Canes bs Tigers - ACC Championship - 2pm ESPNU/ACCN

I’ve always said the ACCT matters. There’s no telling what happens yesterday if the Duke game is a loss. I have a hard time believing that beating Duke got this team over the jump to beat Wake though. In reality it was getting Ligon back and Rosario being really good.

Again all of that stuff is great, I’m not arguing that it’s not. I’m saying it was a choice. And that choice is why Clemson scored 11 runs today and raised the trophy.
So you flip Chestnutt for Mr Reliable Gallo today? Again in a high leverage situation maybe it is Lecq instead of Torres, maybe. Lecq threw 20 on Thursday, 4 on Friday and 6 yesterday. Actually, Torres who has not been pitching well threw 31 pitches on Friday and 6 yesterday.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
And there's no point in hypothesizing if you can't understand that TORRES was not overused, and WALSH was not overused (and would have had no impact if Villegas catches the ball).

Sure, you're going to keep beating the Gallo/Walters drum. Though Gallo would have been out of the game in the 7th and Walters would not have even been in the game in the 7th.

Keep inventing false equivalencies and hypotheticals that have no meaning.

Torres ****ed up. Villegas ****ed up. Neither of those things have anything to do with pitching Gallo on Friday.

And stop insulting our intelligence with "warmups".

Rafe pitched 2/3 of an inning on Thursday, 1 and 1/3 on Friday, and 1/3 on Saturday.
Laquerica pitched 1 and 1/3 on Thursday, 1/3 on Friday, and 1/3 on Saturday.
I've already acknowledged that Walters pitched too long on Thursday, but he only went 1 inning on Friday and 1 inning on Saturday.

It is ridiculous for you to inflate their pitch counts AS IF THEY ARE STARTERS WHO GO 4 OR 5 INNINGS.

Rafe, Laquerica, and Walters only went longer than one inning ONCE EACH from Thursday to Saturday. Stop acting like they threw 30 or 40 extra warmup pitches because "ups and downs". Stop acting like a pitcher can only throw once a week, or two at most. Stop acting like there were no other options.
It’s not a false equivalency or hypothetical. Point is nobody should’ve pitched 4 days in a row, and your important arms shouldn’t have pitched friday. Idk how to be more clear than that.
 
I’ve always said the ACCT matters. There’s no telling what happens yesterday if the Duke game is a loss. I have a hard time believing that beating Duke got this team over the jump to beat Wake though. In reality it was getting Ligon back and Rosario being really good.

Again all of that stuff is great, I’m not arguing that it’s not. I’m saying it was a choice. And that choice is why Clemson scored 11 runs today and raised the trophy.


Nope. A dropped fly ball is why Clemson scored 4 of those11 runs today. And our starting pitcher is why Clemson scored 3 of those 11 runs today (and don't act like Gallo didn't give up 2 in 4 and 1/3 against a much lesser Duke team).

Torres is responsible (directly/indirectly) for 4 of those 11 runs.

Good lord, imagine someone arguing that Gallo would have somehow shut out WAKE and/or gone 7 innings against WAKE when he gave up 2 runs in 4 and 1/3 against DUKE.

That's about as insanely speculative as it gets. That Gallo would have played like Jesus Christ himself against Wake.

Hilarious.
 
Nope. A dropped fly ball is why Clemson scored 4 of those11 runs today. And our starting pitcher is why Clemson scored 3 of those 11 runs today (and don't act like Gallo didn't give up 2 in 4 and 1/3 against a much lesser Duke team).

Torres is responsible (directly/indirectly) for 4 of those 11 runs.

Good lord, imagine someone arguing that Gallo would have somehow shut out WAKE and/or gone 7 innings against WAKE when he gave up 2 runs in 4 and 1/3 against DUKE.

That's about as insanely speculative as it gets. That Gallo would have played like Jesus Christ himself against Wake.

Hilarious.
No one knows what would have happened. But ideally you have more arms available than fewer. When you have fewer, you tend to give up 11 runs to a top 8 national seed.
 
A dropped fly ball doesn’t result in any runs if there are no runners on base before or after the error. Maybe don’t throw BP to the other 12 guys in the inning.
 
Advertisement
So you flip Chestnutt for Mr Reliable Gallo today? Again in a high leverage situation maybe is Lecq instead of Torres, maybe.
I posted Tuesday night that I would’ve gone

Ziehl/whatever it takes to win Thursday

Chestnutt/whoever doesn’t pitch on weekends Friday

Ligon/Gallo/anything to win Saturday

Take your chances with Rosario for as long as possible in the ship

Obviously coaches went Ligon/Rosario yesterday, which was fine too and would’ve still left Gallo and more arms for today. And yes Leq would’ve been easier to go to if he wouldn’t have pitched 3 days in a row.
 
I posted Tuesday night that I would’ve gone

Ziehl/whatever it takes to win Thursday

Chestnutt/whoever doesn’t pitch on weekends Friday

Ligon/Gallo/anything to win Saturday

Take your chances with Rosario for as long as possible in the ship

Obviously coaches went Ligon/Rosario yesterday, which was fine too and would’ve still left Gallo and more arms for today. And yes Leq would’ve been easier to go to if he wouldn’t have pitched 3 days in a row.
****, throw Cyr and Levinson on Friday.
 
Nope. A dropped fly ball is why Clemson scored 4 of those11 runs today. And our starting pitcher is why Clemson scored 3 of those 11 runs today (and don't act like Gallo didn't give up 2 in 4 and 1/3 against a much lesser Duke team).

Torres is responsible (directly/indirectly) for 4 of those 11 runs.

Good lord, imagine someone arguing that Gallo would have somehow shut out WAKE and/or gone 7 innings against WAKE when he gave up 2 runs in 4 and 1/3 against DUKE.

That's about as insanely speculative as it gets. That Gallo would have played like Jesus Christ himself against Wake.

Hilarious.
Runners were on bc Rafe was tired and the first two of the inning got on.

Nobody said we win today if Gallo or Rosario starts. But having either of them and Walt for 40 pitches and Leq, would’ve given us a better shot today.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
I posted Tuesday night that I would’ve gone

Ziehl/whatever it takes to win Thursday

Chestnutt/whoever doesn’t pitch on weekends Friday

Ligon/Gallo/anything to win Saturday

Take your chances with Rosario for as long as possible in the ship

Obviously coaches went Ligon/Rosario yesterday, which was fine too and would’ve still left Gallo and more arms for today. And yes Leq would’ve been easier to go to if he wouldn’t have pitched 3 days in a row.
****, Lecq threw 30 pitches in 3 days. Torres who has been awful lately threw 31 on Friday and 6 on Saturday. What was really the difference with Gallo's plus 7 ERA as opposed to Chestnutt? We threw Scinta today and he has thrown little in conference lately and he was terrific. They were hoping to get a couple of outs out of Rafe in the 7th. Didn't happen. So the only real discussion is Torres vs Lecq in the high leverage situation today.
 
****, Lecq threw 30 pitches in 3 days. Torres who has been awful lately threw 31 on Friday and 6 on Saturday. What was really the difference with Gallo's plus 7 ERA as opposed to Chestnutt? We threw Scinta today and he has thrown little in conference lately and he was terrific. They were hoping to get a couple of outs out of Rafe in the 7th. Didn't happen. So the only real discussion is Torres vs Lecq in the high leverage situation today.
When I say Gallo vs Chestnutt I’m talking about before the game. Chestnutt and Scinta did the best they could and had us in it. I’m not complaining about their performance, I’m just saying we could’ve had better. Nobody with a straight face will say they’d prefer Chestnutt get the ball in a championship game if Gallo is the other choice. But it still comes back to usage. Bullpen after them was short handed.

30 pitches in 3 days is 60-80 as I pointed out earlier. If Leq and Walt don’t throw Friday and (Walt could’ve been left on the bench yesterday as well), we get them two for 9 outs and a 2 run lead. I’ll take that against anybody in the country. The kids would be carrying the trophy on the plane home right now.

Keep in mind my plan only matters if your only goal is to win the tournament. If it was just to improve seeding, then it’s a moot point.
 
When I say Gallo vs Chestnutt I’m talking about before the game. Chestnutt and Scinta did the best they could and had us in it. I’m not complaining about their performance, I’m just saying we could’ve had better. Nobody with a straight face will say they’d prefer Chestnutt get the ball in a championship game if Gallo is the other choice. But it still comes back to usage. Bullpen after them was short handed.

30 pitches in 3 days is 60-80 as I pointed out earlier. If Leq and Walt don’t throw Friday and (Walt could’ve been left on the bench yesterday as well), we get them two for 9 outs and a 2 run lead. I’ll take that against anybody in the country. The kids would be carrying the trophy on the plane home right now.
Only thing I will agree with you is Walters should not have pitched yesterday. Other than that I agree with how the staff handled it.
 
Only thing I will agree with you is Walters should not have pitched yesterday. Other than that I agree with how the staff handled it.
That’s a perfectly fair argument to make. My only thought was to win the whole thing. My plan was the only way to do it.
 
Advertisement
It’s not a false equivalency or hypothetical. Point is nobody should’ve pitched 4 days in a row, and your important arms shouldn’t have pitched friday. Idk how to be more clear than that.


Again, you refuse to acknowledge reality.

Your SAVIOR Gallo, who was going to be THE GUY to save us against Wake or Clemson, couldn't even get out of the 5th inning against DUKE. But we've got guys trying to tell us that he would have been SOOOOO much better than Chestnutt.

It's ridiculous.

You don't want to pitch the relievers as much? SCORE RUNS.

And the relievers who pitched every day...ARE NOT NAMED TORRES. Torres threw FOUR pitches to one batte the day before, let's not act like the poor guy was some overworked donkey. Oh, but "warmups". Oh, but "ups and downs".

Why can't you be honest? Just deal with these stats.

We scored 4 runs, 7 runs, 7 runs, and 5 runs. Never once did we hit the magic number of 8 runs (in which we have only lost one game, in extras).

Of these 23 runs:

1. We scored 7 runs on 6 HRs: FIVE one-run HRs, and ONE two-run HR. So only ONE of our six HRs came with a man on base.
2. We scored 4 runs on battery mistake: TWO wild pitches, ONE passed ball, and ONE bases-loaded walk.
3. Therefore, we only 12 runs in 4 games in normal "men on base" situations via hits (11 runs scored on hits, 1 run scored on a fielder's choice).

Now, one could say "hey, that sounds great, I'd gladly take 3 runs per game from hitting with men on bases. Really? Consider this.

1. NC State - we had men on bases in 8 out of the 9 innings when our final batter was up. There were FIFTEEN men on base when our final batter was up each inning (we won by 2).
2.. Duke - we had men on bases in all 8 innings when our final batter was up (we did not hit in the 9th). There were FOURTEEN men on base when our final batter was up each inning (we won by 1).
3. Wake - we had men on bases in 6 of 9 innings when our final batter was up. There were EIGHT men on base when our final batter was up each inning (and this was our largest margin of victory).
4. Clemson - we had men on bases in 7 of 9 innings when our final batter was up. There were TWELVE men on base when our final batter was up each inning.

Now, the absolute WORST you can do is to leave 27 men on bases in a 9 inning game. We left 15 base runners, 14 base runners, and 12 base runners in Games 1, 2, and 4.

If Miami had lost out in pitching duels, that would be one thing. But we CONSISTENTLY destroyed ourselves by NOT HITTING when we had men on bases. We had 49 base runners that we could have cashed in. But in reality, when hitting with men on bases (not counting HRs), we scored 1 run, 4 runs, 5 runs, and 2 runs in our four games.

Now, step back from the ledge, stop huffing the "but Gallo" myth, and look at HOW BADLY WE HIT with baserunners. It's beyond obvious what ACTUALLY happened.

Not to mention the Villegas error, which cost us 4 runs.

It's time to be honest. If we cash in EVEN 25% OF THOSE 49 BASE RUNNERS, it's an extra 12 runs. That would give us an extra margin of victory against NC State. That would get us to the magic 8 runs against Duke and Wake. And it would have beaten Clemson if not for the Villegas error.

Someone, go find @Canesfreak . Ask him for the texts that we've exchanged about our lack of situational hitting.

And then figure out that if we had 3 more runs against Clemson, and prevented them from scoring the 4 due to Villegas' error, what the outcome would have been.

Spoiler alert: IT'S NOT THE PITCHING, STUPID.
 
Last edited:
So I am “attacking” again.

Lots of projecting going on in your posts.


It's the opposite of "defending".

Earlier, a couple of people claimed you were "defending" the coaching staff, when you never did any such thing, you only went after one particular poster on a personal level, not a "coaching decision" level.

If you don't like the word "attacking", I'm fine to go with "criticizing". Because you absolutely ARE NOW CRITICIZING the coaching staff. Which would mean that you are not, in fact, defending the coaching staff.

This is just logical stuff. Nothing personal. You criticized a poster (and never defended the coaches), and now you are criticizing the coaches. Just acknowledge it.
 
Advertisement
It's the opposite of "defending".

Earlier, a couple of people claimed you were "defending" the coaching staff, when you never did any such thing, you only went after one particular poster on a personal level, not a "coaching decision" level.

If you don't like the word "attacking", I'm fine to go with "criticizing". Because you absolutely ARE NOW CRITICIZING the coaching staff. Which would mean that you are not, in fact, defending the coaching staff.

This is just logical stuff. Nothing personal. You criticized a poster (and never defended the coaches), and now you are criticizing the coaches. Just acknowledge it.
You know that both are possible, right? I think they’ve done a great job down the stretch while making a questionable decision with the pitching. Weird, I know.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top