Devante Bond grades

[LuCane]

I don't know how guys have come to the conclusion that our scheme is preventing us from having a pass rush. Our lack of pass rushers is preventing us from having a pass rush. Shayon Green logged HUGE minutes last year, and he's couldn't get to the QB if my grandma was blocking him. Chick isn't exactly a natural pass rusher either. McCord and Terry both have potential, but they were both too light and weak.

Pass rushers are born, not made. I know some of you guys are football scientists and think Coach Duh' is braindead, but there's absolutely no way Coach Duh' will take a natural pass rusher and try to remove that from his game. Our D's biggest problem, by a long shot, has been our inability to get to the QB. We give QBs way too much time, and that's why we get picked apart.

Besides the condescending tone of your post - seriously, almost Bombish - it's also just inexplicably ignorant. Our "pass rushers" are predominantly asked to play a technique that doesn't put them in the best position to rush the passer. That's not subjective. That's a fact.

Coach D isn't braindead and some of us have actually defended what, at least for me, has been a decision to play his scheme with guys not strong enough or good enough to play it (at a short term loss) in an attempt not to have to make the transition later (for a future gain).

That doesn't change the fact that, when the defensive calls go in, our DLinemen are often playing gap control.

Find me a pass rusher that we misused last year. There isn't one. And I'm sure that explains why we tried to do the things we tried to do defensively.

In your infinite wisdom, Mr. Football, do you think that Coach D would actually take a great pass rusher that he knew could get to the QB and tell him to play gap control on passing downs? You want to talk about inexplicably ignorant, then explain to us dummies and mere mortals what the rationale would be for that. You can get too carried away with trying to break down your DVR footage of the game and forget that we had no pass rushers on the squad.

Pass rushers are what every coach would kill for. Yet our coaches are too dumb to realize that Green and Chick are Lawrence Taylor II and III and are telling them to play patty-cake with the OL instead of sacking the QB? Makes sense.

Cut out the condescending stuff and personal attacks. There's no place for that here. I haven't addressed you in that way. You're a good, smart poster when you're not trying to be a tough guy. Stick to the football discussion.

*Edit: Removed the rest of this paragraph for what should be kept off this board. If you'd like to discuss, it can be through PM.

On to the football discussion:

Do we or do we not play gap control? Did we or did we not ask everyone - good or bad, edge guy or otherwise - to play gap control? Do D'Ono and Golden have a history of gap control defenses? Is there any evidence that they promote a looser, free-wheeling downhill style of defense? Anywhere?

The rest of your arguments are weak straw men. No one has said D'Ono is trying to transform pass rushers into garbage. All signs point to everyone being asked to play within the system, though. If you see something else, feel free to educate us. That's what the board is for.

that's all good and well, but it doesn't explain our anemic pass rush on 3rd and long

Actually, part of it does. First of all, there's a random straw man argument being made that I (maybe someone else?) said our pass rush issues are caused by our scheme. That's not what I have said. Our pass rush issues are caused by a number of reasons. This thread is actually about how Devonte Bond will translate his skill set to a defensive scheme that has been used by this coaching staff on 3 different teams. It's not like they go to this particular scheme because we sucked and lacked talent.

As for the explanation of 3rd and long: scheme was partly relevant (though a conscious decision) this past year. We are not lining up guys wide and sending them downhill. Part of that is we don't have guys who could do it. Part of it is a philosophy that, again, has been used here, at Temple and began at Virginia. It doesn't, however, explain why a 215 pound Mccord would essentially be playing 5-technique and contain on pass rushing downs. There are a number of reasons for that decision.

Will they adjust when they get better edge rushers? Maybe. Probably. I hope. Will we be flying downhill and playing one-gap? Again, maybe, but it'd be a complete reversal of anything we've ever seen from this group of coaches. I think we're just more likely to see better players executing this scheme more effectively because they're bigger, stronger and/or faster. What that means for Devonte Bond is, like I said in my original response (the apparent cause for how this unfolded), that it makes it unclear if his particular skill set (he's not exactly huge) will be maximized.

I'm really not sure where the other arguments came from. No one said the scheme was holding guys back last year.

 

[Bird4um]

Insider says bond is out. Not gonna make it.

 

[Ernie McCracken]

I can't believe this is being disputed. You have John Chavis at LSU who lets ends and tackles penetrate and get up the field to disrupt the offense. On the other side you have systems like ours that ask our lineman to hold their ground and do gap control. The fact is we didn't have guys that could do that well bc they weren't developed physically enough to be able do that. You've got to have incredible size, e.g. Alabama, to do that.

I'm confused about what's so debatable.

Gap control is done by everyone, and it's for run defense. Nobody, not LSU or anybody else, just lets de's and dt's get just pin their ears back and get upfield every play. This is some bs message board crap.

If you do that in real football, the rb will either crease you for a huge gain or they'll throw screens at you all day.

You have to be able to control at least one gap or you can't play college football, period.

Everybody, even LSU, plays read and react all the time, and what that means is unless you're specifically blitzing, your first responsibility is to control your gap and make sure it's not a running play coming your way.

After you know it's a pass, your job is to disengage your blocker and get at the qb. This is every scheme.

jesus christo. I never said LSU doesn't have gap responsibility and just plays like wild animals with total disregard for scheme. lol Come on man. I was making a general statement referring to basics as it pertains to pass rush. And the fact is those guys play a one gap attacking scheme that allows them to make a very quick read and then get up the field to the quarterback. Jesus christ, I was generalizing the basic difference in our scheme's and what I said is vanilla but it's true.

It's cool man. Nothing personal, but I get annoyed when I read the same old ****... "our scheme doesn't allow our DT's to get up field, they're just absorbing blocks, blah blah"

I've read that **** a thousand times. I don't know how it got started, but it's some fantasy, message board bull****. NO scheme works that way. Yet somehow, that **** gets around, and probably hurts our DT recruiting. Maybe he's being a ****, but Franchise is right about that.

Here's how I see it. If you're a DT and you can control one gap, you can play this game.

If you're a DT and you can control two gaps, you're that much more valuable, because now that's one less gap you have to assign and so now your defense is a man up.

If you're a DT and you can control one gap, diagnose a pass, and then shed your block and get up field.... you're special. Now the defense doesn't need to blitz to create pressure.

If you're a DT and you can control two gaps, diagnose a pass, and then shed your block and get sack or hurry the QB, you're the most valuable man on the field.


If our guys can't stop the run, and can't create any pressure.... they just flat out suck at the position. That has nothing to do with scheme.

 

[Ghost]

Insider says bond is out. Not gonna make it.

What Insider?

 

[rudebuddha]

Personally, I'm just not as high on Bond as others are. Even if he gets in, I don't think he's going to do much.

Unless you are privy to additional footage of Bond beyond his Beastly HL film, or some other info that would somehow dilute the eye-popping stats the kid put up in JUCO I really don't understand how you can make a statement like this..

To add to what Lu said, do you think we are going to simply let him pin his ears back and rush the QB? If we do, then we will have changed what we've done over the last couple of years. Maybe it's just me, but I see Bond as a one trick pony in a system that isn't best suited for his trick. In addition, I'm skeptical as to if he's going to be able to simply blow by people like he did in JUCO, and I'm curious as to his true physical measurements. I guess time will tell.

I'm fine with a one trick pony if his trick is killing people.

 

[CANE1775]

Personally, I'm just not as high on Bond as others are. Even if he gets in, I don't think he's going to do much.

Unless you are privy to additional footage of Bond beyond his Beastly HL film, or some other info that would somehow dilute the eye-popping stats the kid put up in JUCO I really don't understand how you can make a statement like this..

To add to what Lu said, do you think we are going to simply let him pin his ears back and rush the QB? If we do, then we will have changed what we've done over the last couple of years. Maybe it's just me, but I see Bond as a one trick pony in a system that isn't best suited for his trick. In addition, I'm skeptical as to if he's going to be able to simply blow by people like he did in JUCO, and I'm curious as to his true physical measurements. I guess time will tell.

I'm fine with a one trick pony if his trick is killing people.

Who wouldn't be?

 

[bransuperpower]

this thread is getting dumb no information is getting shared sounds like a bunch of girls

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Hoping that isnt true about bond. we need that kid this year. his tape is crazy

 

[The Franchise]

I can't believe this is being disputed. You have John Chavis at LSU who lets ends and tackles penetrate and get up the field to disrupt the offense. On the other side you have systems like ours that ask our lineman to hold their ground and do gap control. The fact is we didn't have guys that could do that well bc they weren't developed physically enough to be able do that. You've got to have incredible size, e.g. Alabama, to do that.

I'm confused about what's so debatable.

Chavis "lets" guys like Mingo get after the QB? And Coach D doesn't "let" Shayon Green sack the QB? Laughs. Mingo just got drafted in the 1st round for a very simple reason--pass rushers are at a PREMIUM on every level of football. Chavis didn't "let" Mingo become a pass rusher. Mingo was born that way.

 

[AUcane]

I'm with Chise here. Lu, you are complicating lunch. Yes, there is a scheme...nobody is questioning that. But, there were many many times last year where our DEs were asked to rush the passer absent gap control discipline. That much is clear. They were horridly ineffective at it. Our guys cannot rush the passer - green and chick are average to below average at it.

 

[dg151]

Gabe Terry wasn't told once last season to gap control when he was in at DE. Every single play he was in he was flying upfield.

 

[Dandycane]

Hey, our D lacked personnel with talent and experience last year and the DL will again this year.

Randy Shannon keeps on giving.

 

[westcoastcanes]

Cut out the condescending stuff and personal attacks. There's no place for that here.

if I didn't know better, I would think this was your first day on this board.

 

[The Franchise]

I'm with Chise here. Lu, you are complicating lunch. Yes, there is a scheme...nobody is questioning that. But, there were many many times last year where our DEs were asked to rush the passer absent gap control discipline. That much is clear. They were horridly ineffective at it. Our guys cannot rush the passer - green and chick are average to below average at it.

Exactly. The only real potential pass rushers we had on the roster last year were Terry and McCord. When they were in they pinned their ears back. It didn't always work out for them because they were too light and weak. Doesn't matter if guys like Green or Chick pin their ears back because one of them is practically crippled with arms like an alligator, and the other is merely a decent pass rusher.

Look at a dude like Mingo. He was redshirted his true freshman year and only had 3.5 sacks his RS FR season. That's pretty similar production to TRUE freshman McCord and Terry. Did Chavis have Mingo playing gap control as a RS FR, or did he get better as he developed physically, gained more experience and got more comfortable with the college game?

I'd expect our DEs with actual pass rushing ability to have similar increases in production over their careers without a significant change in scheme. I'm sure guys will claim we changed the scheme when the production increases, but I'll doubt it.

 

[The Franchise]

I don't know how guys have come to the conclusion that our scheme is preventing us from having a pass rush. Our lack of pass rushers is preventing us from having a pass rush. Shayon Green logged HUGE minutes last year, and he's couldn't get to the QB if my grandma was blocking him. Chick isn't exactly a natural pass rusher either. McCord and Terry both have potential, but they were both too light and weak.

Pass rushers are born, not made. I know some of you guys are football scientists and think Coach Duh' is braindead, but there's absolutely no way Coach Duh' will take a natural pass rusher and try to remove that from his game. Our D's biggest problem, by a long shot, has been our inability to get to the QB. We give QBs way too much time, and that's why we get picked apart.

Besides the condescending tone of your post - seriously, almost Bombish - it's also just inexplicably ignorant. Our "pass rushers" are predominantly asked to play a technique that doesn't put them in the best position to rush the passer. That's not subjective. That's a fact.

Coach D isn't braindead and some of us have actually defended what, at least for me, has been a decision to play his scheme with guys not strong enough or good enough to play it (at a short term loss) in an attempt not to have to make the transition later (for a future gain).

That doesn't change the fact that, when the defensive calls go in, our DLinemen are often playing gap control.

Find me a pass rusher that we misused last year. There isn't one. And I'm sure that explains why we tried to do the things we tried to do defensively.

In your infinite wisdom, Mr. Football, do you think that Coach D would actually take a great pass rusher that he knew could get to the QB and tell him to play gap control on passing downs? You want to talk about inexplicably ignorant, then explain to us dummies and mere mortals what the rationale would be for that. You can get too carried away with trying to break down your DVR footage of the game and forget that we had no pass rushers on the squad.

Pass rushers are what every coach would kill for. Yet our coaches are too dumb to realize that Green and Chick are Lawrence Taylor II and III and are telling them to play patty-cake with the OL instead of sacking the QB? Makes sense.

Cut out the condescending stuff and personal attacks. There's no place for that here. I haven't addressed you in that way. You're a good, smart poster when you're not trying to be a tough guy. Stick to the football discussion.

*Edit: Removed the rest of this paragraph for what should be kept off this board. If you'd like to discuss, it can be through PM.

On to the football discussion:

Do we or do we not play gap control? Did we or did we not ask everyone - good or bad, edge guy or otherwise - to play gap control? Do D'Ono and Golden have a history of gap control defenses? Is there any evidence that they promote a looser, free-wheeling downhill style of defense? Anywhere?

The rest of your arguments are weak straw men. No one has said D'Ono is trying to transform pass rushers into garbage. All signs point to everyone being asked to play within the system, though. If you see something else, feel free to educate us. That's what the board is for.

LULZ. When you start with comparing me to bumbstein and calling me ignorant, then you'll get some vitriol in return. Don't want that? Then don't do it yourself.

 

[FullyERicht]

what's going on with bond? it just seems very odd that he is having trouble getting in now because wouldnt the coaches know this would have been a problem during the time they recruited him? he committed fairly early?

Dont you know that to play at UM now you have to solve a rubix cube while explaining the theory of relativity.

Maybe if our admin spent more time monitoring rogue boosters instead of nitpicking JUCO transfers, we might not be an embarrassing program anymore

 

[loreste]

Hey, our D lacked personnel with talent and experience last year and the DL will again this year.

Randy Shannon keeps on giving.

Shannon has been gone for three years now, that is Golden's problem now. A class with no DT last year, let's not forget that

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

I want to go on record as saying they are both right. The scheme sucks and the players on last years roster sucked.

 

[nadiamufdi]

Hey, our D lacked personnel with talent and experience last year and the DL will again this year.

Randy Shannon keeps on giving.

Shannon has been gone for three years now, that is Golden's problem now. A class with no DT last year, let's not forget that

Didn't we get two JUCO DT, with one being last week?