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2008 class vs 2023 class

Canesfan_134 said:
Now I will say this if it had been a different coach instead of Shannon that group could’ve been special. Our staff in that time frame was literally awful at developing talent.
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I remember watching Brooker T vs Summerville and thinking we got a future first round pick with B. Harris. That group had talent but development really hurt that class and it was oddly built. @SWFLHurricane is correct.. we had 5 LB, 7 WR and 3 QB’s while only have 2 OL in that class.
 
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ChoadCane said:
I don't remember him being that good either. I know he was decent for Pittsburgh but nothing special. Maybe I'm misremembering
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Yes you are not remembering correctly. The class underachieved but some of the players did live up to their billing over achieved and Spence was one. He had a 100+ tackles and over 14 tfls his last 2 years. He was beyond good. He was actually great here. But during both years we went 7-6.
 
Dwinstitles said:
Super overrated. This class is already better than the 08 class. The evals at that time were awful
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Evaluations wasn’t the issue with that class. It was development. Most of the guys were productive but didn’t take the next step to have us compete for a national championship. We won 9 games in 09 because of that class. Then won 7 games the following 2 years. I believe if most of those guys went to a veteran staff they would have lived up to their billing. If rumors were true and we were able to get Kevin Sumlin as the OC then what would have happened? Development was an issue.
 
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Lazarre said:
I remember watching Brooker T vs Summerville and thinking we got a future first round pick with B. Harris. That group had talent but development really hurt that class and it was oddly built. @SWFLHurricane is correct.. we had 5 LB, 7 WR and 3 QB’s while only have 2 OL in that class.
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Talk about having balanced recruiting classes.
 
Lazarre said:
I remember watching Brooker T vs Summerville and thinking we got a future first round pick with B. Harris. That group had talent but development really hurt that class and it was oddly built. @SWFLHurricane is correct.. we had 5 LB, 7 WR and 3 QB’s while only have 2 OL in that class.
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Harris was lockdown on AJ Green in that game!! Harris was still a 2nd round pick and a good player for us. Under a better staff here could’ve been a high 1st round pick.

The dream scenario back in 08 was that we was bringing in both Harris and Patrick Peterson as the two best 5* CBs in the nation. Then L$U f***** that up. We also got a surprise commitment from Vaughn Telemaque at S he was a stud at Long Beach poly then came here to amount to nothing.
 
lauderdaleballer said:
Evaluations wasn’t the issue with that class. It was development. Most of the guys were productive but didn’t take the next step to have us compete for a national championship. We won 9 games in 09 because of that class. Then won 7 games the following 2 years. I believe if most of those guys went to a veteran staff they would have lived up to their billing. If rumors were true and we were able to get Kevin Sumlin as the OC then what would have happened? Development was an issue.
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Gotta disagree with that fair enough. Spence would be the only take for me and David was the huge miss. He was the best out that MNW crew the NFL proved that. That's the ultimate proving ground for me. What the NFL says. The NFL shows the Tebows vs the Andrew Lucks. What they do in college yea it means alot but that doesn't mean everything. Could they have been better? Possibly but they were who they were. Who's to even say Mario would recruit those kids with the way he evaluates? He just let Jalen Brown walk who's straight line speed and people lost it but I'm good with it. I don't think Mario would even go after that class.

And let's say (which is probably true) Saban is the best eval guy now. Does he even recruit those same kids? I find it hard to believe he does.
 
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lauderdaleballer said:
Yes you are not remembering correctly. The class underachieved but some of the players did live up to their billing over achieved and Spence was one. He had a 100+ tackles and over 14 tfls his last 2 years. He was beyond good. He was actually great here. But during both years we went 7-6.
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I was referring to the NFL. I remember him being outstanding at Miami, particularly his final season
 
Lazarre said:
I remember watching Brooker T vs Summerville and thinking we got a future first round pick with B. Harris. That group had talent but development really hurt that class and it was oddly built. @SWFLHurricane is correct.. we had 5 LB, 7 WR and 3 QB’s while only have 2 OL in that class.
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The class was extremely imbalanced. However, we had 2 qbs the prior years and a kicker practicing at WR with Richard Gordon returning kick offs. We could have recruited 1 less QB, along with 3 less WR, and 2 less LB. We needed more linemen on offense and more DBs. Players like Wylie, the db that hijacked the helicopter, Zach Kane, Antonio Harper and CJ Odom were 3 stars that never made it over did very little. Then you have the 4 stars like Futch, CJ Holton, Davon Johnson, Jeremy Lewis and Kendall Thompson who 4 star HS success never translated to college. We ran a pro style too. Why recruit all those WR when we running 2 on the field the majority of the time? We were still using a full back too, although I liked Pat Hill.
 
Dwinstitles said:
Gotta disagree with that fair enough. Spence would be the only take for me and David was the huge miss. He was the best out that MNW crew the NFL proved that. That's the ultimate proving ground for me. What the NFL says. The NFL shows the Tebows vs the Andrew Lucks. What they do in college yea it means alot but that doesn't mean everything. Could they have been better? Possibly but they were who they were. Who's to even say Mario would recruit those kids with the way he evaluates? He just let Jalen Brown walk who's straight line speed and people lost it but I'm good with it. I don't think Mario would even go after that class.

And let's say (which is probably true) Saban is the best eval guy now. Does he even recruit those same kids? I find it hard to believe he does.
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Man what are you talking about? Revisionist history at its finest. You probably would only take Spence but college coaches would have recruited more of those guys. As for David, I guarantee you knew nothing about David in 08. Like you really had to follow MNW close and from that 07 & 08 class very few if any mentioned David as a player we should take. Recruiting in 08 is a lot different than 2022. David also developed physically in juco and was a stud at Nebraska. David wasn’t even the 2nd highest rated LB on that MNW team. They had a LB ranked higher that signed with USF.

It’s irrelevant to point out how someone recruits in 2022 compared to 08. Trends and tendencies change. So referencing a recruit this cycle is pointless. That being said, the majority of recruits during that 08 class was major contributors to us winning 9 games in year 2. They were projected to win 10+ games in 2010. If the evaluations were awful then they wouldn’t have had high expectations. They just didn’t develop. Most of all those guys would have been national recruits today if they were class of 2023 as well. I mean even Arthur Brown became an All American at KSU.
 
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lauderdaleballer said:
Man what are you talking about? Revisionist history at its finest. You probably would only take Spence but college coaches would have recruited more of those guys. As for David, I guarantee you knew nothing about David in 08. Like you really had to follow MNW close and from that 07 & 08 class very few if any mentioned David as a player we should take. Recruiting in 08 is a lot different than 2022. David also developed physically in juco and was a stud at Nebraska. David wasn’t even the 2nd highest rated LB on that MNW team. They had a LB ranked higher that signed with USF.

It’s irrelevant to point out how someone recruits in 2022 compared to 08. Trends and tendencies change. So referencing a recruit this cycle is pointless. That being said, the majority of recruits during that 08 class was major contributors to us winning 9 games in year 2. They were projected to win 10+ games in 2010. If the evaluations were awful then they wouldn’t have had high expectations. They just didn’t develop. Most of all those guys would have been national recruits today if they were class of 2023 as well. I mean even Arthur Brown became an All American at KSU.
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I just got a different view. I'm a believer in the future will always tell u the truth. U can't hide talent. If our guys were going to the league and doing the old Miami way I would agree with u 100%. I just have my own view of that won't change. The future will give u the truth. Those guys most of them were over rated and the future told me that. U ask me then I was geeked at the class but I'm not a pro evaluator I don't get paid the millions of bucks for that. Arthur was the most talented LB an OOS kid u saw it on film. Randy just didn't like him or some **** but everyone knew he was a missile we saw it on special teams.

Evals also from elite eval guys they check frame or what they going to be how they are going to grow (pause) if they will keep their explosiveness with weight gain. There is alot that goes into it. I can only speak on what happened and the NFL proof of it that's it. That's all I have so I disagree and there is nothing wrong with me disagreeing. If u think the way u do that's fine I'm just putting my view out there.

Edit: for example Marcus Forston got coached by Bill Belichek and he can coach and he still didn't cut it. He was over hyped that's it the scouts got it wrong. That's why u see guys jump and drop in the combine it's about potential. The same **** Doritos was screaming in the recruiting room and Hurley dogged him cause Hurlie was right. Who cares what u did in HS how do u project in the ACC when the speed and strength is increased. The kid was probably great in HS had all the stats but something hindered him and it was speed. That's why that staff got cooked and was shown the door. Sam Shields had speed and not for a straight line wr but to play DB and he did well in the league. Simple.
 
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ChoadCane said:
I was referring to the NFL. I remember him being outstanding at Miami, particularly his final season
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Oh my bad man. Yea you’re right. After he suffered that gruesome injury it took him a while to get back. He was a solid rotation guy but he didn’t do much in the league. It was just good to see him play again. I believe he split his kneecap along with tearing his acl and pcl.
 
Lazarre said:
I remember watching Brooker T vs Summerville and thinking we got a future first round pick with B. Harris. That group had talent but development really hurt that class and it was oddly built. @SWFLHurricane is correct.. we had 5 LB, 7 WR and 3 QB’s while only have 2 OL in that class.
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He went 2nd round so you werent far off.lol

It was #1 class based on numbers...class was horribly built
 
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Dwinstitles said:
I just got a different view. I'm a believer in the future will always tell u the truth. U can't hide talent. If our guys were going to the league and doing the old Miami way I would agree with u 100%. I just have my own view of that won't change. The future will give u the truth. Those guys most of them were over rated and the future told me that. U ask me then I was geeked at the class but I'm not a pro evaluator I don't get paid the millions of bucks for that. Arthur was the most talented LB an OOS kid u saw it on film. Randy just didn't like him or some **** but everyone knew he was a missile we saw it on special teams.
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You’re still not making sense. So “the future” tells you if they are talented and you often reference what they do in the league but then you mentioned A. Brown who didn’t do anything in the league. Anyway, A. Brown is an example of a development issue. For here he struggled with the plays, but KSU found a way to get him to become an AA. I mean players like Benjamin, B. Harris, B. Washington, and Streeter (late development) were productive here but for a majority of our guys they never developed for some reason. They were hyped up in 2010 for a reason.
 
lauderdaleballer said:
You’re still not making sense. So “the future” tells you if they are talented and you often reference what they do in the league but then you mentioned A. Brown who didn’t do anything in the league. Anyway, A. Brown is an example of a development issue. For here he struggled with the plays, but KSU found a way to get him to become an AA. I mean players like Benjamin, B. Harris, B. Washington, and Streeter (late development) were productive here but for a majority of our guys they never developed for some reason. They were hyped up in 2010 for a reason.
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Benjamin doing fine he's had a good NFL career. Development I agree was an issue at times but evals were the bigger problem imo. Look at who we are targeting now.....we are going after a different breed of player. If AG Randy MR Manny Golden were HC 90% of these guys wouldn't be targeted I'm 10000000% sure of it. Do guys develop? Yea they do and Randy wasn't good with Brown he left and developed to his ranking. But the majority of recruiting is evals then closing. Those two are the most important thing to building a monster squad. To me that outweighs anything.

Development now will come cause we got coaches that make u work (and yea that's also a change from past staff's) but we bringing in a different type of animal. Same thing Rolle said when Butch got hired....I won't quote it but he said sheesh we bringing in these types of monsters? Evals and closing. I'm not sitting here saying development isn't anything. I'm saying down the road u usually can see if it's a development issue. If a guy who no one knew doesn't do anything in college then beasts in the NFL then yea u can say that.
 
Canesfan_134 said:
Seen a Twitter thread and this got me thinking. Can the 2023 class be better than the 2008 class on paper? I know the 2008 class flopped once they arrived here… Obviously the 2023 class is gonna have a better staff to develop around once they get here. But I’m asking this merely from a perspective of recruiting and not knowing what was gonna happen after they arrived at UM.
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I recall us having too many LBs that year.
This class feels more balanced.

As has been already noted, 2008 had a ton of 3 stars. Not that we dont have 3 stars now, but there was a high quantity in 2008.

Maybe Jalen Brown turns out to be the next Aldarius Johnson?
 
Dwinstitles said:
Benjamin doing fine he's had a good NFL career. Development I agree was an issue at times but evals were the bigger problem imo. Look at who we are targeting now.....we are going after a different breed of player. If AG Randy MR Manny Golden were HC 90% of these guys wouldn't be targeted I'm 10000000% sure of it. Do guys develop? Yea they do and Randy wasn't good with Brown he left and developed to his ranking. But the majority of recruiting is evals then closing. Those two are the most important thing to building a monster squad. To me that outweighs anything.

Development now will come cause we got coaches that make u work (and yea that's also a change from past staff's) but we bringing in a different type of animal. Same thing Rolle said when Butch got hired....I won't quote it but he said sheesh we bringing in these types of monsters? Evals and closing. I'm not sitting here saying development isn't anything. I'm saying down the road u usually can see if it's a development issue. If a guy who no one knew doesn't do anything in college then beasts in the NFL then yea u can say that.
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I get what you are saying but remember recruiting now is different from back then. At one time unless you were a stud you redshirted. Now you can redshirt but play 4 games. Kids weren’t hitting the weights like they do now. Athletes are more advanced from a physical stand point now and with the transfer portal, kids are coming in more physically ready than they did in 08. These kids are coming in physically ready to compete now. Benjamin weighed 140. He was a baller but in 2022 he wouldn’t have came in at 140 if he wanted a p5 offer.

That’s why I said, it’s irrelevant to compare what a staff is doing now to what a staff did back. You are right regarding the athletes we are bringing now but that doesn’t mean the evals in 08 were awful though. It was a different landscape for college football.
 
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