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Williams versus Perry

OriginalGatorHater said:
I understand the importance of the 4th, but its not more important than the entire rest of the game. Rosier played the easiest schedule we have seen in a long time with the best coach and the best players around him. That is why he scored so many points. Kaayas senior year was the year when the ACC dominated in the bowl games. His sophomore year we played 3 teams that finished in the top 15. His freshman year we played 2 teams that finished in the top 10 and another that finished in the top 25. When you play worse competition you are expected to score more points.
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You do realize that last year we played the below? Our strength of schedule was ranked between 8th and 19th in the country depending on where you look.

#4 Clemson
#7 Wisconsin
#11 Notre Dame
#24 Virginia Tech
 
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ThomasM said:
Because teams like Navy and GaTech base their entire O on the run, while we do not. Ours is based on the run AND the pass. It's why we have some of the most elite WRs in the country. For OUR O to work, we need to hit passes, because we don't run an option style O. It would be cool to be able to break out the option when our QB can't hit the broad side of the barn, but it's kind of hard to execute that O if you don't live and breathe it for 12 months.

Even in an option attack, it is successful when teams think one guy is going to get the ball, but it goes to someone else. I promise you, if the fullback dive was the only play they ran, it would be shut down. Just like when our passing game is not working, it's easier to take away our run game.
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I don’t care what an opposing team bases their offense on. The idea here is just how easy it is to load up and stop the run. The good teams... those that finished in the AP top 15, they didn’t play 9 games without a guy breaking 100 on the ground like we did. They didn’t get completely shutout running against 3-9 UNC and 4-8 Pitt like we did.

Do you think we were the first team to consider shutting down Notre Dame’s run game and forcing Wimbush to throw? Yeah. They finished the season 8th in rush yards per game. We were 79th, and if you take away Rosier’s 468, we would have ranked 115th. The next worse Top 15 team was 59th.

It’s pathetic that teams were able to maul us in the trenches. Our rush stats only go from garbage to clutter because of the early season success we found with Rosier and the zone read.
 
I ain’t patting Rosier on the back for anything he didn’t do, but if you were to say last September that Rosier was going to be our QB and our running backs were going to rank 115th in Rushing yards per game, but we would win 10 games and be ranked #2 going in to the final week of the season, ain’t a man alive that wouldn’t have thought you were stone stupid.
 
Loose Cannon said:
Dude. Knock it off. It’s a false narrative that is completely stupid. If the plan was to force Rosier to make a play, he accounted for over 3600 yards and 31 TDs. If that was the plan it was a stupid plan that 10 teams failed at, and only the one team against whom we were way under matched, had real success.

UNC should not be able to hold us to 42 yards rushing ever, and when your QB accounts for 376 yards and 4 TDs that game, instead of nitpicking every throw he missed, perhaps we should look into what else was wrong that day. Maybe we ought to be asking why nobody besides Rosier was able to contribute.

And yes. Rosier played flat out terrible against Pitt, but we ran the ball for 16 yards. How are people not embarrassed by that? How can morons look at that game and single out the QB. We got pushed around in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

You’re a fool if you think we’re going to have a QB that has a good game every game. Rosier never was great, but he was between okay and pretty good most games. But when he was off, nobody stepped up. We’ve always known his limitations and that he’d never be the type of guy to carry the team.

You know, in 2001 Dorsey was a 56% passer, but in our three toughest games, BC, FSU, and VT, he was between 44-49%

I wonder why those three didn’t try loading the box to stop the run.
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We can single out the QB the same way you single out Kaaya and the same way you single out Rosier and say he won us 10 games. Did I ever say our run game was elite, but when you have no passing game it is hard to get the ball moving on the ground. Just look at Army, Navy, and GT when they go against teams with capable defenses. The run gets shut down. We arent heads and tails above every other team in the ACC yet so we can't just run it through their gut without passing it every once in a while. Hmmm. I wonder why they wheren't able to load the box and stop the best backfield in college football history. Even the 4th string runningback played in the NFL. Rosier had exactly 0 good games. If you can't make reads and you can't hit your targets its impossible to do well. I don't understand how you can't figure that out. Did you just start watching football this season?
 
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STG said:
You do realize that last year we played the below? Our strength of schedule was ranked between 8th and 19th in the country depending on where you look.

#4 Clemson
#7 Wisconsin
#11 Notre Dame
#24 Virginia Tech
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The whole ACC was underanked last year as you could see by our bowl game record. Our schedule last year was WAY tougher then this years. in 2015 we played No 2 clemson who would have dominated last years Clemson. #14 FSU who would have wrecked the overated Whisky team. Notre Dame was also WAY overated last year and would have lost to #15 UNC. WSU and Nebraska where better than Va Tech.
 
STG said:
You do realize that last year we played the below? Our strength of schedule was ranked between 8th and 19th in the country depending on where you look.

#4 Clemson
#7 Wisconsin
#11 Notre Dame
#24 Virginia Tech
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OriginalGatorHater said:
The whole ACC was underanked last year as you could see by our bowl game record. Our schedule last year was WAY tougher then this years. in 2015 we played No 2 clemson who would have dominated last years Clemson. #14 FSU who would have wrecked the overated Whisky team. Notre Dame was also WAY overated last year and would have lost to #15 UNC. WSU and Nebraska where better than Va Tech.
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That's all opinion, none of that is fact about who would win. What is a fact is that the 2017 squad played 4 teams in the top 25 and 3 in the top 11. And at worst had a SOS of schedule 19th and as high as 8th. So you stating it was an easy schedule is completely false.
 
STG said:
That's all opinion, none of that is fact about who would win. What is a fact is that the 2017 squad played 4 teams in the top 25 and 3 in the top 11. And at worst had a SOS of schedule 19th and as high as 8th. So you stating it was an easy schedule is completely false.
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If you don't want to take common sense into account than the ncaa rankings are all opinion as well. In addition to be an opinion they are severly biased and there is no reason why Notre Dame or Wisconsin should be that high. Wisconsins schedule was even easier than ours and lost to every team that had a pulse. If you honestly can sit here and tell me that this years schedule is not the easiest we played in recent history than you need to learn a thing or two about football.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Did I ever say our run game was elite, but when you have no passing game it is hard to get the ball moving on the ground.
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Not elite? How about trash. Our running game is trash. And it has nothing to do with Malik Rosier. He actually made our rushing numbers look better than the absolute garbage fire they have been ever since Duke Johnson left. We ranked 79th last season. We were 101st the year before and 118th in 2015. This idea that teams have needed to load the box to keep us from running is absolute bull****. Pitt heald us to 16 freaking yards with nothing but their front 4. UNC held us to 42. Our running game is garbage and has been for several years now. Our O-line is garbage and has been for several years now. Last season we saw only marginal improvement in those two areas, and all the gains that were made in the 2017 off-season were erased by having to play 10 straight games without a break.

We arent heads and tails above every other team in the ACC yet so we can't just run it through their gut without passing it every once in a while.
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Well no ******* ****. What makes you think we should be able to air-raid pass it on every team? Here's the funny little thing that ought to put your little "we couldn't run because Rosier..." nonsense to rest, though--as if showing how we were a worse rushing team with what you consider a "good" QB shouldn't have been enough. In the games where we really struggled running the ball? We actually got really decent QB play until the very end of the season, and the man says he played with a hurt throwing shoulder.
Against Duke our tailbacks combined for 94 yards while Rosier accounted for 315
Against FSU our tailbacks combined for 54 yards while Rosier accounted for 283
Against Syracuse our tailbacks combined for 95 yards while Rosier accounted for 389
Against UNC our tailbacks combined for 42 yards while Rosier accounted for 376
Against Pitt our tailbacks combined for 16 yards while Rosier accounted for 218

Notice how it was only after UNC, the game they said Rosier hurt his shoulder, where he stopped being able to bail out the **** poor rushing attack. Funny how it was only after that did teams' plan of stopping the run and forcing Rosier to throw actually start producing wins. Never mind facts though. I'm sure he was **** all year.

Whatever you decide to blame it on, though, we played at a higher level than should have been possible with our available talent and depth in 2017. You can try to pretend that just swapping out one component is going to make a huge difference, but I contend that if the o-line and production from the tailback spot isn't significantly improved, 10 wins and ACC runner-ups is our ceiling. It didn't make a difference when it was Kaaya taking snaps and everyone was blaming him for losses and it won't matter if it's Jarron Williams. We improved from 2015-2017 because the run game and the defense improved.
 
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Loose Cannon said:
Not elite? How about trash. Our running game is trash. And it has nothing to do with Malik Rosier. He actually made our rushing numbers look better than the absolute garbage fire they have been ever since Duke Johnson left. We ranked 79th last season. We were 101st the year before and 118th in 2015. This idea that teams have needed to load the box to keep us from running is absolute bull****. Pitt heald us to 16 freaking yards with nothing but their front 4. UNC held us to 42. And we managed a whopping 20 yards from the tailback position against the elite defense known as Syracuse. Our running game is garbage and has been for several years now. Our O-line is garbage and has been for several years now. Last season we saw only marginal improvement in those two areas, and all the gains that were made in the 2017 off-season were erased by having to play 10 straight games without a break.



Well no ******* ****. What makes you think we should be able to air-raid pass it on every team? Here's the funny little thing that ought to put your little "we couldn't run because Rosier..." nonsense to rest, though--as if showing how we were a worse rushing team with what you consider a "good" QB shouldn't have been enough. In the games where we really struggled running the ball? We actually got really decent QB play until the very end of the season, and the man says he played with a hurt throwing shoulder.
Against Duke our tailbacks combined for 94 yards while Rosier accounted for 315
Against FSU our tailbacks combined for 54 yards while Rosier accounted for 283
Against Syracuse our tailbacks combined for 20 yards while Rosier accounted for 389
Against UNC our tailbacks combined for 42 yards while Rosier accounted for 376
Against Pitt our tailbacks combined for 16 yards while Rosier accounted for 218

Notice how it was only after UNC, the game they said Rosier hurt his shoulder, where he stopped being able to bail out the **** poor rushing attack. Funny how it was only after that did teams' plan of stopping the run and forcing Rosier to throw actually start producing wins. Never mind facts though. I'm sure he was **** all year.

Whatever you decide to blame it on, though, we played at a higher level than should have been possible with our available talent and depth in 2017. You can try to pretend that just swapping out one component is going to make a huge difference, but I contend that if the o-line and production from the tailback spot isn't significantly improved, 10 wins and ACC runner-ups is our ceiling. It didn't make a difference when it was Kaaya taking snaps and everyone was blaming him for losses and it won't matter if it's Jarron Williams. We improved from 2015-2017 because the run game and the defense improved.
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This is the worst kind of cherry picking you've done to date. Of course Malik had more yards than anyone, he's the QB. You don't account for the fact his **** poor completion percentage and average yard per carries stopped the flow of any offense in many of those games. He dominated touches every single time he went out on the field.

Our running backs only had 10 carries the entire game at Pitt while Malik threw it 34 times and ran it another 12.

Against FSU Malik threw it 44 times and ran it another 14 times. Our running backs had only 15 carries all day,

Syracuse-43 passes and 9 rushes. Homer had 95 yards on 20 carries.

UNC-Malik accounted for 38 passes and 12 runs. All running backs combined 18.

Your obsession to be correct by taking numbers and skewing them to fit your argument is getting more and more ludicrous.
 
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Go Canes!! said:
This is the worst kind of cherry you've done to date. Of course Malik had more yards than anyone, he's the QB. You don't account for the fact his **** poor completion percentage and average yard per carries stopped the flow of any offense in many of those games. He dominated touches every single time he went out on the field.

Our running backs only had 10 carries the entire game at Pitt while Malik threw it 34 times and ran it another 12.

Against FSU Malik threw it 44 times and ran it another 14 times. Our running backs had only 15 carries all day,

Syracuse-43 passes and 9 rushes. Homer had 95 yards on 20 carries.

UNC-Malik accounted for 38 passes and 12 runs. All running backs combined 18.

Your obsession to be correct by taking numbers and skewing them to fit your argument is getting more and more ludicrous.
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You think Malik just up and decided to throw it more against UNC and Pitt all on his own, or maybe because CMR saw our backs were averaging 2.3 per carry and 1.6 per carry?

Nobody is cherry-picking anything except you morons who think our coaching staff decided to abandon the run and throw it 40 times a game because the passing game was so terrible...That's the basic premise you people are peddling and it's ridiculous. Not only is it not true, it requires that you ignore so much data to the contrary. Malik is why we couldn't run the ball even though last season was our best rushing the football since Duke Johnson. We played 9 teams that held us without a running back breaking 100 yards last season.

The 4 teams we did have a back go over 100 yards on? They ranked 47th, 51st, 79th, and Bethune Cookman...We ran the ball decent against teams that down right suck *** against the run and we were **** poor against everybody else.

North Carolina was 112th against the run and held our backs to 42 yards while Rosier threw for 356 yet the game was close because he was inaccurate.

Pitt was 42nd and held our backs to 16 yards.

These teams did not load the box to stop the run, either, and it shouldn't have even mattered. We suck running the ball against bad defenses and we are down right pitiful against decent defenses. Our ability to throw the ball did not effect that at all last season. We only ran the ball well against terrible defenses and even terrible defenses had far more success than they should have.
 
Loose Cannon said:
You think Malik just up and decided to throw it more against UNC and Pitt all on his own, or maybe because CMR saw our backs were averaging 2.3 per carry and 1.6 per carry?

Nobody is cherry-picking anything except you morons who think our coaching staff decided to abandon the run and throw it 40 times a game because the passing game was so terrible...That's the basic premise you people are peddling and it's ridiculous. Not only is it not true, it requires that you ignore so much data to the contrary. Malik is why we couldn't run the ball even though last season was our best rushing the football since Duke Johnson. We played 9 teams that held us without a running back breaking 100 yards last season.

The 4 teams we did have a back go over 100 yards on? They ranked 47th, 51st, 79th, and Bethune Cookman...We ran the ball decent against teams that down right suck *** against the run and we were **** poor against everybody else.

North Carolina was 112th against the run and held our backs to 42 yards while Rosier threw for 356 yet the game was close because he was inaccurate.

Pitt was 42nd and held our backs to 16 yards.

These teams did not load the box to stop the run, either, and it shouldn't have even mattered. We suck running the ball against bad defenses and we are down right pitiful against decent defenses. Our ability to throw the ball did not effect that at all last season. We only ran the ball well against terrible defenses and even terrible defenses had far more success than they should have.
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The only thing CMR saw in those game were wide open skill players streaking all over the field, only to be constantly missed by a QB who couldn’t throw it in the ocean from a boat in the middle of the Gulf Stream.
 
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Kaaya wont be missed... all those ducks he kept throwing trying to go deep only for our WRs to have to stop and get rolled up on bc his arm strength is terrible. How many rb screens did he settle for on 3rd and long?? he was a drive killer to say the least oh but that completion percentage bro? lol gtfoh I

It was terrible watching him play for us... every game was obvious what was going to happen. He is going to choke and disappear in the 2nd half and that's all he ever did.
 
Go Canes!! said:
The only thing CMR saw in those game were wide open skill players streaking all over the field, only to be constantly missed by a QB who couldn’t throw it in the ocean from a boat in the middle of the Gulf Stream.
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Which is why he called 45 pass plays per game. Makes perfect sense




To a ******* idiot.
 
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Loose Cannon said:
Not elite? How about trash. Our running game is trash. And it has nothing to do with Malik Rosier. He actually made our rushing numbers look better than the absolute garbage fire they have been ever since Duke Johnson left. We ranked 79th last season. We were 101st the year before and 118th in 2015. This idea that teams have needed to load the box to keep us from running is absolute bull****. Pitt heald us to 16 freaking yards with nothing but their front 4. UNC held us to 42. Our running game is garbage and has been for several years now. Our O-line is garbage and has been for several years now. Last season we saw only marginal improvement in those two areas, and all the gains that were made in the 2017 off-season were erased by having to play 10 straight games without a break.



Well no ******* ****. What makes you think we should be able to air-raid pass it on every team? Here's the funny little thing that ought to put your little "we couldn't run because Rosier..." nonsense to rest, though--as if showing how we were a worse rushing team with what you consider a "good" QB shouldn't have been enough. In the games where we really struggled running the ball? We actually got really decent QB play until the very end of the season, and the man says he played with a hurt throwing shoulder.
Against Duke our tailbacks combined for 94 yards while Rosier accounted for 315
Against FSU our tailbacks combined for 54 yards while Rosier accounted for 283
Against Syracuse our tailbacks combined for 95 yards while Rosier accounted for 389
Against UNC our tailbacks combined for 42 yards while Rosier accounted for 376
Against Pitt our tailbacks combined for 16 yards while Rosier accounted for 218

Notice how it was only after UNC, the game they said Rosier hurt his shoulder, where he stopped being able to bail out the **** poor rushing attack. Funny how it was only after that did teams' plan of stopping the run and forcing Rosier to throw actually start producing wins. Never mind facts though. I'm sure he was **** all year.

Whatever you decide to blame it on, though, we played at a higher level than should have been possible with our available talent and depth in 2017. You can try to pretend that just swapping out one component is going to make a huge difference, but I contend that if the o-line and production from the tailback spot isn't significantly improved, 10 wins and ACC runner-ups is our ceiling. It didn't make a difference when it was Kaaya taking snaps and everyone was blaming him for losses and it won't matter if it's Jarron Williams. We improved from 2015-2017 because the run game and the defense improved.
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Wow. You and your ****** friend @Tetragrammaton Cane really don't know wtf you are talking about. Notice how it was only after we started facing real competition that the drop off happened. We did NOT play at a higher level than we should have. We had significantly more talent then every team we faced besides Clemson and FSU.
https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

That is bull****. Yes our Oline play was poor, but Malik was straight up missing his targets. If we had someone who could actually hit his targets a lot of those games would have been over way earlier and we would have beat Whisky and Pitt. Did you not watch the games and just read stats? HE OVER THREW PEOPLE AND MISSED OPEN RECEIVERS EVEN WHEN HE WAS NOT RUSHED. I still can't believe you don't understand the fact that people didn't respect our passing game so they just put extra emphasis on our run game. Go rewatch any game of your choosing. The vast majority of defensive plays where plays concentrated on run defense. Look at how they lined up and react immediatly after the snap.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Wow. You and your ****** friend @Tetragrammaton Cane really don't know wtf you are talking about. Notice how it was only after we started facing real competition that the drop off happened. We did NOT play at a higher level than we should have. We had significantly more talent then every team we faced besides Clemson and FSU.
https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

That is bull****. Yes our Oline play was poor, but Malik was straight up missing his targets. If we had someone who could actually hit his targets a lot of those games would have been over way earlier and we would have beat Whisky and Pitt. Did you not watch the games and just read stats? HE OVER THREW PEOPLE AND MISSED OPEN RECEIVERS EVEN WHEN HE WAS NOT RUSHED. I still can't believe you don't understand the fact that people didn't respect our passing game so they just put extra emphasis on our run game. Go rewatch any game of your choosing. The vast majority of defensive plays where plays concentrated on run defense. Look at how they lined up and react immediatly after the snap.
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Dude. No. You are just flat wrong. UNC had the 112th ranked rushing defense in the nation and they held us to 42 yards. We didn’t start dropping off rushing after we started facing good competition. We sucked running the ball all season for the past 3 seasons. We only even looked halfway decent against garbage defenses.

Look at it this way. That supposedly trash *** FSU team had 222 yards rushing on our supposedly elite defense. We didn’t put up even half that against 9 teams.

Elite teams have a balanced offense and a solid defense. I don’t care if you put all 11 guys in the box, you can’t stop an elite team from gaining 90-150 yards rushing.

Great teams usually have either an elite running game or passing game, as well as a decent defense. You might be able to slow their strength, but not stop it. Their defense generally does enough.

Good teams usually either run the ball great, pass the ball great, or play really good defense, but never all 3. Good teams win 10 to 11 a year but always lose to the great or elite teams.

Mediocre teams are generally pretty good in one area, decent in another, but absolutely suck in another. This is where we are. We have a pretty good defense. The passing game is decent. The run game sucks ***.
 
Loose Cannon said:
Dude. No. You are just flat wrong. UNC had the 112th ranked rushing defense in the nation and they held us to 42 yards. We didn’t start dropping off rushing after we started facing good competition. We sucked running the ball all season for the past 3 seasons. We only even looked halfway decent against garbage defenses.

Look at it this way. That supposedly trash *** FSU team had 222 yards rushing on our supposedly elite defense. We didn’t put up even half that against 9 teams.

Elite teams have a balanced offense and a solid defense. I don’t care if you put all 11 guys in the box, you can’t stop an elite team from gaining 90-150 yards rushing.

Great teams usually have either an elite running game or passing game, as well as a decent defense. You might be able to slow their strength, but not stop it. Their defense generally does enough.

Good teams usually either run the ball great, pass the ball great, or play really good defense, but never all 3. Good teams win 10 to 11 a year but always lose to the great or elite teams.

Mediocre teams are generally pretty good in one area, decent in another, but absolutely suck in another. This is where we are. We have a pretty good defense. The passing game is decent. The run game sucks ***.
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No. You are wrong. I understand the narrative you are trying to push, but it is not accurate. Our run game is not elite. I never said it was. Its not even great, but when the other team knows you can't throw the ball it is very easy to hinder the run game even further. I never said our defense was elite either. We made subpar QBs look like heisman winners(Pitt, Virginia, Duke, Syracuse, Whisky, Clemson, etc). However part of that was because they where so tired from constantly being on the field. Our defense bailed out Rosier numerous times throughout the season. Even people with just the most basic understanding of football knows that the defense gets wore out quicker than the offense and when the offense starts to go three and out or throw tons of ints they get exposed even worse. Our defense and run game where both subpar, but it was made even worse since our QB wasn't able to allow the defense to rest and wasn't able to keep the defense on their toes since they know he couldn't hit his targets. The main point of my argument was if you rewatch all of our games the number of open receivers that where either over/under thrown or not seen by the QB at all was atrocious. Any QB that could make simple reads and actually throw on target would have blown every team we played out. Kaaya was capable of that even with all of his flaws.
 
Liberty City El said:
Kaaya - Better pure passer, more accurate & prototypical pocket passer.
Lacked athletic ability, slow read going through progressions, wasn't a leader & didn't have the competitive fire to bring a team back from a deficit.

Rosier - Gutsy, unconscious thrower (that's both good/bad), better mobility, leadership & could rally teammates around him in crunch time. Also inaccurate, inconsistent mechanically & streaky.

Neither of them seem to have championship pedigree, I highly doubt Rosier wins an ACC title this year but he'll at least have another shot at it. No need to go to war over the QB's, they both have their strengths & weaknesses, same with JW, Perry & Weldon.

Rosier wasn't 100% to blame for all our struggles, but the idea he was perfect & deserves no criticism for his poor play is plain silly. Mark, Lil Jon & Coach Brown have all criticized him as they should, because he's the QB & therefore he needs to be held to a higher standard than just being average & having excuses made for him. He needs to play better & he's said that himself.

I have serious doubts about Rosier, but the fact is he's going to be our QB this season & all we can do is hope he's improved. We shall see.
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Well put LCE, I think Rosier starts against LSU, but if he struggles, I think we are in our futures hands after that. (JW)
 
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