Did I see UCF is favored?

[Salt]

Nobody knew how much time would be left on the clock. Refs decided and went over to tell both coaches in a huddle. UCF coach throws his hands in the air and Coach L smiles and throws a handshake at him. It was pretty funny because at that point they were the first to know before the broadcast. That is how we knew first who won.

noticed that as well. I immediately told myself "we won". Also smart coaching on L's part to tell his players whoever got their hands on the ball to just bat the ball up in the air instead of trying to grab it and possibly fouling again. Once the ball is touched the clock starts and it was up in the air long enough to run the time down.

 

[hotshot]

They were. You had to watch the review in person. At one point, all three refs huddled and one of the refs actually got a separate stopwatch to time it against the video. You know **** well they were trying to find a way to leave a half-second on the clock.

They did the right thing in the end. If we had been trailing by one, we'd have wanted them looking or an extra millisecond too.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

They did the right thing in the end. If we had been trailing by one, we'd have wanted them looking or an extra millisecond too.

Yeah, but I'm big enough to realize that it's not just about "what we want" or who is ahead.

The reality is that it was a UCF clock malfunction and it was going in UCF's favor. If it happened in Miami with UM trailing, I simply would have wanted the refs to do the right thing, regardless.

If a judgment call goes our way (such as, calling a questionable foul), that is one thing. But to benefit from a discrepancy that is easily provable (such as replaying the inbounds play with a stopwatch) is just a bit too much to tolerate.

 

[AmherstCane]

They did the right thing in the end. If we had been trailing by one, we'd have wanted them looking or an extra millisecond too.

100%… HOWEVER it was clear from both the calls and their end-game huddle that 2/3 refs were not impartial.

Just in the endgame… The foul called on Miller was not a foul, the foul called on Wong was not a foul, and the foul called on Omier was for less than what UCF was doing under the basket all night.

There’s no grand conspiracy, but there are refs who need to be held in check/worked by the coach and unfortunately Coach L just doesn’t play that game.

 

[hotshot]

100%… HOWEVER it was clear from both the calls and their end-game huddle that 2/3 refs were not impartial.

Just in the endgame… The foul called on Miller was not a foul, the foul called on Wong was not a foul, and the foul called on Omier was for less than what UCF was doing under the basket all night.

There’s no grand conspiracy, but there are refs who need to be held in check/worked by the coach and unfortunately Coach L just doesn’t play that game.

You could be right. Maybe, though, his 54 years of coaching college basketball have led him to the conclusion -- weighing the pros and cons -- that constantly 'working' refs is not the most productive approach?

It would be interesting to have this discussion with him.

 

[jkdood]

Think if Miami wins the next 2 or 3 games then we should be top 25.

Would be nice but I wouldnt count on it. Polls werent real impressed with the tight win... new rankings today: dropped several spots in both and are now about 37 ( a 9-seed). Would take a lot to get into top 25 any time soon, and I daresay we are barely getting the job done. But yeah 2-3 wins wont hurt, Go Canes.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Would be nice but I wouldnt count on it. Polls werent real impressed with the tight win... new rankings today: dropped several spots in both and are now about 37 ( a 9-seed). Would take a lot to get into top 25 any time soon, and I daresay we are barely getting the job done. But yeah 2-3 wins wont hurt, Go Canes.

Yea I mean if they win all the way up to Virginia they'll be top 30 and obviously a win against them would put them in the top 25. Who cares about rankings now just win and get better as a team.

 

[AmherstCane]

You could be right. Maybe, though, his 54 years of coaching college basketball have led him to the conclusion -- weighing the pros and cons -- that constantly 'working' refs is not the most productive approach?

It would be interesting to have this discussion with him.

I am well known to this site as a Coach L homer. I have consistently posted - even during the worst period following the FBI scandal - that we are INCREDIBLY lucky to have Coach L as our basketball coach. Incredibly lucky.

With that said, nobody is perfect.

I am quite sure you correctly articulated his conclusion.

Coach L got a great whistle at George Mason… where he employed the same philosophy.

Unfortunately, that strategy just isn’t working at Miami.

The “bad whistle” is not a biased fan reaction. UCF they called SIX fouls on Miami in the last 6 minutes when we had the lead. That’s 1 foul per minute or what would be 40 fouls/game. AT LEAST three of those were not close to being fouls.

The first half was what 8 fouls on Miami to 2 fouls on UCF?

Providence officiating was bad, Maryland was an abortion… much like UNC-G at HOME.

Coach L knows it is bad but doesn’t believe he can do anything to change it. As a fan, I don’t know if he’s right or wrong about that… but as a huge fan of the school and Coach L, seeing blatantly bad game altering officiating is frustrating enough to make me want to ***** about it on a message board. Nothing posted here changes anything anyway, so it seems like an appropriate place to vent.

 

[AmherstCane]

About working the refs: Our beliefs are shaped by our experiences. I reminder Thad Matta working the $#!+ outta the refs back when Miami played Ohio State at home many many years ago. The refs called a BS flagrant 2 with ejection (Haith was wrong about almost everything but I was at the game and Jack shouldn’t have been ejected https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=3741394) against Jack McClinton and otherwise generally caved to Thad in how the game was officiated.

Now, granted, Thad is a **** and Coach L is 10x the coach he is (which is also relevant to their strategies in dealing with the stripes), so I don’t want Coach L to be like Thad.

But I do think some extra effort directed towards addressing officiating (publicly or privately) is warranted.

Other than sending film of bad calls, there is no current behind the scenes strategy to address officiating problems.

 

[JustAFanHTX]

Wong being our second best perimeter player is an issue.

 

[Memnon]

Wong being our second best perimeter player is an issue.

How so?

 

[JustAFanHTX]

How so?

In my personal opinion just with the way our team is constructed his lack of legit range is a problem. His game is predicated on breaking defenders down and getting to his spots in the mid range or in the paints but the college game is already bad for spacing and we have no shooters around him to help him out. So it’s not really a knock on him really he’s good but his fit on our team without charlie, Sam, and Kam with him is eh imo

 

[Memnon]

In my personal opinion just with the way our team is constructed his lack of legit range is a problem. His game is predicated on breaking defenders down and getting to his spots in the mid range or in the paints but the college game is already bad for spacing and we have no shooters around him to help him out. So it’s not really a knock on him really he’s good but his fit on our team without charlie, Sam, and Kam with him is eh imo

I see what you're saying...

I think that's where Pack comes into play as the best pure 3pt shooter on the team.

Wong is enough of a playmaker off the dribble to mitigate for the lack of being a sharpshooter so to speak & the way our Offense is designed (particularly this season) a lot of the buckets are coming off the midrange game & attacking the basket.

As a team we're averaging 47% from the floor & most of that is jumpers from 15-18ft or high % shots at the basket from guys like Omier, Miller & Woog etc..

We don't really have a live by the 3 die by the 3 kinda team, which is both good & bad; It allows for us not to panic in moments when we get down a few buckets & start jacking up 3's, but on flipside it makes forging double digit comebacks that much harder when you don't have a consistent 3pt presence, although I think Pack can fill that role.

Wong is the kind of player that needs the ball to be at his best, I think there's ways we can figure out how to let him be a scorer while also having Pack, Miller & Omier be involved in the game & get their buckets as well.

Aside from the Maryland game (which funny enough was Wong's best game) we haven't really been in a position where the weaknesses have cost us anything drastic on the floor. We'll see what happens come ACC play, but so far Wong has been a good compliment with Pack.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

In my personal opinion just with the way our team is constructed his lack of legit range is a problem. His game is predicated on breaking defenders down and getting to his spots in the mid range or in the paints but the college game is already bad for spacing and we have no shooters around him to help him out. So it’s not really a knock on him really he’s good but his fit on our team without charlie, Sam, and Kam with him is eh imo

I disagree. The threat of a 3-point shot is also what helps him get to the basket. I have watched Zay take that step back three with lethal impact. He's gotten fouled god-knows how many times taking it.

 

[JustAFanHTX]

I disagree. The threat of a 3-point shot is also what helps him get to the basket. I have watched Zay take that step back three with lethal impact. He's gotten fouled god-knows how many times taking it.

I’ll be honest with you I have no idea why they honor his 3 point shot as a defender as much as they do. He’s a streaky shooter and when he’s on he’s a hard matchup but it’s far from a strength. His form shows you he struggles getting it there from college range. He’s a very good player but very flawed at this stage.

 

[JustAFanHTX]

I see what you're saying...

I think that's where Pack comes into play as the best pure 3pt shooter on the team.

Wong is enough of a playmaker off the dribble to mitigate for the lack of being a sharpshooter so to speak & the way our Offense is designed (particularly this season) a lot of the buckets are coming off the midrange game & attacking the basket.

As a team we're averaging 47% from the floor & most of that is jumpers from 15-18ft or high % shots at the basket from guys like Omier, Miller & Woog etc..

We don't really have a live by the 3 die by the 3 kinda team, which is both good & bad; It allows for us not to panic in moments when we get down a few buckets & start jacking up 3's, but on flipside it makes forging double digit comebacks that much harder when you don't have a consistent 3pt presence, although I think Pack can fill that role.

Wong is the kind of player that needs the ball to be at his best, I think there's ways we can figure out how to let him be a scorer while also having Pack, Miller & Omier be involved in the game & get their buckets as well.

Aside from the Maryland game (which funny enough was Wong's best game) we haven't really been in a position where the weaknesses have cost us anything drastic on the floor. We'll see what happens come ACC play, but so far Wong has been a good compliment with Pack.

Yeah pack is the engine. Even more so than I expected. I just figured a 3rd years wong would be a bit more dynamic. I do like the strides the back up guards have made

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I’ll be honest with you I have no idea why they honor his 3 point shot as a defender as much as they do. He’s a streaky shooter and when he’s on he’s a hard matchup but it’s far from a strength. His form shows you he struggles getting it there from college range. He’s a very good player but very flawed at this stage.

We can agree on something simple, neither Wong's 3 point percentage NOR his volume of 3 pointers screams out "respect this shot", yet it seems to work. You and I have both seen plenty of games where he draws fouls from behind the line, which is kinda crazy in the abstract.

But it works. When Wong goes forward and then takes that step back, the defenders chase him. Until it stops working, I'm OK with it being in his ****nal. Because quite a few times he has ALSO used that step back as a fake, and then he blows past guys.

I watch the games, I went up to the Elite 8, and sure, I'd love to see Wong going to the basket as a bigger percentage of his scoring. I'm not suggesting that he is a 3 point specialist or should aspire to be one. But the 3-point THREAT helps his overall game.

That's all.

 

[JustAFanHTX]

We can agree on something simple, neither Wong's 3 point percentage NOR his volume of 3 pointers screams out "respect this shot", yet it seems to work. You and I have both seen plenty of games where he draws fouls from behind the line, which is kinda crazy in the abstract.

But it works. When Wong goes forward and then takes that step back, the defenders chase him. Until it stops working, I'm OK with it being in his ****nal. Because quite a few times he has ALSO used that step back as a fake, and then he blows past guys.

I watch the games, I went up to the Elite 8, and sure, I'd love to see Wong going to the basket as a bigger percentage of his scoring. I'm not suggesting that he is a 3 point specialist or should aspire to be one. But the 3-point THREAT helps his overall game.

That's all.

He’s a very good player. So I’m kinda nitpicking in the first place. I agree with everything you said. I clarified with LCE my problem wasn’t really with him just his fit alongside the roster. He needs more space but it’s not his fault he doesn’t have it