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WR recruiting profile

g8rh8rMD said:
Just saying what my eyes see. You don't see him leaving many guys on the turf due to making anyone miss, and we don't seem to get a lot of broken tackles out of him. Just not his game. He's got the quicks to find a seem and create some separation, but from what I've seen, he doesn't seem to have above average change of direction ability.
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After seeing the guys we rolled out to return punts last year, anybody would be an improvement.
 
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CaneThang2020 said:
@DMoney Are we making the mistake again by seemingly not recruiting Palmetto's Mike Jackson?
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He's fast but Devaughn Mortimer is more in line with that profile.
grover said:
@DMoney I'm curious where you would place Brinson, George and Smith? Smith's the only burner in that group, and as far as I can tell isn't in the Atwell, Benjamin, Moore, Dorsett level. Yet I feel like he's a baller and will be one at a high P5 level at Miami, too.
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I've struggled with this one. When I did my tiers, I had them all stacked next to each other with a cop-out answer. Brinson has exceptional length, deep speed and underrated toughness. True outside guy. George is a punt returner who is hard to press, quick at the top of the route and instinctual at the catch point with big hands. He's the least physically blessed of the three but the most pure receiver. Those guys typically do very well. Brashard Smith is the most explosive and someone I see as a Kedarius Toney-type weapon.

It's hard to compare them because they are at different spots, but they are all similar prospects to me in terms of impact. It's a good, balanced class.

With Ibieta, I would like to know why he's not returning punts. That's the only red flag I see. Does his coach think he's too stiff in the hips? Does he drop them? He's clearly impactful with the ball in his hands at that level so there must be a reason.
 
DMoney said:
He's fast but Devaughn Mortimer is more in line with that profile.

I've struggled with this one. When I did my tiers, I had them all stacked next to each other with a cop-out answer. Brinson has exceptional length, deep speed and underrated toughness. True outside guy. George is a punt returner who is hard to press, quick at the top of the route and instinctual at the catch point with big hands. He's the least physically blessed of the three but the most pure receiver. Those guys typically do very well. Brashard Smith is the most explosive and someone I see as a Kedarius Toney-type weapon.

It's hard to compare them because they are at different spots, but they are all similar prospects to me.

With Ibieta, I would like to know why he's not returning punts. That is the only red flag I see. Does his coach think he's too stiff in the hips? Does he drop them? He's clearly impactful with the ball in his hands at that level so there must be a reason.
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That's what we need if Rooster can't be it maybe he can
 
g8rh8rMD said:
The Bill Belichick approach. Makes sense.

The only thing I will say, is that to get over the hump and beat Baga, Clampson, or O$U, you will need a couple of those guys who can just flat out go get the ball and essentially can't be covered. When Clemson has been able to win it all, it's been at least in part because they had one or two of those guys who could make a few of those ridiculous plays per game that were the difference between 3 and out and a touchdown drive.

To get to step 1, which is winning our division and playing in the ACCCG 7+ years out of 10, we've already had all the talent we need. If we can do that for 4 out of the next 5 years and not get pantsed in Charlotte or the bowl game, I am highly confident that the elite talent that we'd need to get over the top will come.

For now, our problem is and has been coaching, not players.
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Unfortunately, at WR our problem has been players, also. (Coaching too, of course.)

My point is we should be requiring these traits. Take the best kids we can find with them. We'll win, and eventually, soon hopefully but eventually, we'll get some guys who both do all this and are elite at separation. But trying to reach for guys who we hope can catch and take a hit because their measureables look like someone else, that plan hasn't worked and likely won't work. Sounds like we agree here, just sayin....
 
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DMoney said:
He's fast but Devaughn Mortimer is more in line with that profile.

I've struggled with this one. When I did my tiers, I had them all stacked next to each other with a cop-out answer. Brinson has exceptional length, deep speed and underrated toughness. True outside guy. George is a punt returner who is hard to press, quick at the top of the route and instinctual at the catch point with big hands. He's the least physically blessed of the three but the most pure receiver. Those guys typically do very well. Brashard Smith is the most explosive and someone I see as a Kedarius Toney-type weapon.

It's hard to compare them because they are at different spots, but they are all similar prospects to me in terms of impact. It's a good, balanced class.

With Ibieta, I would like to know why he's not returning punts. That's the only red flag I see. Does his coach think he's too stiff in the hips? Does he drop them? He's clearly impactful with the ball in his hands at that level so there must be a reason.
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I've only watched a bit of his tape but he strikes me as he runs high and doesn't juke or change direction suddenly enough. I don't see him as a PR but KR he should be able to do so fair question why he isn't.
 
Ethnicsands said:
The Ibieta discussion sheds light on our overall WR approach. My $0.02:

In the NFL, WRs have to be physically terrific, because DBs are so talented, and defenses overall are sophisticated and coordinated well. Small differences matter a lot and too many unforced errors means you’re cut or sent to the practice squad. Likewise, DBs have to be great because see point 1.

In college, DBs aren’t as good, defenses aren’t as well practiced or coordinated, so the critical needs of a WR are different. It’s not as hard to get open, but unforced errors still cost downs and wins. And willingness to do the little things (like blocking downfield) rarely gets discussed but matters in big games.

We have over-focused WR recruiting on kids who have the physical ability to free up and separate, which is table stakes for the nfl. Somehow figuring they’d learn to catch and take contact. The reverse is what we should do in college - over-focus on kids who can catch and take hits (and do the little things). They’ll avoid the drops and make some plays. Some will end up becoming good at separation and end up surprising positively.
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Here’s the thing tho..everything you said is spot on. But, usually these kids are just physically more developed in high school then their competition. So it can be hard to Judge how they would respond to the athletes at the college level because they don’t always face that type of athlete who can match up with them. But overall yes you want to see them make contested tough catches on tape.
 
DTP said:
It's similar to the discussion we've been having with linebacker recently. Would it be great if we could sign a bunch of 6'3" 240 guys who run 4.5? Sure but those types aren't exactly common. So you look for traits that aren't measurable and focus your evaluations on that. Maybe a guy is shorter than ideal. Maybe the guy is lighter than ideal. Does he have the ability to diagnose and make plays? Is he constantly around the ball making tackles? Can he cover backs and receivers in man to man situations? Does he never look overwhelmed despite his lack of size? These are characteristics staffs need to consider when recruiting instead of over focusing on size and measurables and assuming they can be coached into good linebackers. Give me the smart guys with instincts and we'll let the strength coach work on adding muscle to his frame.
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So like Flagg?
 
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Coach Macho said:
Size is pretty irrelevant at the slot. You don't get press coverage there. You'd prefer a quicker guy at that spot because there's more space to work, you have a 3-way go, etc.
Plus a quick/fast guy can get to the Safety much faster. This gives the secondary problems.

It's good to have big WR's on the outside though. You generally get bigger Corners out there, more press coverage, there's less space to work with for a small/quick guy, etc. There's really only 2 type of routes you can run...vertical stemmed routes or inside routes...and it's good to have size on those routes in order to "box out" the CB.

Generally CB's are the fastest players on the field. (by NFL combine averages)
If you have a whole WR unit of small fast guys, there's a good chance that the defense can match-up with that. (they have small fast guys in the secondary)
However, it's hard to match-up with a 6'3"-6'5" WR on the outside, doesn't matter how fast your CB is. He's gonna get "boxed out" by that big WR.

I've been doing this for 15 years. Have faced tons of "fast" D1 level WR's down here. Completely shut-down two "fast" First Team All State WR's in 2019-2020. (just kept a Safety over the top) However, nobody has given me more problems than Western's Julian Lewis...cause he was so **** big and physical. We had no answer for him. Our CB's last season were simply too small. He would catch the ball even with our CB draped all over him. Same thing would happen in practice versus Bryce Gowdy a couple years ago. When facing fast WR's (Brian Robinson in 2019 for example) we just used our big CB to beat him up at the LOS and then kept a Safety over the top of him. But that doesn't really do **** when facing a big/physical WR who's 3+ inches taller than your CB... cause he's "bodying" your little CB on every short/intermediate route.

This is one of the reasons size/length matters at the CB position. (also longer reach/defensive radius)
Covering a small/quick WR with big CB's is easier than covering big WR's with small/average CB's.
Big WR's are always open, even when they're covered.

(referring mainly to the outside WR's)
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Size helps when the kids are tough and can use their bodies and catch. We have had too many spots given to kid who were big but couldn't do those things well enough. We have looked for kids based on physical traits (size for many, speed measurables for others) and done a generally bad job of assessing whether they're actually good WR prospects. I'm definitely not saying go recruit all 5'9" WRs, but we need to stop taking kids who don't exhibit the table stakes traits of toughness, hands and physicality.

We have just not been good at projecting kids to acquire these traits and its not at all clear that kids pick them up if they're not already there in HS. You can learn to use your body better. You can practice catching. But if you're not tough, physical and good catching with your hands in HS, not sure it's a worthwhile use of a scholarship to hope you can become those things. Seems obvious to say but we've not done a good eval job at WR for so long....

My sense is we've cut the file to find kids with athletic profiles, then tried to get the best kids from what popped out, rather than cutting the file to find the kids with the right 'other' traits, then get the best guys you can from that group. We shouldn't mess with kids who don't have the toughness and hands no matter how exciting they seem as athletes. At least not until we demonstrate we can identify and evaluate well at the position.
 
dantheman349 said:
So like Flagg?
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Flagg is going to be limited by his athleticism but I'd take him over a guy like Sam Brooks who's a better athlete but has no idea how to play off the ball linebacker.

Obviously there's an athletic range that any D1 kid has to be in to be successful no matter how smart he is. You can't be out there running 5.4 40 yard dashes and still be successful.
 
DTP said:
Flagg is going to be limited by his athleticism but I'd take him over a guy like Sam Brooks who's a better athlete but has no idea how to play off the ball linebacker.
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him and Huff im hoping can take the next step this year in camp
 
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305to954 said:
Here’s the thing tho..everything you said is spot on. But, usually these kids are just physically more developed in high school then their competition. So it can be hard to Judge how they would respond to the athletes at the college level because they don’t always face that type of athlete who can match up with them. But overall yes you want to see them make contested tough catches on tape.
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Well said. I'm not suggesting it's obvious which kids to take. I'm coming closer to suggesting it's obvious which kids not to take. You're still going to have to make projections and tough calls, because like you note, it's harder in college. But that just highlights that your probabilities will improve if you're not trying to project kids who don't do those things in HS.
 
dantheman349 said:
him and Huff im hoping can take the next step this year in camp
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I like Huff because he's got the size speed combination you want with some experience playing linebacker at STA. He wasn't just lining up at DE and rushing the passer every down. Why he's having so much trouble getting on the field so far? No idea.
 
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305to954 said:
I rooster at KR..idk about PR. PR I’d have someone I trust. Harley. Restrepo should get another look as well. During the scrimmages it was Stevenson mostly if I recall correctly
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I want him on both return teams, unless he can't field punts. I think he is the best "open space" guy we have right now. If TS really is that SHUTDOWN CB people here think I don't want him getting protocoled returning punts tbh.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Probably because it's a university.
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Pour One Out Malt Liquor GIF
 
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