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Defensive Scheme vs Talent

Newkirk said:
DaU83 said:
skyman said:
DaU83 said:
RiDLer80 said:
The style of play of our offense.
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agreed.. and the talent/ maturity of the defensive 2 deep.. people act like Donof is a no name dude who hasn't ever fielded a good defense. this is baffling. there's evidence that these guys know what they're doing on that side of the ball.
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You knew of Dorito before he came here? I dont think if you ask every BCS conference team who he is they would know. (Penn state excluded.) Dorito would have the same trajectory as that OC randy hired. ( I already forgot buddy name). Just because a coach does well in a lower conference doesnt automatically mean he will do well at BCS level. Heck some coaches at one BCS school cant perform at another.

The guy hasnt proven anything at this level. Honestly he isnt even qualified for the job. His only qualification is he is Golden's best man. Thats it.
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so you're saying he hasn't had success previously? is that your contention?
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What do you consider success? If feeding on the bottom tier of teams in your league after you've accumulated the most talent is success then yes. If doing anything against good teams means anything then no.
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MiamiNights ladies and gentlemen!
 
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rayray said:
if you go by pace & schedule adjusted stats, miami's defense was:

2011: 69 http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaadef2011

2012: 79 http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaadef2012

not a huge difference, really. looking at non-pace adjusted stats for our defense is especially screwy considering how much faster we played last season. we've sucked for two straight years tho.
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unrelated but thanks for those links. its always good to use adjusted and advanced stats to break down different units. i'll be using this to look over a few teams from last year.
 
I just can't help myself though, even though I shouldn't because it's been rehashed a million times.

It's about GAPS. If your DL is playing 2-gap (as ours are supposed to but really bad at), all of these numbers are irrelevant. Not to mention most of your examples you say "hat on hat", which is code for "their guys were better than ours.

Read up on the Seattle Seahawks defense, or the 49ers, or better yet Bill Parcell's and (gasp) Jerry Sandusky, THEN come back and post this nonsense.
 
There are some interesting topics here. A few things of note. I'm not giving Donofiro a pass. I think the hallmark of a great coach is to get average players to be player beyond their talent level. He is not a great coach we know that. But I can't put it all on him.
Last year we saw tons of blown assignments. He's not reinventing the wheel here. there are tons of teams running this style defense. We know it can work but it requires the right personnel. So to the points in this thread.

1) Eddie Johnson in coverage. Ok he wasn't good in coverage but what was he spose to do? rush the LOS of every play regardless of the situation?

2)K-State's offense. This was a tough match-up. 90% of the time they came out with a run or screen called. If you remember in this game we loaded up the box a few times and they audibled to a screen for easy big yards. Klein was the perfect guy to run this offense because he is a power runner not a finesse guy. Yeah he's streaky passing but that offense was built around easy short and intermediate passing.
As someone else posted all we needed was for 1 guy to beat his man. I'm not tryna live in the past here but 7 on 7 against the old Canes' defenses you'd see 3-4 guys beating their man on every snap.

3) the bottom line is we just flat out haven't been big enough to compete at a high level on defense. I know ppl don't want to hear that it's easy to blame Donofrio and some of it is on him. Our Guys up front were weak and out of shape. I mean we haven't had 1 guy dominating his man to make it easier for the ppl around him. If 1 Dlineman dominates his man those 7-on-7s become 7-on-6 because of double teams. Hopefully this year now that a guy like chick has been in a college level weight lifting program for 3 years we will see some real dividends from their hard work off the field.
 
I don't really care about the scheme although i prefer 4-3 with maybe 3-4 here and there.Coach d doesn:t have the youth excuse anymore 2 dlineman are 5th year sr. and other 2 are jr.,lbs you have a 5th yr sr and a jr and at dt you have 2 sr. and juco as backups.The secondary is young but they should be at least decent vs the run with the experince in the front 7.
 
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Dghustla said:
There are some interesting topics here. A few things of note. I'm not giving Donofiro a pass. I think the hallmark of a great coach is to get average players to be player beyond their talent level. He is not a great coach we know that. But I can't put it all on him.
Last year we saw tons of blown assignments. He's not reinventing the wheel here. there are tons of teams running this style defense. We know it can work but it requires the right personnel. So to the points in this thread.

So our fans keep claiming that Coach D isn't a great coach but yet his name keeps being mentioned for Head Coaching positions? Our fans are ******* retarded.

The defense sucked because the defensive depth chart sucked. It had nothing to do with scheme or coaching. The fans bashing Coach D will look just as stupid a the fans who bashed Butch prematurely. History has a funny way of repeating itself.
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The defensive depth chart was bad, but it probably wasn't 116th in the nation bad. Some of the blame should go on Dorito until he proves he's a great DC here.
 
rokulika said:
The defensive depth chart was bad, but it probably wasn't 116th in the nation bad. Some of the blame should go on Dorito until he proves he's a great DC here.
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The depth chart was bad but not 116th in the nation bad? When you're entire two deep is made up of True Sophomores or younger you are 116th nationally bad. Hate to break it to you.
 
Aside from Temple, which came at Golden's suggestion, which program was seriously after Dorito as a HC?

The youth excuse kills me. This is college football. Roster turnover is quick, you're always going to have young guys playing. I guess we'll all have to wait every 4 years to field a good defense. Every Winter Olympics we can look forward to not watching our guys got blocked into the mantle of the Earth.
 
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I understand the youth and talent excuse but we couldn't even stop Bethune Cookman or Duke. I mean, really? Smh
 
For all the people who want to blame the scheme/coahing, which players do you feel would have performed at a higher level in a different defense? You want to say youth and the depth chart was an excuse, then you're saying those players are better than the 116th ranked defense, and just underperformed in the defense we ran. So what players would have performed at such a higher level in a different defense that we would have had a top ___ ranked defense?
 
It is called roster management and you don't have control of it until you inherit a roster. Once you are in charge of the roster you are able to control the depth chart and players on the roster, then you can lessen the effects of attrition/graduation. Once you can replace players with other players you have been coaching and developing for a year or two (S&C, proper nutrition), then the effects of turnover are less.

There will always be youth and younger players playing hopefully because they are really skilled and not by force. But to inherit what Al was given is not the same thing as a youth excuse. It is was actually happened.
 
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rokulika said:
The defensive depth chart was bad, but it probably wasn't 116th in the nation bad. Some of the blame should go on Dorito until he proves he's a great DC here.
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Your obsession with this Total D stat is amazing. Why don't you complain about the points WHICH SUCKS in itself?
 
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Consigliere said:
rokulika said:
The defensive depth chart was bad, but it probably wasn't 116th in the nation bad. Some of the blame should go on Dorito until he proves he's a great DC here.
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Your obsession with this Total D stat is amazing. Why don't you complain about the points WHICH SUCKS in itself?
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Whatever. The defense was young but it wasn't wholly bereft of talent. What we witnessed against BC, UVA, Duke, and Bethune is what's troubling.
 
WildcatDefense said:
I understand the youth and talent excuse but we couldn't even stop Bethune Cookman or Duke. I mean, really? Smh
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Not saying Duke is some powerhouse or anything, but they weren't your 1-11 Duke from years past. They made a bowl game and put a couple offensive players in the NFL.

That said, when things are running smoothly, we should be stomping them.

As for Bethune Cookman, why do people put so much stock into that game? We're not the first team to play down to the competition. And it's not like they murdered us. They scored 10 points.

Their scrambling backup QB came in and ran for some big plays. It happens.

Bottom line, I expect us to be significantly better this year.
 
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rokulika said:
Consigliere said:
rokulika said:
The defensive depth chart was bad, but it probably wasn't 116th in the nation bad. Some of the blame should go on Dorito until he proves he's a great DC here.
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Your obsession with this Total D stat is amazing. Why don't you complain about the points WHICH SUCKS in itself?
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Whatever. The defense was young but it wasn't wholly bereft of talent. What we witnessed against BC, UVA, Duke, and Bethune is what's troubling.
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Again, I am not disagreeing but I just don't get this obsession with the total D stat. Since when is total D the end all.
 
CanesAreAble said:
WildcatDefense said:
I understand the youth and talent excuse but we couldn't even stop Bethune Cookman or Duke. I mean, really? Smh
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Not saying Duke is some powerhouse or anything, but they weren't your 1-11 Duke from years past. They made a bowl game and put a couple offensive players in the NFL.

That said, when things are running smoothly, we should be stomping them.

As for Bethune Cookman, why do people put so much stock into that game? We're not the first team to play down to the competition. And it's not like they murdered us. They scored 10 points.

Their scrambling backup QB came in and ran for some big plays. It happens.

Bottom line, I expect us to be significantly better this year.
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People seem to love this total D stat for some reason. They get behind it and shout their agenda to the masses. No one is gerking it to the amount of yards we let up...but people should be complaining about the points, we let up 30.5 per game. 30.5 points per game. Yes, almost 31 PPG. That is what REALLY sucks.

If you want MAJOR success this year, we are going to have to drop 30.5 to as close to 22 PPG as possible.
 
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