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DAILY DEBATE: What is the biggest reason for Miami’s struggles the past 20 years?

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Alex_Dynamix said:
Bingo. **** near Every other ACC team has had better QBs suit up for them then in the last 20 years then us (Sans Ward.) Even freaking Louisville had Lamar Jackson and Teddy Bridgewater guys from our own backyard smfh, while we had Malik Rosier as our QB on our only 10 win team of 2010s. Had fans celebrating landing Tate Martell thats how bad its been :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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Tell me something. Do you think if we land Lamar Jackson He's the same person for us that he was for Louisville? Same question for Teddy Bridgewater. Because during alfraud golden's time quarterback wasn't necessarily the issue. Steven Morris Brad Kayya they were both pretty effective. If you mention Malik rozier even though he had his little records all of us said no football no he sucked, no argument in that. That **** eater from Texas that I can't think of his name right now who threw for like 12 yards in an entire game but he beat Florida State once y'all thought he was great. That's another one no argument in that. Overall though I'd probably take exception with quarterback play being blamed as the reason for our failures.
 
There's no 1 particular reason, but rather a mixture of several factors.

1. Coaching sucked since Butch left - this includes talent eval. Coker - not head coach material - lost whatever momentum we had built up; Shannon - totally inept and clueless; Golden - Just a bad fit; MR - past his prime; Manny- inexperienced and over his head; Mario - remains to be seen.

2. Resources - the University never devoted the financial resources to the program until MC came onboard. Hard to compete that way.

3. The recruiting game changed and we got left behind. Back in the day I remember perusing thru the pages of Sporting News for word on the next class. Then the internet came along and recruiting changed. Recruiting is now a 24/7/365 big business and everyone knows who the top dogs are. It's more national now - and that favors schools with more resources (legal and illegal).

So, when you mix those 3 factors in, you get the last 25 years. Butch leaving was the beginning of the end.
 
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Torocane said:
Respectfully disagree. I think it stated before Saban to Bama. It absolutely went to another level after he got there but it had already begun. My main point is that it's easier and ultimately cheaper to invest when you are up than when you are behind and trying to catch up. We didn't do it until it was too late.
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The issue is that the large state schools had always outspent us, and Miami won anyway. What made Saban's method much more dangerous was that he was spending on more than shiny facilities(Which the large state schools had done for decades), he had enough support staff to ensure that his student athletes had NFL level support. That wasn't really heard of before Saban, outside of Oregon, who had been overspending once Phil Knight got serious about supporting Oregon football.

I think some of the Miami administration ignored what was happening because "We've won for most of the last twenty years, despite these big schools spending more than us, it doesn't matter". That turned out to be the wrong mindset. If you were going to have that mindset, you had to have a bold hiring strategy in regards to coaches and ADs. Miami didn't. You don't end up hiring guys like Coker, Shannon and Diaz if you are trying to maximize the program. A school like Ohio State can take a chance on Larry Coker, if he fails, they can overspend for a big name to succeed him. Miami couldn't take that chance, Miami had to make the best possible hire, and have an AD with an eye for talent, which Miami hasn't had since Jankovich.
 
Brooklyndee said:
Tell me something. Do you think if we land Lamar Jackson He's the same person for us that he was for Louisville? Same question for Teddy Bridgewater. Because during alfraud golden's time quarterback wasn't necessarily the issue. Steven Morris Brad Kayya they were both pretty effective. If you mention Malik rozier even though he had his little records all of us said no football no he sucked, no argument in that. That **** eater from Texas that I can't think of his name right now who threw for like 12 yards in an entire game but he beat Florida State once y'all thought he was great. That's another one no argument in that. Overall though I'd probably take exception with quarterback play being blamed as the reason for our failures.
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that argument probably would be more true for Bridgewater maybe but dude was official, Lamar Jackson was special though saw him play in HS and im not surprised one bit that hes where hes at right now i believe he would've been special wherever he went including Miami he had the drive/competitiveness to be great he wouldve at least raised the floor. Brad Kaaya was cool/wasnt really a difference maker imo we maybe couldve did sumn if he came back instead opting to flame out as 5th/6th round backup, But could you imagine a talent like Ward on the 2017 squad smh...QB certainly isnt the ONLY reason of course but its 1a/1b with coaching for me.
 
Alex_Dynamix said:
that argument probably would be more true for Bridgewater maybe but dude was official, Lamar Jackson was special though saw him play in HS and im not surprised one bit that hes where hes at right now i believe he would've been special wherever he went including Miami he had the drive/competitiveness to be great he wouldve at least raised the floor. Brad Kaaya was cool/wasnt really a difference maker imo we maybe couldve did sumn if he came back instead opting to flame out as 5th/6th round backup, But could you imagine a talent like Ward on the 2017 squad smh...QB certainly isnt the ONLY reason of course but its 1a/1b with coaching for me.
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Being honest with you Lamar Jackson wouldn't have even started here. We weren't running the kind of offense he could have ran. He had a very good college coach for the player that he was. There's a reason most schools weren't even offering him as a quarterback. I get we have all that stuff out now of Teddy's saying the reason he didn't come here because he was committed to a black coach and this and that. I know for a fact Alfred Golden told him he wasn't the kind of quarterback we wanted here and people getting spin it however they want including him but Alfred didn't even want that dude which is an indictment in itself cuz I agree teddy was pretty **** good but I don't think quarterback play was our problem at that period of time regardless. Let's look at it as this when Alfred Golden was the coach and Steven Morris was a quarterback or Brad kaaya was the quarterback did we not have a pretty effective offense? Our problem was we were playing prevent 95% of the time as a base defense. So no that's not quarterback play that caused us to lose those games I'm sure I'm not the only one that remembers teams having first and goal at the two yard line second and goal at the 1 yd line 3rd and go at the one yard line and we have our linebackers our corners and our safeties playing off... Those were the reasons we were losing stupidity from a coaching perspective we had plenty of talent we just had a defensive coordinator that had mush for brains
 
Brooklyndee said:
Tell me something. Do you think if we land Lamar Jackson He's the same person for us that he was for Louisville? Same question for Teddy Bridgewater. Because during alfraud golden's time quarterback wasn't necessarily the issue. Steven Morris Brad Kayya they were both pretty effective. If you mention Malik rozier even though he had his little records all of us said no football no he sucked, no argument in that. That **** eater from Texas that I can't think of his name right now who threw for like 12 yards in an entire game but he beat Florida State once y'all thought he was great. That's another one no argument in that. Overall though I'd probably take exception with quarterback play being blamed as the reason for our failures.
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Kirby freeman?
 
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Brooklyndee said:
Being honest with you Lamar Jackson wouldn't have even started here. We weren't running the kind of offense he could have ran. He had a very good college coach for the player that he was. There's a reason most schools weren't even offering him as a quarterback. I get we have all that stuff out now of Teddy's saying the reason he didn't come here because he was committed to a black coach and this and that. I know for a fact Alfred Golden told him he wasn't the kind of quarterback we wanted here and people getting spin it however they want including him but Alfred didn't even want that dude which is an indictment in itself cuz I agree teddy was pretty **** good but I don't think quarterback play was our problem at that period of time regardless. Let's look at it as this when Alfred Golden was the coach and Steven Morris was a quarterback or Brad kaaya was the quarterback did we not have a pretty effective offense? Our problem was we were playing prevent 95% of the time as a base defense. So no that's not quarterback play that caused us to lose those games I'm sure I'm not the only one that remembers teams having first and goal at the two yard line second and goal at the 1 yd line 3rd and go at the one yard line and we have our linebackers our corners and our safeties playing off... Those were the reasons we were losing stupidity from a coaching perspective we had plenty of talent we just had a defensive coordinator that had mush for brains
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Yes your'e right Miami wasnt even interested in him we always preffered "Pro Style" types but could never land an Elite one to save our lives... I agree with your points about the al golden era im just saying we couldve made more runs at a ACC titles had we landed an elite QB or two along the way since coaching certainly wasnt gonna get us there. We were in the hunt this yr while having an atrocious defense simply cuz our QB was elite... if brad kaaya was our QB this yr we finish somewhere around 7-6 maybe worse. Most important positon on the field and weve been below there average since 2001.
 
Alex_Dynamix said:
Nah we had alot of MID/****** QBs. Terrible Evaluations there on the most important position. Finally hit big on Ward and it was only for one year We still havent recruited a stud/elite HS QB going on 25-30 years prolly longer its sad.
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I have to disagree. I think Stephen Morris and Brad Kaaya were good enough to win the ACC. Certainly better than most of the QBs in the ACC to win.
 
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Bird4um said:
Nothing to do with the the kids we brought into the school to play?
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In the 80’s, we weren’t bringing in high profile players. Sure, there were a few that were well above average, but for the most part, they were just hard working team players. The difference was Schnelly brought in his pro style offense that CFB hadn’t seen before and didn’t know how to defend it. He also had an exceptional coaching staff.

JJ stayed with that offense - for the most part - and improved the defense again using exceptional player evals - not necessarily high profile recruits. Dennis took the offense to another level but lost control of the team that eventually led to the “lost” 90’s.
 
Maskoff407 said:
I have to disagree. I think Stephen Morris and Brad Kaaya were good enough to win the ACC. Certainly better than most of the QBs in the ACC to win.
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If you disagree that's fine, The two you mentioned were decent guys who could maybe win u one on stacked teams sure, but the Fact is 0 elite QBs until Cam who was 1 yr rental and 0 titles to show for it. For the record im not saying QB is the Only reason but its important, the biggest reason to me was terrible Coaching no doubt.
 
Donna Shalala and the rest of the UM hierarchy that didn’t give a **** about sports and funded it like a local hotdog stand.
 
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grover said:
NCAA — allowed others to drop bags at the same time as it prohibited Miami from doing so

Shalala — consistently underinvested in football. I doubt she would have invested appropriately even if we had fair treatment
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ACC refs chose to **** us at pivotal moments(especially int he first decade) often leading to us missing the acc title game in years where we were poised to win it.
 
I'm not sure why we do this exercise. It's never one thing. There's no panacea. Just off the top of my head you had:

Ill-fitting head coaches
2nd tier huge recruiting misses
Bad character and culture throughout the program (was at times way worse than people realized)
Bad/strained relationships with local coaches and influencers (Shannon and Golden *really* set us back here)
Pre-NIL competitive $$ disadvantage (this one was way bigger than anyone wants to admit)
Lack of financial investment in the program
Subpar facilities
And a routinely half empty stadium still matters, although not at much as it used to. And we're never solving that one.
 
423Hurricane said:
In the 80’s, we weren’t bringing in high profile players. Sure, there were a few that were well above average, but for the most part, they were just hard working team players. The difference was Schnelly brought in his pro style offense that CFB hadn’t seen before and didn’t know how to defend it. He also had an exceptional coaching staff.

JJ stayed with that offense - for the most part - and improved the defense again using exceptional player evals - not necessarily high profile recruits. Dennis took the offense to another level but lost control of the team that eventually led to the “lost” 90’s.
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Dear god!!!
 
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