forums

For those who say we need an "offensive coach"

Canez1 said:
I was going to post about defensive minded coaches but work kept getting in the way. If you look at our history of success and failure minus Golden and Randy because they were both in over their heads, defensive minded coaches have come in and laid the solid foundation for winning championships followed by offensive minded coaches that have returned things to rubble.
Click to expand...

Huh?

Howard was an offensive guy. Out of 5 NCs, 4 were won with HCs with an offensive background.
 
Advertisement
DiegoCane said:
DMoney said:
01Canes said:
People can question those campaigning for an offensive-minded hire like Herman.
Click to expand...

Houston is actually 17th in both offensive and defensive yards per play. That balance is one of the reasons I'm so high on Herman.
Click to expand...

Golden had the 10th ranked offense and 15th ranked defense last year.
Click to expand...

Which is why I used a five-year sample in the OP. The results speak for themselves.

Look at the teams above us in yards per play. They are considered the best offenses of the past five years. The defenses are the same story. The Top 5 is Alabama, FSU, UF, LSU and Michigan State. The exact teams you'd expect.

Yards per play is much more accurate measurement than traditional stats. In this case, it confirms what my eyes tell me: that this offense would look a lot better if it wasn't attached to a historically bad defense.
 
DMoney said:
01Canes said:
People can question those campaigning for an offensive-minded hire like Herman.
Click to expand...

Houston is actually 17th in both offensive and defensive yards per play. That balance is one of the reasons I'm so high on Herman.
Click to expand...

It seems you like Butch, Herman, and Strong the most based on your recent posts. Are they your top 3 seemingly realistic choices, assuming Hue Jackson's not going to be in the picture since the year he's having in Cincinnati will likely set him up for NFL head-coaching opportunities?
 
The offense was bad last year and was attached to a statically good unit (they weren't good but stats at times can be deceiving).

Both units are broken. Good coaching will turn around each unit quickly.
 
Advertisement
01Canes said:
It seems you like Butch, Herman, and Strong the most based on your recent posts. Are they your top 3 choices, assuming Hue Jackson's not going to be in the picture since the year he's having in Cincinnati will likely set him up for NFL head-coaching opportunities?
Click to expand...

Yes. Butch gives us a proven process at a time when we can't afford failure. Strong is similar to Butch but I have less faith in his ability to assemble a staff. Herman just seems like the next Urban Meyer with his overall approach, from the offense to recruiting.

I'd rank them Butch, Herman and then Strong.
 
Yards per play is much more accurate measurement than traditional stats. In this case, it confirms what my eyes tell me: that this offense would look a lot better if it wasn't attached to a historically bad defense.

Disagree completely, Yard per play first of all is an average derived from total yards per game which directly correlates to several different factors with one being the style of offense and defense you play. Two being level of competition. three being in game score. All of these will affect yards per play in every game the team plays.
Miami offense has padded stats on cupcakes, gets chunk yardage on deep routes, and is notorious under Golden for disappearing for two-three quarters of a game. None of which can be attributed to the horrid defense we play. If anything our defensive stats would look better if our offense could sustain drives and run the clock instead of getting so many three and outs.
 
Last edited:
DMoney said:
Yards per play is one of my favorite stats.
Click to expand...

Sp glad you brought that up.

Did you know that butch Davis @ UNC was 36th in ypp on offense and 33rd in ypp given up on defense, even with all the suspensions to his studs in 2010?

Butch Davis is a God.
 
Timcanes said:
Yeah Gene Chizik is elite, you're right.

Big Sky Cane said:
How about we stop making this about offense/defense and discuss the reality that we need an "elite" coach that can actually coach the game of football at a high level. All of those coaches (outside of Mack Brown) are considered elite coaches and programs. Half of the teams in your stats actually rated HIGHER in yard per play on offense VS. defense, so not really sure what your stat proves. Other than the fact that those teams were great on both....which all programs including ours should strive for.

The argument to bring in an offensive mind is with staff turnover, it's more difficult to maintain continuity and progress when you're changing offensive coordinators every couple years.....and there is no doubt the game has changed over the past decade. If your head man is an offensive mastermind, then that side of the ball will consistently keep you in games, even when the defense has an off day.

Guys comparing coaches like Chip, Herman and Urban to the likes of Mike Leach (who I admit is a terrible coach and does ignore that side of the ball) have just gone full ******.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

No but his OFFENSIVE coach is and he had a transformational player at the QB position.
 
Advertisement
OBLIVION said:
Patterson here would return to his days of being the #1 D. Guy would have more talent than he would know what to do with and would be killing teams with a high power offense.
Click to expand...

And even the "offensive minded" coaching guys would be estatic with a Gary Patterson hire. Why? Because he an elite level FOOTBALL coach.
 
DMoney said:
And this is not to say that an offensive coach can't build a great defense, or vice versa. But defense still wins championships.
Click to expand...

keep tellin these boys read my name, offense dont mean **** we r good enough. We need more impact players though on both sides
 
Jesus Christ another cherry-picked stat from the most off point Canes "expert" I've ever seen.

The offense is abysmal. The defense is abysmal. Get me an elite coach who can fix both, including firing every coach currently on staff, none of whom deserve to be here despite DMoney's desperate attempt to excuse Corley.

Oh, and Charlie Strong blows......just wanted to remind you.
 
Kinda ironic 8 of 9 years the best ypp defense are in the two worst offensive conferences . With the worst qb's and fewest uptempo offenses .

Shocking stat.

If you're playing the fewest uptempo offenses / spread offenses you'll have the fewest ypp. I'd be willing to bet there's a bunch of sec/ b10 teams in the top 30-40.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
Look ultimately it comes down to the following...

Who can take the talent...and organize it in a way that will beat people.

That's it.

Offensive coaches win, defensive coaches win. The reason the stats are the way they are is because to be champion you have to be good at all 3 phases. That's what it takes to be a championship team. It's not just defense. It's not just offense. It's not just special teams. It's all 3 phases of the game.

Guess what? If you play all 3 phases really well...you'll probably be champion. It's that simple.

Why are Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, FSU, us, Auburn etc. always considered programs that can be in the mix. (Obviously we haven't been there in a while, but everyone knows if we get our act together we will be)

Because we have talent. LSU is dripping with talent everywhere. So is Bama, so is Auburn, etc. etc. etc.

Man even Richt who is always winning like 10 games or something...why? because Georgia has tons of talent.

Teams that have huge offenses and do well are typically teams that don't have the talent to fill all three phases. They have enough for just 1 side of the ball. So they put all their eggs in 1 basket hoping to win.

Look at a team like Boston College that is all defense. They are 3-6. And they lead in just about every defensive category...

What really is the difference are the teams that can play great on all 3 sides with talent. That's the key.

An Offensive minded HC can win just as easily as a defensive minded HC.

What was Jimbo at the noles before he was HC.... an OC... what?!?! How could this be?!?? it's almost as if a Good HC will hire a good DC with a good budget and wow...they can win games...because when they have the talent for all 3 sides there is no excuse for not being good at all 3 phases.

When you are in talent deprived areas...sometimes you gotta go all in on something with the best players you have so you at least have SOMETHING that is good.

So don't give me this BS it HAS to be defensive minded...or it HAS to be offensive minded.

It just has to be a smart coach who knows how to get the most out of what he has. That's it. That's always the marker and judge.

Harbaugh gets the most out of his players... good coach.

Urban Meyer (another offensive assistant)...gets the most out of his players...good coach.

You know why we sucked with Golden? Because he got the least out of his players. He had the talent. We always have had talent, but we lost with him because despite being talented...he made things confusing...didn't know how to mold people to get the most out of them, and in the end shackled the players abilities in order to "Raising Canes" and all that BS.

I saw a video somewhere at practice and he's trying to talk to a player who was slow to move around and that fat goldilocks is shouting at him "Let's go Miami...Let's go Miami" like he doesn't even know who the player is and just general Miami talk is going to motivate him.

Great coaches come from all sides of the ball. If they are good at offense...get a good DC. Just like when we had Ericson..that worked out just fine. If they a good DC...get a good OC... It's not hard to do it, but Golden made it hard. So we don't need to say it has to be this..or it has to be that...

No. The requirements are.
- Have a clear vision.
- Bring the most out of the players
- Kick people's ***
- Hire good assistants that compliment what you want to do in all 3 phases

That's it. It's not rocket science.
 
With any stats you should take out games against non power 5 conference teams. Because we all know this offense typically does NOTHING vs a defense with a pulse.....
 
RL52U said:
Look ultimately it comes down to the following...

Who can take the talent...and organize it in a way that will beat people.

That's it.

Offensive coaches win, defensive coaches win. The reason the stats are the way they are is because to be champion you have to be good at all 3 phases. That's what it takes to be a championship team. It's not just defense. It's not just offense. It's not just special teams. It's all 3 phases of the game.

Guess what? If you play all 3 phases really well...you'll probably be champion. It's that simple.

Why are Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, FSU, us, Auburn etc. always considered programs that can be in the mix. (Obviously we haven't been there in a while, but everyone knows if we get our act together we will be)

Because we have talent. LSU is dripping with talent everywhere. So is Bama, so is Auburn, etc. etc. etc.

Man even Richt who is always winning like 10 games or something...why? because Georgia has tons of talent.

Teams that have huge offenses and do well are typically teams that don't have the talent to fill all three phases. They have enough for just 1 side of the ball. So they put all their eggs in 1 basket hoping to win.

Look at a team like Boston College that is all defense. They are 3-6. And they lead in just about every defensive category...

What really is the difference are the teams that can play great on all 3 sides with talent. That's the key.

An Offensive minded HC can win just as easily as a defensive minded HC.

What was Jimbo at the noles before he was HC.... an OC... what?!?! How could this be?!?? it's almost as if a Good HC will hire a good DC with a good budget and wow...they can win games...because when they have the talent for all 3 sides there is no excuse for not being good at all 3 phases.

When you are in talent deprived areas...sometimes you gotta go all in on something with the best players you have so you at least have SOMETHING that is good.

So don't give me this BS it HAS to be defensive minded...or it HAS to be offensive minded.

It just has to be a smart coach who knows how to get the most out of what he has. That's it. That's always the marker and judge.

Harbaugh gets the most out of his players... good coach.

Urban Meyer (another offensive assistant)...gets the most out of his players...good coach.

You know why we sucked with Golden? Because he got the least out of his players. He had the talent. We always have had talent, but we lost with him because despite being talented...he made things confusing...didn't know how to mold people to get the most out of them, and in the end shackled the players abilities in order to "Raising Canes" and all that BS.

I saw a video somewhere at practice and he's trying to talk to a player who was slow to move around and that fat goldilocks is shouting at him "Let's go Miami...Let's go Miami" like he doesn't even know who the player is and just general Miami talk is going to motivate him.

Great coaches come from all sides of the ball. If they are good at offense...get a good DC. Just like when we had Ericson..that worked out just fine. If they a good DC...get a good OC... It's not hard to do it, but Golden made it hard. So we don't need to say it has to be this..or it has to be that...

No. The requirements are.
- Have a clear vision.
- Bring the most out of the players
- Kick people's ***
- Hire good assistants that compliment what you want to do in all 3 phases

That's it. It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...


Butch Davis agrees with you.
 
Advertisement
Cane Dynasty said:
DMoney said:
Yards per play is one of my favorite stats.
Click to expand...

Sp glad you brought that up.

Did you know that butch Davis @ UNC was 36th in ypp on offense and 33rd in ypp given up on defense, even with all the suspensions to his studs in 2010?

Butch Davis is a God.
Click to expand...


Butch Hiring Day is 21 away

Still looking? Searching? Wandering aimlessly in the desert of CORCHES?

I must be looking for something
Something sacred I lost
But the river is wide
And it's too hard to cross

And even though I know the river is wide
I walk down every evening and I stand on the shore
And try to cross to the opposite side
So I can finally find out what I've been looking for

I don't know why I go walking at night
But now I'm tired and I don't want to walk anymore
I hope it doesn't take the rest of my life
Until I find what it is that I've been looking for

In the middle of the night
I go walking in my sleep
Through the jungle of doubt
To a river so deep

[video=youtube;hSq4B_zHqPM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSq4B_zHqPM&list=PLb7YSwrGOyBRt2F1u0rln7M_ tYNquuTnw[/video]


 
DMoney said:
And this is not to say that an offensive coach can't build a great defense, or vice versa. But defense still wins championships.
Click to expand...

It seemed to me the d-coordinator reverted back to his old ways in the 4th on saturday and was bailed out at the end. I hate that defense where there is no pre-snap movement!!! sure it's not everything, but them make the qb think a bit!
 
Advertisement
Back
Top