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MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

What's it been worth for those eight private schools in the Northeast to have "Ivy League" affixed to their brand all these years? Probably billion$.

That's the same sort of path the BIG and SEC are seeking by separating themselves — officially or unofficially — from the rest of Division I athletics.

Those two conferences will be the big leagues and everything else will perceived to be second tier or lower.

Period
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Yeah. And you've got an alternative explanation.

There is no logical non-CSA reason for elevating UVa over every other target other than UNC. It's insanity.

And maybe you haven't dealt with a lot of wealthy 60-year old businessmen in the deep south. But to be so dismissive of their motivations is hilarious.

For over 150 years, the whole "Lost Cause"/"the South will rise again" stuff has been widespread. I can name certain posters on this board who have posted that there will be another civil war soon. To ignore that is just misguided.

Yes, the SEC wants to add UNC and UVa. There are reasons, both spoken and unspoken.
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Outside of my time in the military, I’ve lived in the south my whole life (I’m 36). Obviously there are idiots that think that way. I’m sure to some extent it might play a role in their thinking, but I just don’t believe it’s a major factor when it comes to adding schools. I’d say people in NC and VA (to a lesser extent) share common values to people in TN and GA. I just don’t think there are people in meetings at SEC headquarters talking about which schools to add that would pay homage to the confederacy.
 
Hold My Beer said:
One can easily argue the SEC could expand with FSU, Clemson, Miami and Virginia Tech and control every single brand in College Football worth a **** (past or present) south of the Ohio River.

One can also argue having the dominant presence (i.e. more than one Power Conference school) in good-sized and growing Southern states like North Carolina and Virginia is worth having — even if those football programs for the most part have been mediocre or worse, attendance has been spotty (cough, cough) and TV ratings less than stellar (although any school moving from the ACC to the SEC or B1G will see its viewership numbers rise).

Realignment is about more than just "footballl, football, football" and "what do the TV folks want???" ... Conferences are collectively looking to expand footprint and reach, elevate brands, widen the gap between the haves and have-nots while all the while increasing and reinforcing the value, prestige and attractiveness of the institutions themselves as we move into an era where many are questioning the wisdom of spending well into six figures for a college education.

jmo
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And this is why I have been pointing out that VaTech is, by far, the stronger candidate (at least compared to UVa). The MASSIVE game that VaTech played against Tennessee at Bristol Motor Speedway is a great example of what could happen if VaTech joined the SEC. And you could find just as many (if not marginally more) VaTech fans in the DC area as UVa.

Even though Blacksburg is a bit southwest of Charlottesville, those two towns are only 150 miles apart. Neither one is in the DC television market or the Norfolk/Virginia Beach television market.

There is POTENTIAL in the state of Virginia, but it is not nearly the same growth curve as you would see with adding UNC in North Carolina. And VaTech is the better choice over UVa, but VaTech doesn't even seem to be in the SEC Top 4 candidates.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
And this is why I have been pointing out that VaTech is, by far, the stronger candidate (at least compared to UVa). The MASSIVE game that VaTech played against Tennessee at Bristol Motor Speedway is a great example of what could happen if VaTech joined the SEC. And you could find just as many (if not marginally more) VaTech fans in the DC area as UVa.

Even though Lynchburg is a bit southwest of Charlottesville, those two towns are only 68 miles apart. Neither one is in the DC television market or the Norfolk/Virginia Beach television market.

There is POTENTIAL in the state of Virginia, but it is not nearly the same growth curve as you would see with adding UNC in North Carolina. And VaTech is the better choice over UVa, but VaTech doesn't even seem to be in the SEC Top 4 candidates.
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They also seem to want flagship schools, hence UVA over VT.
 
JennStrawley’sBabyDaddy said:
Outside of my time in the military, I’ve lived in the south my whole life (I’m 36). Obviously there are idiots that think that way. I’m sure to some extent it might play a role in their thinking, but I just don’t believe it’s a major factor when it comes to adding schools. I’d say people in NC and VA (to a lesser extent) share common values to people in TN and GA. I just don’t think there are people in meetings at SEC headquarters talking about which schools to add that would pay homage to the confederacy.
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It is not necessarily "paying homage to the confederacy" for the SEC (Southeastern Conference) to want to add Southeastern regional schools TO the SEC, given that the Southeastern region is home to the most fanatical college football fanbases. Both UNC and UVA believe their football programs would improve as being IN the SEC would enable them to keep 4-5 star players home, that currently leave for SEC programs.
 
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JennStrawley’sBabyDaddy said:
Outside of my time in the military, I’ve lived in the south my whole life (I’m 36). Obviously there are idiots that think that way. I’m sure to some extent it might play a role in their thinking, but I just don’t believe it’s a major factor when it comes to adding schools. I’d say people in NC and VA (to a lesser extent) share common values to people in TN and GA. I just don’t think there are people in meetings at SEC headquarters talking about which schools to add that would pay homage to the confederacy.
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I get it. You're younger. You "don't see color". You think "racism is over".

And, sure, I'm generalizing there, for humor and contrast. I'm not REALLY trying to tell you how YOU feel, but I can understand why younger people overlook all of the UNSPOKEN stuff that motivates older people in the Deep South in their thinking and behavioral processes.

I've already laid it out in greater detail. UVa is a TERRIBLE choice to bring in "Virginia" as a market. VaTech is a bit better, but also benefits from proximity to NC and TN and KY in terms of "fit" and "rivalry". And the Big 10 addition of Maryland, which is literally located INSIDE THE DC BELTWAY, has proven that it is easier "said" than "done" when it comes to delivering the DC market.

Again, you focus on formal markers of human behavior. Was there a meeting at SEC HQ where "The South Will Rise Again" was seen on a written meeting agenda? No. Does this kind of thing motivate MANY Deep South movers and shakers? Absolutely. With a little sprinkle of SEC arrogance in "we prefer flagship schools over tech schools". But that's why UVa is #2 on the SEC ranking.

Assuming no new political impediments, UNC-UVA will happen before F$U-Clemson. But I hope the SEC takes 4-6 schools.
 
Rickd said:
It is not necessarily "paying homage to the confederacy" for the SEC (Southeastern Conference) to want to add Southeastern regional schools TO the SEC, given that the Southeastern region is home to the most fanatical college football fanbases. Both UNC and UVA believe their football programs would improve as being IN the SEC would enable them to keep 4-5 star players home, that currently leave for SEC programs.
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It actually is when it comes to UVa. Sorry if you don't see it.

UVa will be the new Vanderbilt of the SEC. Good in hoops/baseball.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
There is POTENTIAL in the state of Virginia, but it is not nearly the same growth curve as you would see with adding UNC in North Carolina. And VaTech is the better choice over UVa, but VaTech doesn't even seem to be in the SEC Top 4 candidates.
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1. Just as FSU/Clemson are posturing with the SEC or B1G "dilemma" in order to create leverage, Sankey can do something similar by relaying through Pete Thamel that UNC and UVA are at the top of the SEC's expansion to do list. "We want those two schools and we want to feed the considerable egos of the decision-makers at those two fine academic institutions by making everyone aware we want them even more than the Big Ten does"

2. The Top 4 matters if the SEC stops at 20. IMO, the SEC won't stop at 20. And if UNC, NC State, UVA and VA Tech all get in alongside FSU and Clemson, then that Top 4 ranking doesn't mean jack and Sankey can dismiss it the day the expansion announcement is made
 
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Hold My Beer said:
1. Just as FSU/Clemson are posturing with the SEC or B1G "dilemma" in order to create leverage, Sankey can do something similar by relaying through Pete Thamel that UNC and UVA are at the top of the SEC's expansion to do list. "We want those two schools and we want to feed the considerable egos of the decision-makers at those two fine academic institutions by making everyone aware we want them even more than the Big Ten does"

2. The Top 4 matters if the SEC stops at 20. IMO, the SEC won't stop at 20. And if UNC, NC State, UVA and VA Tech all get in alongside FSU and Clemson, then that Top 4 ranking doesn't mean jack and Sankey can dismiss it the day the expansion announcement is made
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It's funny to see people acting like these are just "leaks to one guy in the media".

I know how the SEC operates. I'm friends with someone who worked in the WVU Athletic Department, and who was there during the aTm/Mizzou expansion decision. The SEC spent a lot of time vetting WVU, financially, demographically, culturally. How the SEC does things now (since the mess with Miami in 1990-ish) is to go out and do all of the due diligence with multiple potential schools, even if they only take 2.

aTm was a slam dunk, and Mizzou edged out WVU for the second slot.

If you choose to believe that the SEC is doing its business in the media with media leaks, and that the reports of UNC/UVA are merely "creating leverage" and "feeding considerable egos", that is up to you.

But that's not what is actually happening. UNC and UVa are serious SEC candidates.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Text me the name of your crack dealer.

My fraternity was founded at UVa. I love UVa. UVa is not a good fit for the SEC.
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I do think UVA will end up in the SEC.

I don't believe I've ever suggested "UVA to the SEC" is a "good fit" (or a bad fit).

It's just what I think will happen.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
If you choose to believe that the SEC is doing its business in the media with media leaks, and that the reports of UNC/UVA are merely "creating leverage" and "feeding considerable egos", that is up to you.

But that's not what is actually happening. UNC and UVa are serious SEC candidates.
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I've said — and written — for well over a year that both North Carolina and Virginia will end up in the SEC. That would, to my way of thinking, make them pretty serious candidates for the SEC.

(I also think it benefits Sankey to let both UNC and UVA know publicly how valuable they are to the SEC because both would also be high on any Big Ten expansion list. Gamesmanship of whatever we want to call it).

Again, for clarity's sake: I've said — and written — for well over a year that both North Carolina and Virginia will end up in the SEC. That would, to my way of thinking, make them pretty serious candidates for the SEC
 
TheOriginalCane said:
And this is why I have been pointing out that VaTech is, by far, the stronger candidate (at least compared to UVa). The MASSIVE game that VaTech played against Tennessee at Bristol Motor Speedway is a great example of what could happen if VaTech joined the SEC. And you could find just as many (if not marginally more) VaTech fans in the DC area as UVa.

Even though Blacksburg is a bit southwest of Charlottesville, those two towns are only 150 miles apart. Neither one is in the DC television market or the Norfolk/Virginia Beach television market.

There is POTENTIAL in the state of Virginia, but it is not nearly the same growth curve as you would see with adding UNC in North Carolina. And VaTech is the better choice over UVa, but VaTech doesn't even seem to be in the SEC Top 4 candidates.
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That game was strategically placed at BMS because it is literally halfway between both schools - a little closer to TN but still pretty central. TN dominates NETN and Vatech dominates SWVA. Geographically, VaTech would be a good fit with the SEC but as you mentioned, they’re not a big TV draw.
 
Hold My Beer said:
I've said — and written — for well over a year that both North Carolina and Virginia will end up in the SEC. That would, to my way of thinking, make them pretty serious candidates for the SEC.

(I also think it benefits Sankey to let both UNC and UVA know publicly how valuable they are to the SEC because both would also be high on any Big Ten expansion list. Gamesmanship of whatever we want to call it).

Again, for clarity's sake: I've said — and written — for well over a year that both North Carolina and Virginia will end up in the SEC. That would, to my way of thinking, make them pretty serious candidates for the SEC
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Again, Sankey is not saying anything "publicly". Other people have said that Sankey and that reporter are close, but Sankey has never given an interview or confirmed anything publicly. This isn't "gamesmanship" or anything else.

Second, I don't know if UNC and UVa will make it into the SEC. As I've said, F$U and Clemson are free of political entanglements and actually benefit from having legislatures that would pave the way for them to join the SEC. The political situations with UNC (definitely) and UVa (possibly) are more complicated.

It's one thing to "say nice things" about UNC. For two years, I have said that UNC is a top target for both the Big 10 and SEC. However, UVa is NOT a top target for the Big 10. So there's no reason for Sankey to blow UVa, either privately or in public.
 
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423Hurricane said:
That game was strategically placed at BMS because it is literally halfway between both schools - a little closer to TN but still pretty central. TN dominates NETN and Vatech dominates SWVA. Geographically, VaTech would be a good fit with the SEC but as you mentioned, they’re not a big TV draw.
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I know why it was put there. I used to work for an organization that has a couple of big events in Bristol every year, I know the area, I know the demographics. I'm just pointing out, that was a LOT of asses in seats.

The attendance would not have been as high if it had been UVa playing Tennessee. That's just reality.
 
Interesting comment by RegalNole ... the guy who started the Conference Realignment thread on Warchant two years ago ... "ACC pending new contract structure announcement that was agreed to in principal last week. The P2 and the networks have flexed again". This would tie in to Josh Pate's comments a few days ago that "he has had comments from attorneys that a reconfigured ACC is imminent, FSU and others are out".
 
Conference expansion is driven by TV networks who have the real data on what makes money and what doesn’t. There’s absolutely zero chance espn is letting the SEC make decisions on absolutely insane grounds like trying to recreate the confederacy.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I know why it was put there. I used to work for an organization that has a couple of big events in Bristol every year, I know the area, I know the demographics. I'm just pointing out, that was a LOT of asses in seats.

The attendance would not have been as high if it had been UVa playing Tennessee. That's just reality.
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I’ve lived 10 miles from the track for 25 years so I can speak to what its intent was. No doubt UVA wouldn’t have been near the draw VaTech was. They had talked about a game between TN and VT for years. The new GM was instrumental in making it happen.
 
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