not every, NFL team uses the 3-4 to some extent. But it's true. And as the NFL continues to move towards a pass-happy, flag football league, the value of hybrid front seven players and those with experience in multiple-front defenses will only increase. We just need a guy who can corch it properly and simply.

 

[Hstokes1447]

From the Al quote, sounds like this team will be full time 3-4. Notice how there is no mention of AQM, Jackson, or Trent Harris as a DE's.

What has Golden seen out of the defensive line?

"Just deeper and stronger. That's the deepest we've been - no question. You've got Anthony Chickillo, Ufomba Kamalu, Jelani Hamilton and Chad Thomas mixing it in at end. Then you've got Kamalu playing on the other side as well with Olsen Pierre, Anthony Moten and Corey King. Then inside we've got a lot of guys rotating in there at nose - Earl Moore, Calvin Heurtelou, Mike Wyche and Courtel Jenkins. We're getting a lot more speed on the field then we have."

Also this photo of Chad Thomas and Demetrius Jackson playing on the same side is more evidence.

This looks like
WDE Olsen Pierre
SDE Chad Thomas
SAM Demetrius Jackson
There is also a NT being blocked that I can't make out


I am actually very excited about this, it gets more speed on the field as well as more natural pass rushers.

The 3-4 absolutely does not get more speed on the field. It gets more size on the field; completely counterintuitive to South Florida football.

South Florida football actually is the perfect breading ground for 3-4 DE's and OLB's. Every recruiting cycle there will be multiple undersized DE's in South Florida that are still explosive and very fast, the same is true for undersized DT's in South Florida.

Converting guys from undersized DT to 3-4 DE (Anthony Moten) or converting undersized a DE to a 3-4 OLB (Mike Smith, Demetrius Jackson) will always be a option in South Florida.

I agree about the undersized DEs like Mike Smith and Jackson being great options for 3-4 OLBs. But I completely disagree with undersized DTs being good 3-4 DEs. Undersized DTs in 4-3s tend to be too short and maybe underweight for a 3-4 DE. Undersized 4-3 DTs are guys like Deadrin Senat (6' 280-290 lbs). His weight is in the right range (280-310) but he isn't long enough to control the man in front of him. That's what's needed in 3-4 DEs; length.

Also to the guys saying the 3-4 gets more speed on the field I completely disagree. The 3-4 pretty much as 3 DTs on the field with 2 DEs playing LB and 2 true LBs. Versus a 4-3 that has 2 DTs, 2 DEs and 3 true LBs.

Which base front do you guys think would be faster?

3-4

Pierre-Wyche-Chick
AQM-Perryman-Kirby-McCord

4-3
AQM-Chick-Wyche-McCord
Grace-Perryman-Kirby

Length is only necessary for 1 DE in the 3-4 system. Actually the way the 3-4 is ran by most successful teams the SDE is long and the weak DE is more like a traditional DT. So the line up looks more like 2 DT's, 1 true DE, 1 hybrid DE/OLD and 3 traditional LB's.

Baltimore Ravens
WDE Brandon Williams 6-1 335
SDE Chris Canty 6-7 315

49ers
WDE Ray McDonald 6-3 290
SDE Justin Smith 6-4 285

Now lets look at the South Florida undersized DT's that Miami has went after over the past few years.

2013
Jaynard Bostwick 6-4 291
Keith Bryant 6-2 303

2014
Anthony Moten 6-4 292
Demarcus Christmas 6-3 286

2015
Richard McIntosh, Jr. 6-4 260

 

[HurricaneU]

I think its good to remember that terms such as "DE", "DT", etc. are just labels. I find it better to think of assignments and requisite skill sets.

In today's game, pre-snap looks are often just as, if not more important, than the actual play. Overloaded fronts, single down linemen, zone blitzing, etc. and the ability to effectively mask your defensive plan for that play.

We know the defense not working. But I think we are getting too hung up on what are really labels of convenience.

Agreed. I think the average fan would laugh at the suggestion that almost every, if not every, NFL team uses the 3-4 to some extent. But it's true. And as the NFL continues to move towards a pass-happy, flag football league, the value of hybrid front seven players and those with experience in multiple-front defenses will only increase. We just need a guy who can corch it properly and simply.

Yep. Without solid corching, you can have 12 men on defense and still fail.

 

[2Focusd804]

You'll find 220-230lbs pass rushers to grow into 3-4 OLB's in south Florida no problem, but what about 315+ NT? Or 250ln ILB?

 

[M3N]

We had enough talent last year to not give up 500 a game...

Are we more talented then last year? Yes definitely, but I can't really see this team being top 25 defensively. The last 3 years is a large enough sample size to judge what kind of outcome this year will bring.

On a side note: IDGAF what we run!! Just play solid sound defense.

 

[dg151]

You'll find 220-230lbs pass rushers to grow into 3-4 OLB's in south Florida no problem, but what about 315+ NT? Or 250ln ILB?

There are barely any 250+ pound LBs that play off the LOS anywhere in football.

 

[Biscuits]

I am not optimistic.

 

[dg151]

Which base front do you guys think would be faster?

3-4

Pierre-Wyche-Chick
AQM-Perryman-Kirby-McCord

4-3
AQM-Chick-Wyche-McCord
Grace-Perryman-Kirby

That 4-3 would get destroyed in the run game.

 

[japancane]

play a 10-1 for all I care, just stop someone, please

 

[Consigliere]

play a 10-1 for all I care, just stop someone, please

I prefer a 1-10.

 

[z28tranz]

Having our front 7 be flexible, smart and dynamic will be the biggest factor. If they can keep these guys fresh and rotate them to match the offensive set. Make adjustments on the fly and hit with intensity!

 

[ProjectMKUltra5]

play a 10-1 for all I care, just stop someone, please

I prefer a 1-10.

Let's go with the 7 diamond defense. We can bring it back.

 

[Jassid82]

Having our front 7 be flexible, smart and dynamic will be the biggest factor. If they can keep these guys fresh and rotate them to match the offensive set. Make adjustments on the fly and hit with intensity!

The only thing that is going to **** me off about all these flexible fronts and adjusting parts and moving engines yada yada yada is when we play teams like UL and FSU who will go no huddle, quick snap on us and then we look like a bunch of clowns running guys on and off the sidelines, causing stupid timeouts and too many men on the field penalties. If we run into a team thats just gonna sit back and let us adjust our lineups we will be fine. But Jameis Winston/Jimbo Fisher and even Petrino and whoever his QB is gonna be will run that **** right outta here...Look at what OU did to ALA in the BCS Bowl with all that defensive adjusting mid series.

I just want to get to a point to where we have 11 guys on the field and we can adjust to a 3-4/4-3 or nickel package with the 11 guys that are out there. Thats when I will know that Dno and Al have this defense thing on lock.

 

[z28tranz]

Having our front 7 be flexible, smart and dynamic will be the biggest factor. If they can keep these guys fresh and rotate them to match the offensive set. Make adjustments on the fly and hit with intensity!

The only thing that is going to **** me off about all these flexible fronts and adjusting parts and moving engines yada yada yada is when we play teams like UL and FSU who will go no huddle, quick snap on us and then we look like a bunch of clowns running guys on and off the sidelines, causing stupid timeouts and too many men on the field penalties. If we run into a team thats just gonna sit back and let us adjust our lineups we will be fine. But Jameis Winston/Jimbo Fisher and even Petrino and whoever his QB is gonna be will run that **** right outta here...Look at what OU did to ALA in the BCS Bowl with all that defensive adjusting mid series.

I just want to get to a point to where we have 11 guys on the field and we can adjust to a 3-4/4-3 or nickel package with the 11 guys that are out there. Thats when I will know that Dno and Al have this defense thing on lock.

I totally agree with this. When we face teams who run a no-huddle or up tempo offense, that is something that the coaches have to address during practice. They have to put our players in a position to succeed and have them prepared for everything that may come their way. With our talent on D we will really find out if Coach D is right for our program!