After a quick study of AG's UVA playbook:

[FullyERicht]

Also, b/c we run a 3-4 zone base, we are forced to have our slower LBs cover more, b/c brining in a nickel, big nickel, or dime package is essentially telegraphing we are in M2M. When your LBs are Mike Barrow and Jesse Armstead, they can handle slot receivers in their zone, b/c they have closing speed. When its Shayon Green and Jimmy Gaines, you are ****ed.

The solution of course is to ZONE BLITZ all game, but deep zone blitz schemes take years to implement. We saw what Bill Young's looked like. And we saw it at Okie State too where they were abysmal. This **** requires too much complexity to work.

 

[LuCane]

Also, b/c we run a 3-4 zone base, we are forced to have our slower LBs cover more, b/c brining in a nickel, big nickel, or dime package is essentially telegraphing we are in M2M. When your LBs are Mike Barrow and Jesse Armstead, they can handle slot receivers in their zone, b/c they have closing speed. When its Shayon Green and Jimmy Gaines, you are ****ed.

The solution of course is to ZONE BLITZ all game, but deep zone blitz schemes take years to implement. We saw what Bill Young's looked like. And we saw it at Okie State too where they were abysmal. This **** requires too much complexity to work.

That's an interesting point. I'm not sure if it requires too much complexity or if it just requires a specific type of player/athlete. Diaz did really well with it at Miss St for that short time period and then did really well with it his first year at Texas. His concepts can be complex. The common denominator when he had success? Really instinctual LBs and Ends (specifically what Bill Young calls "Leo") who can deal with that kind of pressure. The moment they don't have those specific horses - regardless of their overall talent - things fall apart very quickly. The common denominator in these schemes when they fall apart? They can't adjust to a sound foundation. It's basically the invert of the teams that used to do well with the Tampa-2 and its variations.

 

[Andrew]

Al Groh has a losing record as a college head and was only a DC in the NFL for a few seasons.

 

[DeadPoets]

Al Groh has a losing record as a college head and was only a DC in the NFL for a few seasons.

The tree that Golden & D'Onofrio fall from is mediocre at best.

We're fvcked unless the BOT puts pressure on Golden. I've been told it is Golden's decision to make and no one elses.
Blake James, BOT, Shalala... none are having any say in the decision.

 

[DeadPoets]

Al Groh has a losing record as a college head and was only a DC in the NFL for a few seasons.

The tree that Golden & D'Onofrio fall from is mediocre at best.

We're fvcked unless the BOT puts pressure on Golden. I've been told it is Golden's decision to make and no one elses.
Blake James, BOT, Shalala... none are having any say in the decision.

What's his buyout if he keeps Dontknowfrio?

Twinkies & a new multi-color binder.

 

[MIA42178]

Al Groh has a losing record as a college head and was only a DC in the NFL for a few seasons.

The tree that Golden & D'Onofrio fall from is mediocre at best.

We're fvcked unless the BOT puts pressure on Golden. I've been told it is Golden's decision to make and no one elses.
Blake James, BOT, Shalala... none are having any say in the decision.

What's his buyout if he keeps Dontknowfrio?

Twinkies & a new multi-color binder.

In all honesty all I want is Jim Leavitt or Wannstedt as DC.
Otherwise, not too much to complain about
But this cluster fck defense is a massive complaint

 

[NVA CANE]

Al Groh has a losing record as a college head and was only a DC in the NFL for a few seasons.

The tree that Golden & D'Onofrio fall from is mediocre at best.

We're fvcked unless the BOT puts pressure on Golden. I've been told it is Golden's decision to make and no one elses.
Blake James, BOT, Shalala... none are having any say in the decision.

For the 2014 season they don't. But if we are inept next year or close to the incompetence we've seen this, I fully believe we will see Blake James stepping in. No way everyone is going to sit idle while we field another terrible defense. We may have to sit through one more year of this, but after the 2014 season, changes are gonna happen whether golden likes it or not.

 

[TheMatador]

Great post!

In JJ's defense, it was simple. Just attack!

JJ actually made the transition to the 4-3 during the Purdue game in 1984. He was so frustrated by the carryover 5-2 defense that Bill Trout (a Schnellenberger guy) was running, he took one of the LBs--I can't remember now, which one), told him to put his hand on the ground, and told him, "just rush the passer." Simple. This was a halftime adjustment. I think we were having trouble with Jim Everett, and JJ wanted more pass rush.

JJ continued to stick with the base 5-2 through the end of the season, and actually made the total transition in spring practice of 1985. We played UCLA in the Fiesta Bowl at the end of the '84 season, and the UCLA coaches were dumbfounded when UM didn't show a typical Johnson "blitzkrieg." The UCLA coaches were so surprised that the Miami guys just stayed in their positions along he line. They had prepared for UM by looking at JJ's old teams at Oklahoma State.

Unfortunately, I don't think Golden and D'Onofrio will budge off of what they know. I guess using this Groh defense worked OK with Temple guys, who were probably not geniuses, but it still worked because it was the MAC. I think they are going to continue to have problems with the scheme and matching it to the personnel.

They'd be much better off putting the fastest guys they have up front and attacking. Make it simple.

Golden speaks of getting more team speed on defense by playing a 3-4, but he's overlooking the fact that JJ's defense was actually a five LB defense, and that's JJ's description himself. The two DE's with their hands on the grounds are especially bigger LBs. I think the attacking, pressure 4-3 is better for Miami-type kids. It's easier to run, and takes advantage of speed and the mentality of south Florida kids.

 

[TheSwagger1]

Against trips, we'll blitz our weak-side OLB but don't replace his vacant zone with any defenders. The offense simply runs a drag route from the trips side and once he clears Perryman's face, who passes him off to nobody, the QB throws the ball to him. He catches the drag and there's nobody near him for 15 yards. There's liteally nobody to the right of Perryman to pick up that drag.

I would normally call this a "coverage bust" and blame it on a player but this has happened wayyyy too many times.

Is D'Onofrio counting on the blitz to get there before the WR from the trips side can pass Perryman on the drag? *shrugs*

This makes me want to kill someone when it happens. My knowledge is nowhere near the depth of your's and I've been trying to figure out if we were willingly unsound (which is like the ultimate sin to every coach I've ever been around) or if Perryman was just repeatedly ******* up or what.

 

[LuCane]

Great post!

In JJ's defense, it was simple. Just attack!

JJ actually made the transition to the 4-3 during the Purdue game in 1984. He was so frustrated by the carryover 5-2 defense that Bill Trout (a Schnellenberger guy) was running, he took one of the LBs--I can't remember now, which one), told him to put his hand on the ground, and told him, "just rush the passer." Simple. This was a halftime adjustment. I think we were having trouble with Jim Everett, and JJ wanted more pass rush.

JJ continued to stick with the base 5-2 through the end of the season, and actually made the total transition in spring practice of 1985. We played UCLA in the Fiesta Bowl at the end of the '84 season, and the UCLA coaches were dumbfounded when UM didn't show a typical Johnson "blitzkrieg." The UCLA coaches were so surprised that the Miami guys just stayed in their positions along he line. They had prepared for UM by looking at JJ's old teams at Oklahoma State.

Unfortunately, I don't think Golden and D'Onofrio will budge off of what they know. I guess using this Groh defense worked OK with Temple guys, who were probably not geniuses, but it still worked because it was the MAC. I think they are going to continue to have problems with the scheme and matching it to the personnel.

They'd be much better off putting the fastest guys they have up front and attacking. Make it simple.

Golden speaks of getting more team speed on defense by playing a 3-4, but he's overlooking the fact that JJ's defense was actually a five LB defense, and that's JJ's description himself. The two DE's with their hands on the grounds are especially bigger LBs. I think the attacking, pressure 4-3 is better for Miami-type kids. It's easier to run, and takes advantage of speed and the mentality of south Florida kids.

Almost everything I've harped on revolves around this core problem/issue. The very best guys we have consistent access to are the guys who openly say they "want to put on for their city." It's a mentality. Not to be confused with the fake Swag stuff. Think Stacy Coley. He's one current player I can think of with that type of attitude.

Maybe it's more hype and nonsense than substance, but it actually affects their actions. When I've listened to some of our current players in an informal environment, they kind of grin when asked about the pillars, assignment football and "doing your job." Of course, in formal settings, guys are going to say "the right thing." Some of their futures depend on it. In reality, I've compared the situation to asking Brazilian Soccer players to play in a very structured system. Would they still be good and flash talent? Probably. Will they be maximized the way they are in their "Joga Bonita" style? Probably not.

Now, there's an interesting angle there in that some people claim "Joga Bonita" style doesn't win championships (consistently enough). So, the challenge for the coaches is to get players feeling free and loose and balance that with some structure. I think it's a really cool opportunity for coaches. It's a challenging problem that lends itself to a creative solution. Talent issues or not, we ain't there yet from this angle either, I think.

 

[razrcane]

Keep in mind that AL Groh was run out of Georgia Tech because the defense was too complex

Truth...here's text from the AJC article announcing his firing....somethings might sound familiar....

"In coach Paul Johnson’s analysis, Groh did not fall short in his effort or smarts.

“What’s inside his head, he’s very knowledgeable,” Johnson said. “There’s no questioning that. The problem was becoming, what’s in there, we weren’t seeing on the field.”

Groh’s tenure concluded in a blizzard of points, yards and missed tackles. In Tech’s past three games, losses to Miami, Middle Tennessee State and Clemson, the Yellow Jackets gave up an average of 46 points and 573.3 yards. Opponents converted 31 of 46 third downs into first downs. Improbably, Tech fared slightly worse when opponents faced 3rd-and-7 or longer than 3rd-and-6 or less.

Tech gave up more than 40 points in the three consecutive games, the first time that has happened in school history."
http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-tech-sports/2012/10/08/al-groh-fired-at-tech/

Jesus. Replace Johnson with Golden and Groh with D'ohnofrio and that's Miami. **** me.

yep unless we have a change in philosophy we are pretty much screwed

 

[CanesAreAble]

Al Groh has a losing record as a college head and was only a DC in the NFL for a few seasons.

He was head coach of the Jets, too.

 

[Gamineal]

yea the brain surgeons we had in the 80s and 90s who held tough teams top 10 guys under 200 yards and less than 16 points were just smarter.....way to give the inner city kids credit

 

[GoldenShowertheGators]

Great breakdown in the OP. I can't get over the failure to adapt it to what there is on the roster. Seems like it worked out well for ol Saban.

My question is though, they did run this same crappy scheme at UVA against these same ACC teams and were a statistically good enough D by their third year right? So what the junk, their players could pick it up and ours can't?

 

[NVA CANE]

IMO, Golden is running a convoluted program especially on the defensive side of the ball. Golden's 8 Pillars, his binder, his sayings, etc. kids will only respond to that for a bit until they tune you out. Add on top of that a defensive scheme/philosophy that doesn't put them in a position to win and you get the cluster **** we are stuck with.

Golden needs to realize he is no longer in the Northeast. Different areas of the country have different football cultures. He needs to embrace the South Florida culture and stop forcing his philosophies, idioms and sayings on these kids. Let them play football.

Golden is essentially squeezing the life out of the kids and program by implementing his stuffy uptight Northeast style. Unfortunately by the time he realizes it, it will be too late for him.

 

[Gatorhater]

Great post. UVA is an excellent school. Maybe its players, especially in the 70"s were smart enough to use the complex stuff. Sounds like a good defense for smarter less talented team to use against offenses they can't defend any other way. Seems like it is designed to frustrate talent into mistakes. Our problem might be we are using against smart offenses with marginal talent that are happy as crap to take 3 to 8 yards a crack and never bit at the big play.

 

[NVA CANE]

Great breakdown in the OP. I can't get over the failure to adapt it to what there is on the roster. Seems like it worked out well for ol Saban.

My question is though, they did run this same crappy scheme at UVA against these same ACC teams and were a statistically good enough D by their third year right? So what the junk, their players could pick it up and ours can't?

Because he was dealing with Junior and Senior laden teams. Go look at his defense in his second to last year. It was ranked 18th in scoring defense. In Golden's last year, he had kids graduating and his defense dropped to 44th scoring defense in the country. At UVA and Temple players weren't going anywhere, so he had time to implement his defense. If Howard, Bush and a few of the other players leave after next season, then with this scheme and defensive philosophy, we would be waiting for the 2014 freshmen to pick up the scheme again which would take until 2016.

 

[DeadPoets]

Great breakdown in the OP. I can't get over the failure to adapt it to what there is on the roster. Seems like it worked out well for ol Saban.

My question is though, they did run this same crappy scheme at UVA against these same ACC teams and were a statistically good enough D by their third year right? So what the junk, their players could pick it up and ours can't?

Because he was dealing with Junior and Senior laden teams. Go look at his defense in his second to last year. It was ranked 18th in scoring defense. In Golden's last year, he had kids graduating and his defense dropped to 44th scoring defense in the country. At UVA and Temple players weren't going anywhere, so he had time to implement his defense. If Howard, Bush and a few of the other players leave after next season, then with this scheme and defensive philosophy, we would be waiting for the 2014 freshmen to pick up the scheme again which would take until 2016.

Yup. Just an all around terrible fvckin defense. From day fvckin 1

 

[AlexCane]

Interesting read.

It doesn't matter how smart our coaches are or how sophisticated their schemes are. If it can't be conveyed to players such that it can be consistently executed, then it's a failure.

 

[FreePawn]

Man, that was a good post to read.

It gets a bit tiring reading about how our coach and DC are "idiots" when it's pretty clear they are far from it. There's certainly a **** of a lot more to the disconnect than "our coaches are dumb"

Reading Killa's post, When you tell me a line with Floyd and Easley werent able to do something we are asking our guys to do and we have been trying for multiple years to do, and we still havent adjusted and from the sounds of Golden will stick to and still try, I dont know man. Thats kinda scary.

Maybe not dumb but just stubborn maybe? I have seen that posted on here, then it just boils over when freaking Duke blocks us into the goal post for 350 on ground for 50 points! Dude that is frustrating and no amount of talent talk will make us feel that Duke can trample us like a jv high school team

"Just" stubborn is a misnomer. If you´re stubborn to the point of failing your goals, it´s safe to say a very noticable element of "dumb" has crept into your stubbornness.