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DAILY DEBATE: What is the biggest reason for Miami’s struggles the past 20 years?

Quarterback.

Since 2004, we have started:
Kirby Freeman
Kyle Wright
Robert Marve
Jacory Harris
Stephen Morris
Brad Kaaya
Malik Rosier
N'Kosi Perry
Jarren Williams
D'Eriq King
Tyler Van Dyke
Jake Garcia
Jacurri Brown
Emory Williams
Cam Ward

2004-2023 average: 3031 yards, 58%, 22 TD, 13 int
2013-2023 average: 3228 yards, 59.6%, 24 TD, 11 int

We've had one QB (Kaaya) drafted since Dorsey in 2003.

He was the 31st pick in the 6th round and was our highest drafted QB since Erickson was the 20th pick in the 5th round, backc in 1991.

Cam will be the ONLY QB we've had drafted before the 5th round since Walsh back in 1989.
 
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SCarolina Ibis said:
Quarterback.

I posted this in another thread.

Since 2004, we have started:
Kirby Freeman
Kyle Wright
Robert Marve
Jacory Harris
Stephen Morris
Brad Kaaya
Malik Rosier
N'Kosi Perry
Jarren Williams
D'Eriq King
Tyler Van Dyke
Jake Garcia
Jacurri Brown
Emory Williams
Cam Ward

We've had one QB (Kaaya) drafted since Dorsey in 2003.

He was the 31st pick in the 6th round and was our highest drafted QB since Erickson was the 20th pick in the 5th round, backc in 1991.

Cam will be the ONLY QB we've had drafted before the 5th round since Walsh back in 1989.
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And if you look back at this list everyone of but Morris, Rosier, and Emory were blue chip recruits (either HS or portal).

Texas had something similar take place for about a decade.
 
I will be a contrarian and say it is because we are a smallish private school.

I think this topic starts with the assumption that we should have been good but failed. I think the opposite is probably more accurate. We had no business being as good as we were and took the world by storm for a couple of decades. The rest is a return to the mean.

Many of the reasons noted above (funding, facilities, stadium, student support, focus outside of athletics) are all off-shoots of being a smallish private school.

No private school has consistently overcome this hurdle. Notre Dame cycles up and down but they have the collective power of history and religion on their side to function beyond their footprint. USC has also had some periodic success but they are also 2.5x our size and have many of the advantages of a state school.

Beyond that, you have a series of schools that have had cups of coffee as nationally relevant: Stanford, GT, TCU, Baylor, etc. Many private schools our size don't even have D1 football teams.

We were an outlier. We won by changing the game to speed and attitude. It worked for awhile but then everyone else caught on. Once they started playing our game and investing heavily to outflank us, then we settled back into the pack.

We certainly should have been better considering some of the self-inflicted mistakes made along the way. Certainly, we often looked better on paper for sure. But it is folly to assume that our default position should have always been highly ranked and nationally relevant. It simply defies the nature of college football which favors large state schools with giant on-campus stadiums and enormous student bodies and alumni.
 
genxcane said:
I will be a contrarian and say it is because we are a smallish private school.

I think this topic starts with the assumption that we should have been good but failed. I think the opposite is probably more accurate. We had no business being as good as we were and took the world by storm for a couple of decades. The rest is a return to the mean.

Many of the reasons noted above (funding, facilities, stadium, student support, focus outside of athletics) are all off-shoots of being a smallish private school.

No private school has consistently overcome this hurdle. Notre Dame cycles up and down but they have the collective power of history and religion on their side to function beyond their footprint. USC has also had some periodic success but they are also 2.5x our size and have many of the advantages of a state school.

Beyond that, you have a series of schools that have had cups of coffee as nationally relevant: Stanford, GT, TCU, Baylor, etc. Many private schools our size don't even have D1 football teams.

We were an outlier. We won by changing the game to speed and attitude. It worked for awhile but then everyone else caught on. Once they started playing our game and investing heavily to outflank us, then we settled back into the pack.

We certainly should have been better considering some of the self-inflicted mistakes made along the way. Certainly, we often looked better on paper for sure. But it is folly to assume that our default position should have always been highly ranked and nationally relevant. It simply defies the nature of college football which favors large state schools with giant on-campus stadiums and enormous student bodies and alumni.
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Spot on! Close thread.
 
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SCarolina Ibis said:
Quarterback.

Since 2004, we have started:
Kirby Freeman
Kyle Wright
Robert Marve
Jacory Harris
Stephen Morris
Brad Kaaya
Malik Rosier
N'Kosi Perry
Jarren Williams
D'Eriq King
Tyler Van Dyke
Jake Garcia
Jacurri Brown
Emory Williams
Cam Ward

2004-2023 average: 3031 yards, 58%, 22 TD, 13 int
2013-2013 average: 3228 yards, 59.6%, 24 TD, 11 int

We've had one QB (Kaaya) drafted since Dorsey in 2003.

He was the 31st pick in the 6th round and was our highest drafted QB since Erickson was the 20th pick in the 5th round, backc in 1991.

Cam will be the ONLY QB we've had drafted before the 5th round since Walsh back in 1989.
Click to expand...
THIS.

The dearth of high-level players is staggering.
 
(Off the top of the dome before I go read all y'all's answers)

1. University leadership in way over its head when it comes to properly supporting, managing and hiring for a Top 10-caliber program

2. An insular UM community's disconnect from (and disdain for) the program's wide-ranging and disparate fan base

3. Miami/Dade politics, which, when coupled with #1, has been a recipe for disaster

4. The inevitable decline as a result of joining the ACC, where UM could collectively half-*** it in football and remain .500-ish or so because most of the schools in the conference aren't seriously committed to the sport

5. UM's infamously "one foot in, one foot out" fan base not doing our part
 
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FuriousStyles said:
If it isn’t one thing it’s another.
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Judge Joe Brown GIF


Nailed it in 7 words
 
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SPFRcane said:
Living off past glory and not changing with the times by understanding the importance of big time college football. Shalaya effect tried to kill this program.
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Spot on… I remember the lack of investment in coaching salary dollars in and around the Al Golden years here. The refusal to ante up when all the other big names went all in put us so far behind in every facet of having a successful program. We wanted to be cheap.

And we definitely “got what we paid for” from it.
 
Cane30 said:
Money, money, money, money, Money, got to have it. No need in reading a post in this thread, everything listed falls under Money.
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Why have Texas and Texas A&M — with (in)arguably more resources at their disposal than any other schools — been far from dominant over the last two-plus decades?
 
genxcane said:
No private school has consistently overcome this hurdle. Notre Dame cycles up and down but they have the collective power of history and religion on their side to function beyond their footprint. USC has also had some periodic success but they are also 2.5x our size and have many of the advantages of a state school.
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Terrific post.

The part quoted above is worth digging deeper
 
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Empirical Cane said:
I nevah, NEVAH argue with Brooklyndee...

HOWEVER...

quick question...

in your day, did we lose guys of your caliber to other teams strictly because of a bag?

would you say Miami alleged unwillingness to play as much that dark game hampered the recruiting program?
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You guys have never listened to what I've said relating to recruiting though brother. WE WERE NEVER THAT SCHOOL THROWING AROUND BAGS. WE WERE NEVER THAT SCHOOL THAT RECRUITED AT A HIGH LEVEL AND THATS WHY WE WON. NEVER. I'm out years where we dominated we would get several highly rated kids and we would offset that with ELITE COORDINATORS, ELITE POSITION COACHES & MOST OFF ELITE DEVELOPMENT... This false narrative about recruiting didn't come into play until social media became what it is. Again that's not saying we wouldn't land some highly rated kids. Cause we would. But it was an exception. Not a rule. We've never recruited at a sustained level like this. With Butch wed NAIL out evals and develop the **** out of us. Iron sharpens iron. Now we just see that far less often because it's a flat out business now. Kids aren't willing to sit and wait their turns while they develop. They wanna be paid and they feel they're superstars from the second they walk in because that's what their community tells them. Being humble no longer exists. Anyways before the rant, we always lost out on kids over bags. It was always bags or a disagreement on what position they should play. One quick example would be Patrick Johnson(Peterson) we lost him to LSU over 75k and a house in baton rouge. Even when we were doing pell grant **** that wasn't a way to get kids in. That's what was going on once on campus and it was a relatively short period in time. Now is the first time ever where we've basically been able to level the field when it comes to acquiring talent. Because it's legal. But it's still a **** dirty game. At this level it's no longer evals (for the most part)or acquiring talent. It's what you can do from a coaching perspective to make that talent stand out.
 
Canedude08 said:
The arms race didn't get going until later in the decade(Saban going to Bama, and bringing an NFL mindset to the collegiate ranks, where he could overwhelm people with superior organizational resources). That's when things started to turn. Would it have helped had the donors and administrators paid attention? Yes, but I'm not going to pretend that they should have seen something that no one saw coming at the beginning of the decade.

Miami should have started building the moment it became evident that college sports that turned the corner and became totally professionalized.
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Respectfully disagree. I think it stated before Saban to Bama. It absolutely went to another level after he got there but it had already begun. My main point is that it's easier and ultimately cheaper to invest when you are up than when you are behind and trying to catch up. We didn't do it until it was too late.
 
bshaw28 said:
QB play. We're one of the worst in the ACC in the last 20 years
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Bingo. **** near Every other ACC team has had better QBs suit up for them then in the last 20 years then us (Sans Ward.) Even freaking Louisville had Lamar Jackson and Teddy Bridgewater guys from our own backyard smfh, while we had Malik Rosier as our QB on our only 10 win team of 2010s. Had fans celebrating landing Tate Martell thats how bad its been :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Canedog said:
Leaving the Orange Bowl for a stadium that’s h€ll and gone from Coral Gables and was built on a sacred Indian burial ground.
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Yur chief (no pun attimpted) rivel iz da semanoles, yur bildin on top a ***** burying grownd, wat part a dat don’t raize no problem in yur mine? Jus stoopid iffin u ax me. U don’t go f’n rownd wit haints in such.
 
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