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DAILY DEBATE: What is the biggest reason for Miami’s struggles the past 20 years?

WOW, where to start in somewhat sequential order
- failure to get B.Davis signed, Coker was awful
- lack of investment when other schools were in an arms race doubled our pain
- revolving door at the AD level
- pretty unsuccessful run of bad HC's and staff, $$$$ was an issue
- awful player development ( 20 + year problem
-- leaving the Orange bowl, city would have sold it for a song
- awful BOT + Donna for far to long
- cashing ACC welfare checks, and not investing in program
- lack of investment S&C, nutrition program etc.
- competent staff, ( back up staff)
- entitled players, attitude was hey i will be here for a couple of years and then Sunday $$$$. awful culture as a result
Mario might not be the savior we were all hoping for but $$$$ is coming in
and we are not a national joke anymore
 
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DMoney said:
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Talent acquisition is the biggest on-field reason.

Lack of funding until 2018 allowed a huge gap to grow between us and other schools. For a little while we could still go by the recent success during the early Coker years, but the further we became from those days, the less relevant it became to recruiting. And thus we solidified ourselves as a second tier power.

The NCAA being a blocker for Alabama, LSU, and a small number of other schools was another big factor. They would have loved to nail Miami for the Shapiro mess, because as a well known non-blue blood we would have been the perfect program to hurt. Their own ineptitude kept them from delivering the likely 4 year bowl ban/4 year loss of ten scholarships per year penalty that they wanted to deliver. And as much as the investigation into us hurt, allowing certain schools to run impeded into S Florida (and other areas) was even worse. When a school can allegedly offer $300K pre NIL without a whiff of investigation, yet Miami is facing a death penalty for $1K in gifts...it's hard to compete. Especially when the school is on probation.

Fun fact...I've surveyed the rosters from 2006 to 2025, examining the composite average of each position group. Here's how many position groups (out of 10, excluding special teams) had a rating of .9000 or higher each year.

2006: 3 out 10
2007 - 2008: NYA
2009: 4 out of 10
2010: 5 out of 10
2011: NYA, but likely 4-5
2012: 1 out of 10
2013: 1 out of 10
2014: 2 out of 10
2015: 2 out of 10
2016 - 2018: NYA, but likely between 2 and 3
2019: 3 out of 10
2020: 5 out of 10
2021: 4 out of 10
2022: 5 out of 10
2023: 6 out of 10
2024: 6 out of 10
2025: 8 out of 10

From 2006 onward, Miami never had a majority of its position rooms that averaged out to a blue chip ranking until 2023. And only with this upcoming season does that become a strong majority of position groups (only tight end and offensive line fall below .9000 on average).

I'm
 
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GojiraCane said:
Talent acquisition is the biggest on-field reason.

Lack of funding until 2018 allowed a huge gap to grow between us and other schools. For a little while we could still go by the recent success during the early Coker years, but the further we became from those days, the less relevant it became to recruiting. And thus we solidified ourselves as a second tier power.

The NCAA being a blocker for Alabama, LSU, and a small number of other schools was another big factor. They would have loved to nail Miami for the Shapiro mess, because as a well known non-blue blood we would have been the perfect program to hurt. Their own ineptitude kept them from delivering the likely 4 year bowl ban/4 year loss of ten scholarships per year penalty that they wanted to deliver. And as much as the investigation into us hurt, allowing certain schools to run impeded into S Florida (and other areas) was even worse. When a school can allegedly offer $300K pre NIL without a whiff of investigation, yet Miami is facing a death penalty for $1K in gifts...it's hard to compete. Especially when the school is on probation.

Fun fact...I've surveyed the rosters from 2006 to 2025, examining the composite average of each position group. Here's how many position groups (out of 10, excluding special teams) had a rating of .9000 or higher each year.

2006: 3 out 10
2007 - 2008: NYA
2009: 4 out of 10
2010: 5 out of 10
2011: NYA, but likely 4-5
2012: 1 out of 10
2013: 1 out of 10
2014: 2 out of 10
2015: 2 out of 10
2016 - 2018: NYA, but likely between 2 and 3
2019: 3 out of 10
2020: 5 out of 10
2021: 4 out of 10
2022: 5 out of 10
2023: 6 out of 10
2024: 6 out of 10
2025: 8 out of 10

From 2006 onward, Miami never had a majority of its position rooms that averaged out to a blue chip ranking until 2023. And only with this upcoming season does that become a strong majority of position groups (only tight end and offensive line fall below .9000 on average).

I'm
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Interesting info - hopefully it matters this year
 
ThomasM said:
Yes. Remember, we **** near lost a couple games in 2001 because of pitiful game prep by Coker. BC and VT should have never been close. Barry Alvarez wasn't going to come in and try to reinvent the wheel. Everyone knew our team was loaded and should have won it all in 2000.

A good comparison would be when we hired Jimmy Johnson. People were livid we didn't hire from within. JJ was going to have us running the wishbone. JJ could never beat OU or Nebraska. We all know how that turned out.

I'll go one step further. Not only do we win it in 2001. We probably win it in 2002 as well.
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And we likely win that Tennessee game in 2002, meaning that at worst we're a one loss team.

And I'd presume that we would recruit better in 2003 and beyond.
 
The U is back to work said:
Interesting info - hopefully it matters this year
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Yep.

Slowly putting together a grid that shows how the position groups have changed over the last 20 years. Here's a partial example:

1739842628273.png
 
CaneinBroward said:
Actually, I think you're making his point with that example. In 1984 (JJ's first year), the Canes didn't contend for a national title like they had in 1983. They lost 5 games.

I do agree with you though Barry would have won in 2001 - as long as the players stayed (and I think most would have since transfer rules weren't as relaxed then as they are now). If a bunch of them jumped ship, maybe then they don't win it all. But just a coaching change and with all that talent? My mother-in-law could have been HC and won the title that year. The same goes for 2002. How Coker let the Suckeyes even compete in that game let alone win it still ****es me off to this day.
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That 84 team had more holes than the 2001 team. My point was that hiring a real coach is better than hiring an assistant with no experience. Alvarez, like JJ, had experience in building and maintaining a program.
 
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Lack of serious financial investment into the football program. After the 2001 championship was the moment to invest serious money into the program. They didn't and other programs got way ahead. JMO
 
ThomasM said:
That 84 team had more holes than the 2001 team. My point was that hiring a real coach is better than hiring an assistant with no experience. Alvarez, like JJ, had experience in building and maintaining a program.
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I agree. Just pointing out that it's not always plug and play. In the 2001 case, you could plug in anyone and they would win it all. In fact, you could say they did. lol
 
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Theres a few things but since I have to pick one I'd say just a total lack of organization in the program. I still think where lacking in that department even though things have gotten better
 
ThomasM said:
That 84 team had more holes than the 2001 team. My point was that hiring a real coach is better than hiring an assistant with no experience. Alvarez, like JJ, had experience in building and maintaining a program.
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Whereas after Butch, three of the next six HCs had no head coaching experience at all (Coker, Shannon, Diaz). Really a decade of two back to back coaches with no HC experience (2001-2011).
 
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Torocane said:
Lack of serious financial investment into the football program. After the 2001 championship was the moment to invest serious money into the program. They didn't and other programs got way ahead. JMO
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The arms race didn't get going until later in the decade(Saban going to Bama, and bringing an NFL mindset to the collegiate ranks, where he could overwhelm people with superior organizational resources). That's when things started to turn. Would it have helped had the donors and administrators paid attention? Yes, but I'm not going to pretend that they should have seen something that no one saw coming at the beginning of the decade.

Miami should have started building the moment it became evident that college sports that turned the corner and became totally professionalized.
 
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