Williams versus Perry

[ThomasM]

I have been really digging deep into the high school re-wind series and I intentionally wanted to gauge Perry and Williams back to back. From a fundamental quarterbacking perspective I no doubt believe Williams was better coming out of high school. He simply is checking off more boxes here. Anticipation seems more prevalent from Williams. (I'll attach an example) He understands coverages better. Ball out is quicker when the blitz comes. And when Williams decides to run, it usually is a by product of rhythm coverage justification or because of an outright bust along the offensive line.

Now to be honest, I would believe that Perry being in the system one year longer would essentially give him the upper hand over Williams. Now that spring has passed and you see Richt make a reference about Perry running too early and Williams being fundamentally sound? These high school background checks don't seem to be too far off.

So the formula could be this simple for me. The fact Jarren came out of high school more fundamentally sound than Perry is the reason he is factoring quicker than Perry did. I will tabulate the totals soon (Still working on the breakdowns) but ultimately I will tell you William's re-wind ranking will be higher than Perry.

Nope. If we can blame Rosier for Toledo scoring 30 points to make a 52-30 game blow out "close," we're not going to excuse defensive performances for the other QB.

We were losing that game at half time. Just another incomplete game from our O.

 

[umhurricane2511]

Some of you really need to take a break from the internet for a while

 

[Loose Cannon]

Get Rosiers **** out of your mouth. The guy threw for 43% against FSU. The defense got tired after being on the field the whole game. If we had Kaaya hitting his receivers the game would not have came down to the 4th quarter. As far as GT goes. They suck. That impressed no one. Kaaya beat GT every year except the year that they finished 8th in the AP and almost beat FSU.

Bull****. Through 3 quarters James Blackmon was 8 for 19 with 61 yards and 2 INT's. Why the **** didn't their defense get wore out? Because they had 222 yards from their tail backs and we had 54. We got our *** whipped in the trenches and deserved to lose that game. It was only thanks to a super human effort from Berrios and some timely throws from Malik that that game was won.

 

[Loose Cannon]

We were losing that game at half time. Just another incomplete game from our O.

We scored double digits in three of 4 quarters and ended up with 52 against a pretty **** good Toledo team. It was close because the defense gave up 30, and no other reason.

 

[classiccane12]

Another idiot. The only reason Rosier needed to make those comeback drives was because he ****ed up so badly in the first 3 quarters. It is simple math that if that if you score more points than the other team you win. It doesnt matter if you score them in the first 3 quarters or the last quarter. I will take the guy that plays well for 3 quarters and then decent in the 4th quarter over the guy who sucks for 3 quarters and then plays pretty well for the 4th quarter.

Dude I mean you said it yourself, the team who scores the most points wins. And the team scored more points 10 times with Rosier. That is a real fact.

They often could not with Kaaya. Saying that does not mean it was all Kaayas fault. Kaaya did more than enough for a lot of those games to win. But come on man, most games come down to the 4th quarter, every qb on every team college or pro has to make plays at the end to win games it doesn't matter how it gets there. And everyone knows it is the 4th quarter where you make your worth. As a Cane fan you should understand the importance of the 4th. We invented the **** 4 finger tradition. ( I'm taking credit for it so what) That's part of what was so frustrating about Kaaya, you knew he had the ability to close out games but he and the team often just could not.

I said before I honestly think the outcome is about the same last year with Kaaya. About 10 wins, hard to say with any confidence we win the ACCCG with him though. But the only real FACT is that we did win 10 with Rosier. And as bad as he played at times, we won a few of them bc of his play late in games specifically.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I never “blamed” Rosier for playing well vs Cuse, in fact I said last year it was one of his best games.

I also never said we were running vs 9 man fronts vs Pitt, I was speaking in general about Defenses not respecting the pass & loading up the box if they don’t think you can beat them deep. Go check the thread I never specified or implied Pitt.

I know. I wasn't referring to you, with that.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Bull****. Through 3 quarters James Blackmon was 8 for 19 with 61 yards and 2 INT's. Why the **** didn't their defense get wore out? Because they had 222 yards from their tail backs and we had 54. We got our *** whipped in the trenches and deserved to lose that game. It was only thanks to a super human effort from Berrios and some timely throws from Malik that that game was won.

You are dumber than I thought. Their defense did get worn out that was why Rosier performed better in the 4th quarter than he did the rest of the game. He was going against players who where dragging them self back to the line of scrimmage.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Dude I mean you said it yourself, the team who scores the most points wins. And the team scored more points 10 times with Rosier. That is a real fact.

They often could not with Kaaya. Saying that does not mean it was all Kaayas fault. Kaaya did more than enough for a lot of those games to win. But come on man, most games come down to the 4th quarter, every qb on every team college or pro has to make plays at the end to win games it doesn't matter how it gets there. And everyone knows it is the 4th quarter where you make your worth. As a Cane fan you should understand the importance of the 4th. We invented the **** 4 finger tradition. ( I'm taking credit for it so what) That's part of what was so frustrating about Kaaya, you knew he had the ability to close out games but he and the team often just could not.

I said before I honestly think the outcome is about the same last year with Kaaya. About 10 wins, hard to say with any confidence we win the ACCCG with him though. But the only real FACT is that we did win 10 with Rosier. And as bad as he played at times, we won a few of them bc of his play late in games specifically.

I understand the importance of the 4th, but its not more important than the entire rest of the game. Rosier played the easiest schedule we have seen in a long time with the best coach and the best players around him. That is why he scored so many points. Kaayas senior year was the year when the ACC dominated in the bowl games. His sophomore year we played 3 teams that finished in the top 15. His freshman year we played 2 teams that finished in the top 10 and another that finished in the top 25. When you play worse competition you are expected to score more points.

 

[Loose Cannon]

You are dumber than I thought. Their defense did get worn out that was why Rosier performed better in the 4th quarter than he did the rest of the game. He was going against players who where dragging them self back to the line of scrimmage.

So you don't see a problem at all with the fact that through three quarters our running backs had 25 yards while theirs had close to 200? Just Rosier played bad. Not the O-line that couldn't get a push running the ball and not the defense giving up 222 yards rushing? Rosier was why it was close and the rest of the team bailed him out?

 

[Loose Cannon]

I understand the importance of the 4th, but its not more important than the entire rest of the game. Rosier played the easiest schedule we have seen in a long time with the best coach and the best players around him. That is why he scored so many points. Kaayas senior year was the year when the ACC dominated in the bowl games. His sophomore year we played 3 teams that finished in the top 15. His freshman year we played 2 teams that finished in the top 10 and another that finished in the top 25. When you play worse competition you are expected to score more points.

And we lost all five of those games as well as 7 others against teams that finished unranked. This season, not two combined, we played 4 teams that finished in the top 25, 2 in the top 10, and we were 2 for 4 instead of 0-5 and only lost one game against an unranked team. So don't try to pull that mess about playing worse teams. Playing UNC close in 2017 ain't no **** worse than losing to a 3-9 UNC team in 2016 or a 4-8 Notre Dame team that beat Army, Nevada, Syracuse, and us. And Richt was the coach in those, too.

And don't even get me started on that 2015 embarrassment in Cincinnati. Toledo, Memphis, BYU, USF, Houston, and San Diego State managed to beat the Bear cats, but Brad Kaaya and the Hurricanes couldn't pull it off.

It is a flat lie to say that 2014-2016 Hurricanes lost games because they played better teams than the 2017 Hurricanes beat.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

So you don't see a problem at all with the fact that through three quarters our running backs had 25 yards while theirs had close to 200? Just Rosier played bad. Not the O-line that couldn't get a push running the ball and not the defense giving up 222 yards rushing? Rosier was why it was close and the rest of the team bailed him out?

Its easy to stop the run when you know the QB cannot throw. Rewatch the game. They loaded the box and basically begged us to try and run on them.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

And we lost all five of those games as well as 7 others against teams that finished unranked. This season, not two combined, we played 4 teams that finished in the top 25, 2 in the top 10, and we were 2 for 4 instead of 0-5 and only lost one game against an unranked team. So don't try to pull that mess about playing worse teams. Playing UNC close in 2017 ain't no **** worse than losing to a 3-9 UNC team in 2016 or a 4-8 Notre Dame team that beat Army, Nevada, Syracuse, and us. And Richt was the coach in those, too.

And don't even get me started on that 2015 embarrassment in Cincinnati. Toledo, Memphis, BYU, USF, Houston, and San Diego State managed to beat the Bear cats, but Brad Kaaya and the Hurricanes couldn't pull it off.

It is a flat lie to say that 2014-2016 Hurricanes lost games because they played better teams than the 2017 Hurricanes beat.

So you honestly think Rosier who can't make reads or hit his receivers would have done any better? That is laughable. Why isn't Rosier getting drafted then if he is better than Kaaya? Clearly you don't know **** about football. The talent difference between the teams we played last season was MUCH greater than the talent difference between the teams Kaaya faced. Rosier still kept it close and lost to 2 of those inferior teams.

 

[Go Canes!!]

UNC record in 3 Kaaya starts 25-15
UNC record in 1 Rosier start 3-9-with wins over Old Dominion, Pitt and Western Carolina

FSU record in 3 Kaaya starts 33-7
FSU record in 1 Rosier start 7-6-and we know how they got to that record

 

[FrancisSawyer]

I don't want to be one of those hindsight is 20-20 guys but when I watched Perry's film back then WRs were open all over the place which made me wary because I didn't see any tight throws. Then posters here who seem to be in tune in the HS game said the competition Perry played in HS was terrible which made me even more wary because the sudden jump in competition might overwhelm him. I was back and forth on the Perry train not because I believed Perry was going to be this great player I just thought he couldn't be any worst then Evans or Malik.

We'll see. The thing with Jarren is I don't think he has a big arm IMO, but he is the only thing that resembles a decent looking QB. I wonder if he isn't playing well when he is in with the 1's.

You are right about Perry in terms of the sudden jump in level of competition being something he had to get used to. Now, I still think that Perry will develop into a very good QB but that will take a little more time. That's ok. There is no shame in needing 2+ years to properly develop and I honestly think that in a solid year and another summer, that Perry will begin to come into his own. The unfortunate thing for Perry is that the EE true freshman Williams is much more polished and developed as a QB at this point and if Williams seizes the job this Fall, he isn't going to relinquish it any time soon. We will see what happens but I am in complete agreement with the OP as I made a similar proclamation about a week ago.

Regarding Williams's arm strength, sure it isn't a cannon like Perry's but in no way is arm strength a weakness for Williams. His arm is plenty strong enough and he can make all the requisite throws.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Its easy to stop the run when you know the QB cannot throw. Rewatch the game. They loaded the box and basically begged us to try and run on them.

Blackmon had 61 whole yards passing through 3 quarters and it didn’t stop FSU running the football.
How come GaTech and Navy lead the league in rushing every year. I’m sure teams will be glad to know that all you need to do to beat UGA, Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson is stop the run and make their QB throw.

Dude every team in the final AP top 15 was in the top 50 in rushing yards per game Penn State and Us. Penn State was 54th. We were 79th. 25 spots behind the second worst rushing team in the top 15.

We didn’t have a running back gain 50 yards in four separate games. They got 42 against UNC and 16 against Pitt. By the end of the season our o-line was trash and it showed in the run game and in the passing game.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Blackmon had 61 whole yards passing through 3 quarters and it didn’t stop FSU running the football.
How come GaTech and Navy lead the league in rushing every year. I’m sure teams will be glad to know that all you need to do to beat UGA, Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson is stop the run and make their QB throw.

Dude every team in the final AP top 15 was in the top 50 in rushing yards per game Penn State and Us. Penn State was 54th. We were 79th. 25 spots behind the second worst rushing team in the top 15.

We didn’t have a running back gain 50 yards in four separate games. They got 42 against UNC and 16 against Pitt. By the end of the season our o-line was trash and it showed in the run game and in the passing game.

I wonder why a team that runs 99% of the time leads the league in rushing yards. I wonder why those teams don't win the championship every year with all those rushing yards. You also can't compare that to us since they practice to only run the ball and have three running backs(who can also pass) in the backfield at all times and constantly run trick plays. The point is when you know the QB can't throw the ball you can load up the box and make him throw. Just look at Clemson vs Bama last year. When teams are vastly outmatched then even if you load the box they can still run it over you, but when two teams are evenly matched, but one team can't throw the ball it is a lot easier to stop the run. You don't think it is a huge advantage to know that the other team is going to run the ball on a particular play?

 

[OptimusCreampie]

This thread is a joke. Unless you are one of the UM coaches who sees these players every day none of you have a clue. Yet you are talking like 10 year olds. Richt will play the best players at their position. Williams doesnt know the offense yet . He is a great prospect -but start the LSU game thats a big laugh.

Wait **** ... Is this not a discussion forum ....

 

[ThomasM]

We scored double digits in three of 4 quarters and ended up with 52 against a pretty **** good Toledo team. It was close because the defense gave up 30, and no other reason.

Blackmon had 61 whole yards passing through 3 quarters and it didn’t stop FSU running the football.
How come GaTech and Navy lead the league in rushing every year. I’m sure teams will be glad to know that all you need to do to beat UGA, Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson is stop the run and make their QB throw.

Dude every team in the final AP top 15 was in the top 50 in rushing yards per game Penn State and Us. Penn State was 54th. We were 79th. 25 spots behind the second worst rushing team in the top 15.

We didn’t have a running back gain 50 yards in four separate games. They got 42 against UNC and 16 against Pitt. By the end of the season our o-line was trash and it showed in the run game and in the passing game.

Because teams like Navy and GaTech base their entire O on the run, while we do not. Ours is based on the run AND the pass. It's why we have some of the most elite WRs in the country. For OUR O to work, we need to hit passes, because we don't run an option style O. It would be cool to be able to break out the option when our QB can't hit the broad side of the barn, but it's kind of hard to execute that O if you don't live and breathe it for 12 months.

Even in an option attack, it is successful when teams think one guy is going to get the ball, but it goes to someone else. I promise you, if the fullback dive was the only play they ran, it would be shut down. Just like when our passing game is not working, it's easier to take away our run game.

 

[Cribby]

There’s actually dummies that think Rosier is better than Kayaa? Seriously?

I’m not the biggest BK guy but he was a far better qb than MR. He just played under Al majority of his career with an atrocious d. Imagine if the d got him four turnovers game? He’d went 12-1 last year with all the turnovers , and breaks this team had.

Brad probably has two wins over fsu if we make an xp and the D could stop somebody. He lit fsu up in Doak, and that was a far superior d than last years fsu.

Just compare the Pitt games between the two, BK went up and down the field on those guys, he actually had the offense humming from the middle of the season on.

There’s no comparison between the two. And like I said , I’m far from a Kayaa supporter.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I wonder why a team that runs 99% of the time leads the league in rushing yards. I wonder why those teams don't win the championship every year with all those rushing yards. You also can't compare that to us since they practice to only run the ball and have three running backs(who can also pass) in the backfield at all times and constantly run trick plays. The point is when you know the QB can't throw the ball you can load up the box and make him throw. Just look at Clemson vs Bama last year. When teams are vastly outmatched then even if you load the box they can still run it over you, but when two teams are evenly matched, but one team can't throw the ball it is a lot easier to stop the run. You don't think it is a huge advantage to know that the other team is going to run the ball on a particular play?

Dude. Knock it off. It’s a false narrative that is completely stupid. If the plan was to force Rosier to make a play, he accounted for over 3600 yards and 31 TDs. If that was the plan it was a stupid plan that 10 teams failed at, and only the one team against whom we were way under matched, had real success.

UNC should not be able to hold us to 42 yards rushing ever, and when your QB accounts for 376 yards and 4 TDs that game, instead of nitpicking every throw he missed, perhaps we should look into what else was wrong that day. Maybe we ought to be asking why nobody besides Rosier was able to contribute.

And yes. Rosier played flat out terrible against Pitt, but we ran the ball for 16 yards. How are people not embarrassed by that? How can morons look at that game and single out the QB. We got pushed around in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

You’re a fool if you think we’re going to have a QB that has a good game every game. Rosier never was great, but he was between okay and pretty good most games. But when he was off, nobody stepped up. We’ve always known his limitations and that he’d never be the type of guy to carry the team.

You know, in 2001 Dorsey was a 56% passer, but in our three toughest games, BC, FSU, and VT, he was between 44-49%

I wonder why those three didn’t try loading the box to stop the run.