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For those who say we need an "offensive coach"
- Thread starter DMoney
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College football is about talent. more so than the NFL. It why coaches become god Like in college and not in the NFL.
The teams you have listed are the best recruiting teams in the country (year in and year out) and have the most depth of any teams in the country. The teams with the fewest holes. If you get any coach who does not have the ability to turn SFL recruiting in our favor so we have no more holes then you lose.
You will never compete with those teams on the field unless you can pull in the same caliber of players they do. if you pull in Herman and he isn't able to get the kids he needs then we will lose when it comes to playing those teams.
If you doubt me go run the averages on the numbers you just posted on top.
Avg O from above 10.5
Avd D from above 9.75
In the same breath you point out it only takes defense you also show how important offense is as well.
Its about talent guys... Its college football. Its always been about talent.
Gatorhater
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But, four of them were won by Butch Davis recruits. Dennis' "cutting edge" offense wasn't worth a crap once we ran out of Butch's players. I assume the other one is Larry and the reason he won an NC does not need to be explained.
Howard stands alone. He brought the pro set offense to college when almost everyone was running some some form of option. NE had no answer for Miami's speed but if was Howard defense that held NE's offense to about 1/2 of what they were use to scoring. Howard, JJ, Dennis, and Larry, all won HCs with great balance between offense and defense. Miami's offenses have all tended to score with big plays and be a little weak in short yardage and goal line(except for TEs). Our defenses have always contributed their own points and set up offenses with turnovers. And our Special Teams were always tops. I want Butch because there is no evidence we can win another NC without his recruiting and he will return us to our old defenses. Special Teams need to be address but Al being gone and Butch's recruits will help out there(base on THE RETURN, maybe just losing Al will help). We can win with different offenses as long as they do not degrade our defense. So first we must address the defense.
drifters1234
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It's not "always talent." We've had a lot of talent over the last few years, particularly last year. But we had coaches that minimized that talent. That's why we ended up 6-7 last year, and this season almost blew a game to a terrible Nebraska team, played underwhelming football against FAU, and got blownout by Clemson.
Bottom line: coaching matters.
Cane Dynasty
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Gorlden won 6 games last year with the 2nd most talented team in his conference.
It's not just about talent.
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NVA CANE
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This. I want a great coach someone that does more with less. It's why I like Fuente. He's done a masterful job at Menphis. Would love Herman also.
Gatorhater
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I agree. Although Al proved that bad coaching can crush the Jimmies and the Joes with misuse. Coaching remains important. Still if you have Butch Davis recruiting, well that takes care of a load of crap. Not only will he get us the best players, but the other schools will be chasing him around offering EVERYONE he does. Who wants to miss the next Ed Reed. Heck, Butch can set up an disinformation room by making offers to mislead other schools into taking chumps. You can bet money that if Butch get this job, NFL teams will be renting condos with clear views of Greentree for their scouts.
terdferguson
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Thanks for the post dmoney, love to see stats like this. A couple observations:
1. Let's look at the average of the offenses and defenses for all the champions you listed. The average for the offense is 10.6. The average for the defenses is 9.75. A negligible difference. The takeaway here from these stats is that neither offensive or defensive prowess is more important. Almost every champ listed is good at both. Based on these stats alone we should not favor hiring a defensive guru over an offensive one, or vice versa.
2. While yards per play has its place, the fact that Miami is 10th in the country in this stat under Golden really undermines its usefulness. We all know that our offense has not performed anywhere close to that over the last 5 years. Other important stats such as third down conversion and red zone are probably what blow this up. Due to poor third down conversions, we've been terrible at sustaining drives. However with the talent on offense such as Coley, Dorsett, Duke, etc we've generated some huge plays. So it's a lot of short 3 and out type drives mixed in with 60 yard td passes or runs. That is going to skew yards per play big time.
I favor hiring an offensive guru. Not because of the stats above (as they favor neither one or the other), but because we're coming off of 10 years of being ruled by conservative defensive coaches. Time for a change. We also need to re-energize our fanbase. One of these guys throwing up 50 points a game is going to whip the fans into a frenzy. Recruits too.
edit: just noticed that clg003 beat me to it on the averages
1. Let's look at the average of the offenses and defenses for all the champions you listed. The average for the offense is 10.6. The average for the defenses is 9.75. A negligible difference. The takeaway here from these stats is that neither offensive or defensive prowess is more important. Almost every champ listed is good at both. Based on these stats alone we should not favor hiring a defensive guru over an offensive one, or vice versa.
2. While yards per play has its place, the fact that Miami is 10th in the country in this stat under Golden really undermines its usefulness. We all know that our offense has not performed anywhere close to that over the last 5 years. Other important stats such as third down conversion and red zone are probably what blow this up. Due to poor third down conversions, we've been terrible at sustaining drives. However with the talent on offense such as Coley, Dorsett, Duke, etc we've generated some huge plays. So it's a lot of short 3 and out type drives mixed in with 60 yard td passes or runs. That is going to skew yards per play big time.
I favor hiring an offensive guru. Not because of the stats above (as they favor neither one or the other), but because we're coming off of 10 years of being ruled by conservative defensive coaches. Time for a change. We also need to re-energize our fanbase. One of these guys throwing up 50 points a game is going to whip the fans into a frenzy. Recruits too.
edit: just noticed that clg003 beat me to it on the averages
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We do get lots of talent but this isn't basketball you need a ton. The teams above have tons of talent. if you have wholes then your defense breaks. If you have 3 good Olineman but the other ones suck *** then you don't have an OL. If you have a 5 * LB and he gets hurt and then you bring in a walk on then you aint chit.
People always want to point out the 7 or 8 guys we had drafted. **** go look at our championship teams and compare those talent levels to our recent teams.
Why do we try and trick ourselves into not seeing the obvious?
Its about talent and in Miami we have best pool to pull from in the country. Any option that doesn't take full advantage of that is a huge risk and most likely a losing approach and not the approach for Miami.
Our next coach has to be able to make a splash big enough to shift the tides back to us.
If we need a DT and there a 4 5* DT in SFL then we need to get 2-3 of them. Not miss on all of them and then take the injured 4 * that no one else really wants that bad.
Any competent coach who comes in here and puts a fence up is going to be able to do whatever they want and have both a great O and a great D.
I want a top coach in the country who changes every kids mind in SFL that's considering going elsewhere.
I mean what would the NFL be if guys could just go to whatever team they wanted? You think there would still be parity?
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We had more wholes on that team than swiss cheese.
Our Offense was pretty solid but we had a freshman QB running it. Our defense was porous at best. A couple of studs and nothing else.
CaneSince4Ever
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[MENTION=2]DMoney[/MENTION]...defensively, something else you have to look at, is opponents average time of possession. IE, Baylor's defense is on the field for an average of 34:39 a game, but they only give up 4.9 YPP, and 395 YPG. Not bad for a defense that's on the field 3/4s of the game.
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Yet none of those "great" defenses were truly great defenses. Great defenses used to hold teams to 9 points. When people tell you the game has changed and that it's an offensive game just look at how the defensive numbers sharply declined recently. No one is holding teams to 9 points per game.
Now, look at offensive numbers and how they've skyrocketed recently. If you can't see that change then you're not looking because you're **** bent on a heel dig to get your defense mantra over. The game has changed dramatically over the last ten years.
Take your Bama defenses for example. If you try to line up and play power football with them you make them look great. Look at how they mangle your traditional old time line up and smash it at em offenses.
Same thing every year with Bama. Then, when they face a diverse offense that spreads then out and negates their brute power and tests their coverage they don't look like a great defense. They've been carved up regularly by spread offenses that run and can throw the ball. Not so much when you line up and play into their strength.
No one with a shred of intelligence is arguing that UM should ignore defense so I don't know why you're so **** bent on proving that defense is important. Of course it is. No one has argued otherwise.
All that most of us are saying is that you're not going to dominate football on that side of the ball anymore. You get some key stops, you play good 3rd down D, and you force turnovers. No one is suffocating anyone with defense anymore.
No one smart wants a guy like Kingsbury, who fields teams that don't even tackle. And no one smart wants a guy who is clueless offensively.
I would prefer an offensive whiz because that's the hardest thing to build and to keep humming if you lose a coordinator. I also want to be able to face a team that might have more talent that year like an Alabama or Ohio State or FSU and be able to equalize things with a high octane offense. Those offenses were built to negate the talent advantage that some teams have.
No one has given me a good argument against Gary Patterson and his choice to join the high octane offense ranks. That dude is a genius in my book and certainly way more football astute than any of us on here. That guy was all about the defense first approach his whole career. He actually came out and said in an interview "if you can't beat em join em" when he opted to start spreading it out and throwing more.
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My stats matter more than yours. No, mine are more valid. Wrong, you're both wrong, etc.
Stats only tell part of the story. I'll use my eyes and what they're telling me is that we sucked on both sides of the ball under Golden and are a long way from good or even elite.
Stats only tell part of the story. I'll use my eyes and what they're telling me is that we sucked on both sides of the ball under Golden and are a long way from good or even elite.
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dedostheibis
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Anybody with half a brain knows defense is our biggest issue. When miami was great we had a dominating defense and dominating defensive line. That simple
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Which is why yards per play remains the most accurate measure of defensive effectiveness. Ten years ago, Miami led the nation in defensive yards per play at 3.8. This year, Michigan leads the nation in defensive yards per play at 3.8. Everybody in between fell in the same general area.
'05- Miami (3.8)
'06- Virginia Tech (3.7)
'07-Ohio State (3.5)
'08- USC (3.5)
'09- Texas (3.7)
'10- Boise State (3.9)
'11- Alabama (3.0)
'12- Alabama (4.0)
'13- FSU (3.9)
'14- Clemson (4.0)
'15- Michigan (3.8)
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I don't get this argument . 9 of the 12 offenses were top 10. 9 of the 12 defenses were top 10.
What was proven? Those teams had good offenses and good defenses. And all had the best talent , majority had the best coach. So what did we figure out?
Great talent with majority of the teams having great coaching. Wow.
Pretty deep stuff.
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Talked to a TCU "insider". Patterson is not going to leave TCU anytime soon. Helps base salary is around $4 million, but he also gets royalties from some oil & gas properties owned by TCU, which probably pushes his overall compensation to close to $6 million per year. In addition, he and his wife just built a mansion next to TCU. His wife is from TX.
I would love to get a John Harbaugh, Patterson, etc, but $4 million is not going to cut it.
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Look at how our offense stacks up compared to our defense. One is at a comparable level to the top teams. One is miles behind. That will probably surprise some people.
Of course, some will say this is just cherry-picking one stat. But the more you look into yards-per-play, the more you will appreciate its accuracy in measuring effectiveness.
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His defense seems to be very stingy thus far. Even when they struggled at the beginning of the UCF game the defense kept UCF off the board and then the offense turned it on and it was another blow out.
I realize Herman is doing this at a second tier school and people are anxious because we took Golden from a second tier conference and people don't want to make that mistake again. Herman seems to be the anti Golden IMO. He's aggressive, won a title as an OC, learned from one of the best college coaches in the game, and seems to have that killer instinct we haven't seen here in over a decade.
Flrcane
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I'd be more curious how our 5 national championship teams plus some of the elite teams that just missed out (86, 88, 00, 02) fared in this yards per play analysis. While those offenses were always dynamic and filled with quick strike players, it always started with the dominant defenses.
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