Defensive End Battle

[Coach Macho]

Anthony Chickillo played his freshman season Miami at 6'4 248. He is now 6'4 277 that is a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

Jadeveon Clowney played his freshman season at 6'6 245. He is now 6'6 274 that is also a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

This staff did not do anything that any other staff would done with this kid. The truth is Chick is a blue collar type of guy who is not athletic enough to make the flashy plays. He does his job, sets the edge, and give crazy effort on every play. I personally prefer Ufomba Kamalu over Chick because of his athleticism, but I appreciate what Chick brings and I think he has done an excellent job in his role.

How do you compare those two players? They have totally different frames.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Starter means nothing. Kamaulu and Chick will play equally.
And with Chick he gives you the versatility to switch from a 3-4 to 4-3 as he could play the edge as a 3-4 DE and play 1 gap 2-3 technique as a DT in a 4-3.

 

[Coach Macho]

I think the staff did Chick a favor.

Him playing 4-3 DE at 255 is a waste! He's not a pash rusher. He's a technique guy ... Effort guy. Nothing about his athleticism is special. He's not overly fast, quick, or strong. So, the staff beefed him up, allows him to work his effort and technique, and tries to let him pass rush against guards.

Ideally, IMO, Chick should be a RS-Jr playing the position he's playing. I think he will have a good season for us this year. And if he had another year to play, he would probably have a great year as a 5th year player.

How'd they do him a favor? He's been completely unproductive since the weight gain and position change. (after showing promise as a Freshman)

He's not overly strong but let's put him in position where you need a guy who's a strength beast.

 

[Hstokes1447]

Anthony Chickillo played his freshman season Miami at 6'4 248. He is now 6'4 277 that is a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

Jadeveon Clowney played his freshman season at 6'6 245. He is now 6'6 274 that is also a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

This staff did not do anything that any other staff would done with this kid. The truth is Chick is a blue collar type of guy who is not athletic enough to make the flashy plays. He does his job, sets the edge, and give crazy effort on every play. I personally prefer Ufomba Kamalu over Chick because of his athleticism, but I appreciate what Chick brings and I think he has done an excellent job in his role.

How do you compare those two players? They have totally different frames.

Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri 6-4 230 as a freshman, he is now 6-4 274 as a redshirt JR entering the draft. That is a gain of 44 pounds in 4 years. Knoy and Chick have the exact same body type but they are night and day when it comes to athletic ability.

 

[WestEndZone]

I think the staff did Chick a favor.

Him playing 4-3 DE at 255 is a waste! He's not a pash rusher. He's a technique guy ... Effort guy. Nothing about his athleticism is special. He's not overly fast, quick, or strong. So, the staff beefed him up, allows him to work his effort and technique, and tries to let him pass rush against guards.

Ideally, IMO, Chick should be a RS-Jr playing the position he's playing. I think he will have a good season for us this year. And if he had another year to play, he would probably have a great year as a 5th year player.

How'd they do him a favor? He's been completely unproductive since the weight gain and position change. (after showing promise as a Freshman)

He's not overly strong but let's put him in position where you need a guy who's a strength beast.

Define completely unproductive. It's arguable that his production increased every year. His total tackles went from 38, to 45, to 46. The only argument you can make at this point is that he has always been completely unproductive, including his freshman year.

 

[RiDLer80]

Anthony Chickillo played his freshman season Miami at 6'4 248. He is now 6'4 277 that is a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

Jadeveon Clowney played his freshman season at 6'6 245. He is now 6'6 274 that is also a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

This staff did not do anything that any other staff would done with this kid. The truth is Chick is a blue collar type of guy who is not athletic enough to make the flashy plays. He does his job, sets the edge, and give crazy effort on every play. I personally prefer Ufomba Kamalu over Chick because of his athleticism, but I appreciate what Chick brings and I think he has done an excellent job in his role.

How do you compare those two players? They have totally different frames.

Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri 6-4 230 as a freshman, he is now 6-4 274 as a redshirt JR entering the draft. That is a gain of 44 pounds in 4 years. Knoy and Chick have the exact same body type but they are night and day when it comes to athletic ability.

Just because two players are the same height doesn't mean their frames carry weight equally.

 

[Cane Dynasty]

 

[Coach Macho]

I think the staff did Chick a favor.

Him playing 4-3 DE at 255 is a waste! He's not a pash rusher. He's a technique guy ... Effort guy. Nothing about his athleticism is special. He's not overly fast, quick, or strong. So, the staff beefed him up, allows him to work his effort and technique, and tries to let him pass rush against guards.

Ideally, IMO, Chick should be a RS-Jr playing the position he's playing. I think he will have a good season for us this year. And if he had another year to play, he would probably have a great year as a 5th year player.

How'd they do him a favor? He's been completely unproductive since the weight gain and position change. (after showing promise as a Freshman)

He's not overly strong but let's put him in position where you need a guy who's a strength beast.

Define completely unproductive. It's arguable that his production increased every year. His total tackles went from 38, to 45, to 46. The only argument you can make at this point is that he has always been completely unproductive, including his freshman year.

I'm saying that cause he doesn't make plays. I don't really care about tackles from the DL position. I'm looking at TFL's and Sacks. How many of those 46 tackles were made while he was being driven 3 yards down the field in an attempt to 2-gap?

 

[wherrera8]

McCord, Kamalu, Thomas, AQM on 3rd down has a lot of promise.

In a 3-4 just picture

DL McCord Wyche / Kamalu Chickillo
LB: AQM Grace Perryman Thomas

The best pass rushing group and 2 strong cover guys in the middle.

 

[Coach Macho]

Anthony Chickillo played his freshman season Miami at 6'4 248. He is now 6'4 277 that is a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

Jadeveon Clowney played his freshman season at 6'6 245. He is now 6'6 274 that is also a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

This staff did not do anything that any other staff would done with this kid. The truth is Chick is a blue collar type of guy who is not athletic enough to make the flashy plays. He does his job, sets the edge, and give crazy effort on every play. I personally prefer Ufomba Kamalu over Chick because of his athleticism, but I appreciate what Chick brings and I think he has done an excellent job in his role.

How do you compare those two players? They have totally different frames.

Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri 6-4 230 as a freshman, he is now 6-4 274 as a redshirt JR entering the draft. That is a gain of 44 pounds in 4 years. Knoy and Chick have the exact same body type but they are night and day when it comes to athletic ability.

Soooo...

If they're night and day when it comes to athletic ability...

Why would you expect the same results after the weight gain?


Here were the choices...

1. Keep Chickillo around 255lbs where he can play 4-3 DE and continue to be productive
2. Put a bunch of weight on Chickillo and make him play 3-4 DE where he'll STILL be too small and (now) completely unexplosive

 

[WestEndZone]

I think the staff did Chick a favor.

Him playing 4-3 DE at 255 is a waste! He's not a pash rusher. He's a technique guy ... Effort guy. Nothing about his athleticism is special. He's not overly fast, quick, or strong. So, the staff beefed him up, allows him to work his effort and technique, and tries to let him pass rush against guards.

Ideally, IMO, Chick should be a RS-Jr playing the position he's playing. I think he will have a good season for us this year. And if he had another year to play, he would probably have a great year as a 5th year player.

How'd they do him a favor? He's been completely unproductive since the weight gain and position change. (after showing promise as a Freshman)

He's not overly strong but let's put him in position where you need a guy who's a strength beast.

Define completely unproductive. It's arguable that his production increased every year. His total tackles went from 38, to 45, to 46. The only argument you can make at this point is that he has always been completely unproductive, including his freshman year.

I'm saying that cause he doesn't make plays. I don't really care about tackles from the DL position. I'm looking at TFL's and Sacks. How many of those 46 tackles were made while he was being driven 3 yards down the field in an attempt to 2-gap?

His TFL's went up too.

 

[Coach Macho]

I think the staff did Chick a favor.

Him playing 4-3 DE at 255 is a waste! He's not a pash rusher. He's a technique guy ... Effort guy. Nothing about his athleticism is special. He's not overly fast, quick, or strong. So, the staff beefed him up, allows him to work his effort and technique, and tries to let him pass rush against guards.

Ideally, IMO, Chick should be a RS-Jr playing the position he's playing. I think he will have a good season for us this year. And if he had another year to play, he would probably have a great year as a 5th year player.

How'd they do him a favor? He's been completely unproductive since the weight gain and position change. (after showing promise as a Freshman)

He's not overly strong but let's put him in position where you need a guy who's a strength beast.

Define completely unproductive. It's arguable that his production increased every year. His total tackles went from 38, to 45, to 46. The only argument you can make at this point is that he has always been completely unproductive, including his freshman year.

I'm saying that cause he doesn't make plays. I don't really care about tackles from the DL position. I'm looking at TFL's and Sacks. How many of those 46 tackles were made while he was being driven 3 yards down the field in an attempt to 2-gap?

His TFL's went up too.

GTFOH!

He must've played more plays or something. I don't believe that. lol

 

[WestEndZone]

How'd they do him a favor? He's been completely unproductive since the weight gain and position change. (after showing promise as a Freshman)

He's not overly strong but let's put him in position where you need a guy who's a strength beast.

Define completely unproductive. It's arguable that his production increased every year. His total tackles went from 38, to 45, to 46. The only argument you can make at this point is that he has always been completely unproductive, including his freshman year.

I'm saying that cause he doesn't make plays. I don't really care about tackles from the DL position. I'm looking at TFL's and Sacks. How many of those 46 tackles were made while he was being driven 3 yards down the field in an attempt to 2-gap?

His TFL's went up too.

GTFOH!

He must've played more plays or something. I don't believe that. lol

He probably did play more plays, but I'm still focused on labeling him completely unproductive. It might have been a significant overstatement. The biggest problem with Chick is that he's always on the field. We had no one behind him last year. Kamalu was still learning how to play football; and he still is. The lack of depth hurt Chick. He plays with good technique, he's tough. He plays hard. He's durable.

 

[itsacanething]

Even thought I think JF is a terrible DLine Coach, there is talent at the position.

I don't get how Chick can be ahead of anyone having missed almost the whole spring.

I was thinking the same thing. I wish they would just play the ballers instead of thinking they have to put these people in cause he has "experience" that's been our main downfall. play the guys that our balling. i didnt even see Chick in the spring game. he was the unnoticeable to me.

I agree with all of you. IMHO, I think AG and NoD are obsessed with having a senior-laden roster. So, they look at the matchups and if that young guy has yet to become "All World", you place him on second team even though he may be the better player. He still plays A LOT so fans and players don't ****, but he obviously plays second fiddle.

This would do 2 things:
1) Show loyalty to upperclassmen, and 2) Keep younger soon to be "All World" players in the fold longer because they then have to wait their turn to play enough to put up the kind of stats to get noticed, thereby "creating depth".

If this is the case, as a player, I wouldn't come to the U under this leadership. You play the best players period. As a player, if I think that my coaches aren't putting me in, in order to have me stay an additional year, forget about me coming here. You risk too many things that can negatively effect your ability to be drafted.

Furthermore, if this were the case, the coaches don't have the ultimate desire to be the best and win.

But it isn't the case. Guys on this board just make stuff up out of thin air when it comes to some of these topics.

 

[WestEndZone]

Even thought I think JF is a terrible DLine Coach, there is talent at the position.

I don't get how Chick can be ahead of anyone having missed almost the whole spring.

I was thinking the same thing. I wish they would just play the ballers instead of thinking they have to put these people in cause he has "experience" that's been our main downfall. play the guys that our balling. i didnt even see Chick in the spring game. he was the unnoticeable to me.

I agree with all of you. IMHO, I think AG and NoD are obsessed with having a senior-laden roster. So, they look at the matchups and if that young guy has yet to become "All World", you place him on second team even though he may be the better player. He still plays A LOT so fans and players don't ****, but he obviously plays second fiddle.

This would do 2 things:
1) Show loyalty to upperclassmen, and 2) Keep younger soon to be "All World" players in the fold longer because they then have to wait their turn to play enough to put up the kind of stats to get noticed, thereby "creating depth".

If this is the case, as a player, I wouldn't come to the U under this leadership. You play the best players period. As a player, if I think that my coaches aren't putting me in, in order to have me stay an additional year, forget about me coming here. You risk too many things that can negatively effect your ability to be drafted.

Furthermore, if this were the case, the coaches don't have the ultimate desire to be the best and win.

But it isn't the case. Guys on this board just make stuff up out of thin air when it comes to some of these topics.

McCord and AQM might become all world if they work their asses off. They're far from it. The only soon to be all world player we have right now on D is Chad. He's ready to play right now.

Our all world talents have played on offense, as freshmen (Duke and Stacy). Why would defense be different?

 

[Hstokes1447]

Anthony Chickillo played his freshman season Miami at 6'4 248. He is now 6'4 277 that is a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

Jadeveon Clowney played his freshman season at 6'6 245. He is now 6'6 274 that is also a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

This staff did not do anything that any other staff would done with this kid. The truth is Chick is a blue collar type of guy who is not athletic enough to make the flashy plays. He does his job, sets the edge, and give crazy effort on every play. I personally prefer Ufomba Kamalu over Chick because of his athleticism, but I appreciate what Chick brings and I think he has done an excellent job in his role.

How do you compare those two players? They have totally different frames.

Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri 6-4 230 as a freshman, he is now 6-4 274 as a redshirt JR entering the draft. That is a gain of 44 pounds in 4 years. Knoy and Chick have the exact same body type but they are night and day when it comes to athletic ability.

Soooo...

If they're night and day when it comes to athletic ability...

Why would you expect the same results after the weight gain?


Here were the choices...

1. Keep Chickillo around 255lbs where he can play 4-3 DE and continue to be productive
2. Put a bunch of weight on Chickillo and make him play 3-4 DE where he'll STILL be too small and (now) completely unexplosive

The point is regardless of size Chick was never going to be an explosive pass rushing DE that you guys seem to think he could have been at 255. In my opinion the additional weight allows him to do what his skill set allow, thats stop the run and set the edge. It is clear that Chick is playing his role as a run stopping DE very well, just look at his state and see for yourself.

SEASON Tackles TFL SACK
2011 38 6.5 5.0
2012 45 6.5 4.0
2013 46 7.5 3.5


Additional weight does not stop an explosive guy from being explosive, actually additional size and strength can make a guy more explosive. We can go back and look at the top DE's from the past 10 years and I am 100% sure that they all gained 20-30 pounds during their college careers.

Robert Quinn 6'4 240 HS SR, 6'4 265 NFL Rookie 25 pounds gained (19 sacks in 2013 for St. Louis Rams)
Greg Hardy 6'4 232 HS SR, 6'4 281 NFL Rookie 49 pounds gained (15 sacks in 2013 season for Carolina)
Cameron Jordan 6'4 250 HS SR, 6'4 287 NFL Rookie 37 pounds gained (12.5 sacks in 2013 season for New Orleans Saints)
Olivier Vernon 6'2 239 HS SR, 6'2 261 NFL Rookie 22 pounds gained (11.5 sacks in 2013 season for Miami Dolphins)

Has added weight stopped any of these guys from being explosive and getting to the QB?

 

[Coach Macho]

Define completely unproductive. It's arguable that his production increased every year. His total tackles went from 38, to 45, to 46. The only argument you can make at this point is that he has always been completely unproductive, including his freshman year.

I'm saying that cause he doesn't make plays. I don't really care about tackles from the DL position. I'm looking at TFL's and Sacks. How many of those 46 tackles were made while he was being driven 3 yards down the field in an attempt to 2-gap?

His TFL's went up too.

GTFOH!

He must've played more plays or something. I don't believe that. lol

He probably did play more plays, but I'm still focused on labeling him completely unproductive. It might have been a significant overstatement. The biggest problem with Chick is that he's always on the field. We had no one behind him last year. Kamalu was still learning how to play football; and he still is. The lack of depth hurt Chick. He plays with good technique, he's tough. He plays hard. He's durable.

Ok, a bit of an overstatement on my part. I simply don't remember this guy making an impact at all.

 

[WestEndZone]

Ok, a bit of an overstatement on my part. I simply don't remember this guy making an impact at all.

Oh for sure. He hasn't been very memorable lately.

 

[Coach Macho]

Anthony Chickillo played his freshman season Miami at 6'4 248. He is now 6'4 277 that is a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

Jadeveon Clowney played his freshman season at 6'6 245. He is now 6'6 274 that is also a 29 pound increase in 3 years.

This staff did not do anything that any other staff would done with this kid. The truth is Chick is a blue collar type of guy who is not athletic enough to make the flashy plays. He does his job, sets the edge, and give crazy effort on every play. I personally prefer Ufomba Kamalu over Chick because of his athleticism, but I appreciate what Chick brings and I think he has done an excellent job in his role.

How do you compare those two players? They have totally different frames.

Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri 6-4 230 as a freshman, he is now 6-4 274 as a redshirt JR entering the draft. That is a gain of 44 pounds in 4 years. Knoy and Chick have the exact same body type but they are night and day when it comes to athletic ability.

Soooo...

If they're night and day when it comes to athletic ability...

Why would you expect the same results after the weight gain?


Here were the choices...

1. Keep Chickillo around 255lbs where he can play 4-3 DE and continue to be productive
2. Put a bunch of weight on Chickillo and make him play 3-4 DE where he'll STILL be too small and (now) completely unexplosive

The point is regardless of size Chick was never going to be an explosive pass rushing DE that you guys seem to think he could have been at 255. In my opinion the additional weight allows him to do what his skill set allow, thats stop the run and set the edge. It is clear that Chick is playing his role as a run stopping DE very well, just look at his state and see for yourself.

SEASON Tackles TFL SACK
2011 38 6.5 5.0
2012 45 6.5 4.0
2013 46 7.5 3.5


Additional weight does not stop an explosive guy from being explosive, actually additional size and strength can make a guy more explosive. We can go back and look at the top DE's from the past 10 years and I am 100% sure that they all gained 20-30 pounds during their college careers.

Robert Quinn 6'4 240 HS SR, 6'4 265 NFL Rookie 25 pounds gained (19 sacks in 2013 for St. Louis Rams)
Greg Hardy 6'4 232 HS SR, 6'4 281 NFL Rookie 49 pounds gained (15 sacks in 2013 season for Carolina)
Cameron Jordan 6'4 250 HS SR, 6'4 287 NFL Rookie 37 pounds gained (12.5 sacks in 2013 season for New Orleans Saints)
Olivier Vernon 6'2 239 HS SR, 6'2 261 NFL Rookie 22 pounds gained (11.5 sacks in 2013 season for Miami Dolphins)

Has added weight stopped any of these guys from being explosive and getting to the QB?

I get your point, and it's a good one, but I respectfully disagree about Chickillo.

I think in a 4-3 scheme he would've been much more productive by now.

 

[Gatorhater]

Jethro Franklin
Franklin returned to Fresno State to coach the defensive line from 1991–1998, this term included a pair of NFL coaching fellowships, working with the Buffalo Bills in the summer of 1994 and the Cleveland Browns in the summer of 1995. In 1999 he coached the interior defensive line for UCLA. He then served as Defensive Line Coach for the Green Bay Packers from 2000–2004, USC for the 2005 season, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for 2006 season, and the Houston Texans from 2007-2008 before returning to USC as the defensive line coach in 2009.[1] He moved to coach the Defensive line at Temple Owls in 2010 and moved again in 2011 with Al Golden who had been hired to coach the Miami Hurricanes, as coach of the Defensive line and current is there.

Well, he is good at getting jobs. Still don't know if he can coach.