1/24 UL @ 8:00 PM (ESPN2)

I strongly disagree with everything you said above. You may be the only one that supports Newton and the above given his actual tenure.

1. Newton has been an atrocious defender his whole career. Find someone who thinks he isn't a defensive liability. Then find someone that thinks Lykes is inferior to him at D. Newton has such a low basketball IQ, especially on D, and that foul on McMahon is further proof as such. I guess the double team wasn't enough, Newton needed to foul him too.

2. You failed to mention that Newton is incredibly selfish and had some awful offensive possessions when it mattered. He shot 2-10 for the game and this included going 0-2 from FG and 2-4 from the FTL in OT. I don't see how Lykes does worse during that time.

3. As for that Snider stuff, he had 5 of his 6 FGs in the second half. Who do you think was guarding him getting all that burn? Also, 6 for 15 isn't impressive. He normally shoots 43% and he shot 40% and it was a road game. Snider also scored 18 total points, 5 more than average.

Lykes has done well defensively when he is in there, however [MENTION=18929]miamidan20[/MENTION] is right about last night. Louisville was going right at Lykes inside and they got a clean look every time. I'll add that while I think Newton isn't a good 1v1 defender he certainly has more experience as a team defender, less likely to make a mistake IMO.

Even if you think that Newton played better D than Newton, which I disagree with, the other stuff still stood out. When it mattered most he couldn’t hit a layup, went 2-4 from FTL and played selfish with the ball.

I'm with Consigliere on this one. I'm glad we won and all, but Coach L's decision to keep Newton in during the last couple of minutes of regulation had me extremely concerned. Two missed layups and two turnovers in 90 seconds is not how you want to close out the game. Plus, I thought we needed Lykes to provide a spark, especially during the first couple of minutes of OT, when we were standing around and taking jump shots (and missing them).

First off, my post was a comment on Lykes only as to his defensive issues early in this game and the reason that he only played about 5 second half minutes. I love Lykes, this is not a Jaquan/Lykes debate in general. They played together a lot in the game actually (which I really liked, particularly with the way Brown was struggling). But we beat a very good team that we were losing to for most of the game in part because of the decisions that Coach L made re: Newton and Lykes (the other major parts being Lonnie and team rebounding - of which 6’2 Newton had 7 by the way). Did you guys even read coach L’s post-game quotes? “Then Jaquan Newton just took over the game with his defensive effort and he sent a message to everybody on the team: you’ve got to pick it up and play a lot harder”. I’m sorry if I’m the “only one” in here that supports Newton. I’m hoping that some of you will come along with me (and Coach L) as the season goes on.


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I'm certainly with you (and Coach L). I also really want the best for Newton, and am not as down on him as others are. If we want to achieve all that we hoped for at the beginning of the season, we need Newton and Brown to be major contributors. For most of the game, I thought Newton played well. Up until the last 90 seconds in regulation, Newton was 2-6 from the floor, but 6-6 from the line, and with 0 turnovers. So, on his 9 "possessions" (6 FG attempts and 3 trips to the line), he had 10 points. That's a great number against a solid Louisville defense that clogs the lane and takes away Newton's primary skill.

Where I thought Newton should be removed was in OT. Consider his stat line starting with the last 90 seconds of regulation:

0-4 FG
2-4 FT
1 turnover
1 steal
4 rebounds (which were big, especially on Brown's second missed FT)
2 fouls (with one horrific foul on McMahon's 3-point attempt in OT)

He made some important plays in OT to be sure, especially the rebounds and the steal, but he also made some bad decisions. If he had played even an average last 90 seconds of regulation, I would have fully supported Coach L's decision to keep Newton in the game in OT. But he seemed to slip into the reckless version of Newton that we have seen too often this year. Hopefully, he can learn to work with the team, and not try to be the entire team, which he seems to do at times. We need his skill set, especially against a team like FSU.
 
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Great win, but I still hate the FT shooting.

We're in a great position.

Actually, we made 71% (22-31) of our FTs, L'ville only made 64%. More accurately, I think we all hated the FT shooting in crunch time. Especially those two bricks by BB.

That's what I meant. I felt like that kept them in it still...in any case, I'm happy we got a W. Always a tough team, regardless of whatever circumstances they have going on around them.
 
Agree to disagree. Offense looks good to me. We're 2-12. If we were 4-12 it'd be tied.

You're right, going 4-12 means we're moving the ball around enough.

Lol and you're right. Shooting 2-12 is all about lack of ball movement. Nothing else.

I never said it was. You brought up that point.

My point was we're shooting effing terrible. Offense looks fine to me.

I'm sorry, but if the offense looks fine to you then you have absolutely no idea what you are watching.
 
My point was we're shooting effing terrible. Offense looks fine to me.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but if the offense looks fine to you then you have absolutely no idea what you are watching.[/QUOTE]

In general the offense has been a struggle this season. The offense looked fine to me against Louisville. We missed open 3s and open layups. But we constantly attacked the basket hence us taking 21 free throws in regulation. (We took 10 against NC state and 12 against Duke)

Brown, Newton and Amp shot 5-27. That tells me the shots were there we just didn’t make them. The offense execution was fine. We just missed shots.

So sorry. I do know what I am watching. Maybe you should learn basketball offenses can run like a well oiled machine, but if you miss your shots you still don’t score many points.
 
My point was we're shooting effing terrible. Offense looks fine to me.

I'm sorry, but if the offense looks fine to you then you have absolutely no idea what you are watching.[/QUOTE]

In general the offense has been a struggle this season. The offense looked fine to me against Louisville. We missed open 3s and open layups. But we constantly attacked the basket hence us taking 21 free throws in regulation. (We took 10 against NC state and 12 against Duke)

Brown, Newton and Amp shot 5-27. That tells me the shots were there we just didn’t make them. The offense execution was fine. We just missed shots.

So sorry. I do know what I am watching. Maybe you should learn basketball offenses can run like a well oiled machine, but if you miss your shots you still don’t score many points.[/QUOTE]

I'm fully aware that offenses can run like a well oiled machine but if you miss shots you don't score. I get that we don't have the best shooters. But it's the kind of shots we are taking. I don't judge a good shot on if it goes in or not. I judge it before. Louisville played zone. We struggle against zone because we don't have much shooting but the bigger issue is not making the defense move. We pass the ball up top a few times at the zone defense just sits there because they aren't concerned. If we moved the ball around effectively it would make the defense move and then we can attack those holes. That leads to open shots and easier lay ups. Instead, we either drive 1 on 3 and that means we are taking tough contested lay ups or we are taking a forced outside shot with someone in our face. Go watch the game again and this will be obvious to you. If we move the ball well and get the extra pass in and we miss an open 3 or easy lay ups I'm fine with that. That's not what happened last night and we've had this issue against zone all year. No matter what we aren't going to shoot great but I promise you our shooting percentage goes up when we move the ball better. Just look at the assist to turnover ratio and then our shooting percentage for each game.
 
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My point was we're shooting effing terrible. Offense looks fine to me.

I'm sorry, but if the offense looks fine to you then you have absolutely no idea what you are watching.

In general the offense has been a struggle this season. The offense looked fine to me against Louisville. We missed open 3s and open layups. But we constantly attacked the basket hence us taking 21 free throws in regulation. (We took 10 against NC state and 12 against Duke)

Brown, Newton and Amp shot 5-27. That tells me the shots were there we just didn’t make them. The offense execution was fine. We just missed shots.

So sorry. I do know what I am watching. Maybe you should learn basketball offenses can run like a well oiled machine, but if you miss your shots you still don’t score many points.[/QUOTE]

I'm fully aware that offenses can run like a well oiled machine but if you miss shots you don't score. I get that we don't have the best shooters. But it's the kind of shots we are taking. I don't judge a good shot on if it goes in or not. I judge it before. Louisville played zone. We struggle against zone because we don't have much shooting but the bigger issue is not making the defense move. We pass the ball up top a few times at the zone defense just sits there because they aren't concerned. If we moved the ball around effectively it would make the defense move and then we can attack those holes. That leads to open shots and easier lay ups. Instead, we either drive 1 on 3 and that means we are taking tough contested lay ups or we are taking a forced outside shot with someone in our face. Go watch the game again and this will be obvious to you. If we move the ball well and get the extra pass in and we miss an open 3 or easy lay ups I'm fine with that. That's not what happened last night and we've had this issue against zone all year. No matter what we aren't going to shoot great but I promise you our shooting percentage goes up when we move the ball better. Just look at the assist to turnover ratio and then our shooting percentage for each game.[/QUOTE]

"I don't judge a good shot if it goes in or not"

"Just look at the assist to turnover ratio and then our shooting percentage for each game"

Uhhh, sounds like you do judge an offense by whether it goes in or not.

Look, I agree with you offense has been crap all season. Against Louisville, it was not. It was fine. It was anything spectacular, but with our athletes and defense it was just what we will need the rest of the year to win games in the ACC.
 
My point is there is correlation when it comes to sharing the ball and shooting percentage. The reason is because when you move the ball you get better looks. Our offense wasn't fine. We didn't move the ball effectively and kept taking awful shots. We can get away with this at home but we won't get away with this on the road or in tourney play. Because we aren't a good shooting team it's even more imperative we share the ball better to get better looks. We will continue to have bad shooting nights against the zone if we don't move the ball better.
 
My point is there is correlation when it comes to sharing the ball and shooting percentage. The reason is because when you move the ball you get better looks. Our offense wasn't fine. We didn't move the ball effectively and kept taking awful shots. We can get away with this at home but we won't get away with this on the road or in tourney play. Because we aren't a good shooting team it's even more imperative we share the ball better to get better looks. We will continue to have bad shooting nights against the zone if we don't move the ball better.

13 assists on 24 made field goals Wednesday. That's not awesome, but it is fine. Louisville by comparison had 8 assists on 27 made field goals. It's 54% and we average 48%.

My point remains and you're not really doing a good job changing my mind. Offense was just fine on Wednesday. We missed shots. Make those shots and we put up 80. It was also the best we've played against a zone all season.
 
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I can't change your mind if you don't understand basketball. We consistently miss shots against a zone because we don't move the ball and it leads to bad shots. You have good shooting nights and bad shooting nights but the majority of the time we shoot bad against a zone and it's because we don't move the ball well. We have no hope if we don't start moving the ball better.
 
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I can't change your mind if you don't understand basketball. We consistently miss shots against a zone because we don't move the ball and it leads to bad shots. You have good shooting nights and bad shooting nights but the majority of the time we shoot bad against a zone and it's because we don't move the ball well. We have no hope if we don't start moving the ball better.

You know what man, I just went and rewatched the game to see if I was wrong.

I wasn't.

We missed 33 shots in regulation, shooting 22-55. I counted 14 misses that were either open threes or layups that should be made/were open.

There were also two possessions where a missed shot was forced by something dumb. 1) Huell being stupid after the offense executed a high-low pass from Sam. 2) Lonnie CLEARLY getting fouled. ****ie V even said definitely contact there and should have been a foul.

That's 16 misses that were good looks. We will never make all of the good looks. Maybe not even half. You convert 6 of those 16? You score at least 81 points against Louisville.

I took screen shots of all 16 of these misses on my phone, but I can't figure out how to get them on here with my old ****** phone.

You can't change my mind because you're being super general, not providing any actual insight, and whether you admit it or not just basing your thoughts off our shooting percentage. Yes there is a correlation. Wednesday night, unfortunately we missed too many good looks.
 
[MENTION=1046]CTCANE[/MENTION] Lonnie hasn't shown any flashes huh?

He obviously did on Wed night. Incredible performance. Prior to that he had not played like a 5 star player. That's a fact. I also said if we are going to meet our preseason goals he needs to play like a top 10 recruit and I stand by that statement,
 
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