Why this stuff will ALWAYS happen to us in recruiting....

[AlexCane]

People here are getting what C4L is saying screwed up.

This isn't and shouldn't be a reason that we don't make it back to prominence, but to ignore that the practice exists is naivete, AT BEST. Many of you unfortunately latched on to Matthew Thomas as a sign of the program's resurgence, when the program's resurgence is in fact much larger than the commitment of one player. It's bigger than Duke for christ sake. This is about the culture that Al is building. Whether it is successful or not remains to be seen, but it CERTAINLY shouldn't be judged by not getting the commitments of every great player in South Florida, when there is money going around.

We can and will win with or without them. Paying players isn't an excuse, it's a fact of life that we have to deal with and no...it won't stop the train.

The suggestion implicit here is that UM isn't doing these things. And while I want to think my school is on the up-and-up, I'm not naive enough to think that's the case. Every school is cheating in some fashion, some just on a larger scale than others.

 

[AlexCane]

I'm with Map. This is an excuse. This wasn't a problem when we were winning.

Winning cures everything.

Let's face it. We have not been an elite program for several years now. Regardless of the recent good news on the NCAA front, there are still uncertainties.

Once we start winning again, going to bowls, putting kids in the league, you won't hear of these excuses. (And that being said, we are always going to miss on a guy or two every year. That's just life. We can't "lock down" South Florida. Impossible nowadays.)

Its was a problem when we were winning, too. Dwayne Bowe?? Max Jean Gilles? ...but, yes, I agree, its an excuse, but an excuse can often be a reason, too. Still no excuse for failure (especially the top targets)...

Location is still the #1 factor in recruiting.

Larry: My point is ... when we're winning, we can afford to lose a guy or two. It's always going to happen. But, lately, we've stunk and some posters here are tying next year or the year after to whether Matthew Thomas comes here or not.

 

[jerzeycane]

People here are getting what C4L is saying screwed up.

This isn't and shouldn't be a reason that we don't make it back to prominence, but to ignore that the practice exists is naivete, AT BEST. Many of you unfortunately latched on to Matthew Thomas as a sign of the program's resurgence, when the program's resurgence is in fact much larger than the commitment of one player. It's bigger than Duke for christ sake. This is about the culture that Al is building. Whether it is successful or not remains to be seen, but it CERTAINLY shouldn't be judged by not getting the commitments of every great player in South Florida, when there is money going around.

We can and will win with or without them. Paying players isn't an excuse, it's a fact of life that we have to deal with and no...it won't stop the train.

The suggestion implicit here is that UM isn't doing these things. And while I want to think my school is on the up-and-up, I'm not naive enough to think that's the case. Every school is cheating in some fashion, some just on a larger scale than others.

Dog, there ain't a shred of doubt in my mind that we are doing some stuff that runs afoul of the NCAA rulebook, but there also ain't no doubt that we can't compete in the game that the SEC schools play. If they want someone, they are willing to make it worth their while.

For christ sake, I'm almost certain that at least some schools pay kids to not take visits, or threaten that the money they were promised goes out the window. We ain't got the resources for that kinda thing.

 

[AlexCane]

Don't disagree.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

People here are getting what C4L is saying screwed up.

This isn't and shouldn't be a reason that we don't make it back to prominence, but to ignore that the practice exists is naivete, AT BEST. Many of you unfortunately latched on to Matthew Thomas as a sign of the program's resurgence, when the program's resurgence is in fact much larger than the commitment of one player. It's bigger than Duke for christ sake. This is about the culture that Al is building. Whether it is successful or not remains to be seen, but it CERTAINLY shouldn't be judged by not getting the commitments of every great player in South Florida, when there is money going around.

We can and will win with or without them. Paying players isn't an excuse, it's a fact of life that we have to deal with and no...it won't stop the train.

The suggestion implicit here is that UM isn't doing these things. And while I want to think my school is on the up-and-up, I'm not naive enough to think that's the case. Every school is cheating in some fashion, some just on a larger scale than others.

No sir, then you missed my point, noticed that I said, we dont have the pockets that the big program had, not that we didnt have ANY pockets, or that we are choir boys in a cesspool of corruption. There is absolutely NO way we would be able to be competing if we werent at least trying to make some moves on some level.

 

[CaneSuger]

Note how this doesnt happen to Bama, or Texas, or some of those program that often. Yet being a Canes fan, every recruiting season is an adventure in sphinchter muscle contractions.

Why?

Simple.

We dont have the pockets that these other programs do. Plain and simple.

Others have alluded to it here, but who are we kidding. MANY of these kids come from poor neighborhoods and families. Many already have kids and baby mamas. They have large families, with uncles, cousins, grandmas, friends, "advisors", "coaches", "street agents" and all sorts of "hanger ons".

UM is not the predominant big school in the state with the majority of alumni and huge local alumni networks. Not like OSU in Ohio, Alabama, UT, Texas, etc. Those program can and DO get away with WHATEVER they want, since they are located in small college towns, with a local media that enables them and tows the party line. In contrast, UM is in a big city, with a hostile local media that sees itself as some investigative force out to constantly uncover anything it can at UM. The Gators dont have to deal with that in Gainsville. FSU doesnt have to deal with that in Tallahassee. But we do.

So UM has less money, less alumni, and less ability to hide anything even if it DID try to play that game, while our biggest talent base, is largely a poor urban area, which is RIPE PICKINGS for schools that can afford to pay. Mind you Im NOT saying every kid or family is doing this, but it happens in South Florida a LOT, and a lot more than any of us want to admit.

Think about this. How many small to mid size private schools can even COMPETE anymore in big Division I football? Its USC, ND, and Miami. And both of those are bigger than UM, and have much longer legacies. Its a miracle, and a testament to what a great program this is, and the strength of its family, that this program has been able to hold on and keep fighting against these odds.

Bottom line is, we will ALWAYS be fighting an uphill battle. Yes there are many local kids who dream of playing here, and many WILL come. This will get MUCH better when we start winning again. Its been a LONG time since we were a real player on the national scene, and most of today's recruits were too young to remember or care. But we are always going to face defections from kids who just need the money. And money is one thing that has ALWAYS been a part of College football, and always WILL be, no matter how much of a sham the NCAA puts on.

I feel I should neg you for this, but I won't. Definately neg-worthy though.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

As many have already stated in this thread we have to start winning and next year will be the start.

Golden has a plan....check.

Golden is a great recruiter......check. It's been evident throughout his career as an assistant, head coach and now head coach at UM. Many prognosticators have pointed out he is one of the top in the nation.

The.....NO EXCUSES crowd needs to wake up and face reality. To EXPECT to pull every recruit Pete was saying we were going to is just a dream.

When we start rolling off 10+ win seasons.....watch out. I feel very confident in our current class because Golden assembled it. He has shown to be a great talent evaluator and won't be left with his **** in his hand which had become common place here the previous decade.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

If we win, they WILL come. But this kind of sh*t is ALWAYS going to happen to us to one extent or another.. Its unavoidable when you have the set of factors at play in South Florida recruiting.

NONE of this is to say we cant land some great and stellar classes, but it will ALWAYS be a dogfight for us.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Exactly. In 2008, we landed almost every major local kid. Were those kids more morally righteous than the recruits this year?

Still had issues with corey Liuget and Patrick Johnson.

but it was nice to see guys like Marcus forston commit early and recruit for UM.

and Preston Parker, and Antone Smith, and every year there is a kid who slips away. Someone call me the next time we march into Alabama, or Texas, or Louisiana, and take the state's TOP player out from under Saban, or Miles' nose. LOL.

Look, we are goign to get talent, we are in a talent rich area. But guys want to act like this stuff isnt going on, and it ABSOLUTELY IS. I know for a fact it is. And always has been.

But unless we are at the TOP of our game, we are going to face tough battles. If this was an even playing field, would we even be discussing this? How would kids from Miami, want to go spend the next 4 years if f*ckign Tuscaloosa or Tallahassee or ****** MISSISSIPPI!! instead of chillin on South Beach and playing in front of friends and family?? LOL

I've "liked" a couple of your posts in this thread so don't take this as a disagreement, however, it could have something to do with enjoying the college experience, being treated as a god in SEC country which is the pinnacle of college football at this time and playing in front of 100,000 every weekend.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Exactly. In 2008, we landed almost every major local kid. Were those kids more morally righteous than the recruits this year?

Still had issues with corey Liuget and Patrick Johnson.

but it was nice to see guys like Marcus forston commit early and recruit for UM.

and Preston Parker, and Antone Smith, and every year there is a kid who slips away. Someone call me the next time we march into Alabama, or Texas, or Louisiana, and take the state's TOP player out from under Saban, or Miles' nose. LOL.

Look, we are goign to get talent, we are in a talent rich area. But guys want to act like this stuff isnt going on, and it ABSOLUTELY IS. I know for a fact it is. And always has been.

But unless we are at the TOP of our game, we are going to face tough battles. If this was an even playing field, would we even be discussing this? How would kids from Miami, want to go spend the next 4 years if f*ckign Tuscaloosa or Tallahassee or ****** MISSISSIPPI!! instead of chillin on South Beach and playing in front of friends and family?? LOL

I've "liked" a couple of your posts in this thread so don't take this as a disagreement, however, it could have something to do with enjoying the college experience, being treated as a god in SEC country which is the pinnacle of college football at this time and playing in front of 100,000 every weekend.

You could be treated as a God at any number of big time Football schools. Why arent kids trying to go to Boston College? Or UCLA? Have you seen UCLA's campus??? Is Ole Miss or Auburn really that much better of a "college experience"??

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Who the **** said I'm whining? You're the excuse-maker, not me.

What I'm saying is simple: don't automatically attribute a recruit's decision to go elsewhere as the result of illicit payments, when we have no **** clue and simply because it's a nice, convenient excuse.

I love Golden, but that doesn't mean I blindfold myself to his recruiting failures, only to remove the blindfold and blow him for his successes.

Recruiting failures? I'm trusting Al is doing better than 95% of coaches in America could do in the current situation we are in. Numerous recruiting experts have said Golden is a top 5 recruiter nationally. Just because he doesn't land a kid......doesn't make it a failure. If Thomas chooses to go else where Golden is going to be the last one I'll be blaming.

 

[jerzeycane]

The man pulled Tracy Howard out of the fire
Pulled Tyriq McCord when no one had a clue he was coming
Went across country to grab a top 5 JUCO player at a position of need
Went up to NJ to grab a top 5 defensive end in AQM
Kept the wolves at bay by holding on to Burns and Carter
And very well may STILL finish with 4 high school all american players (Grace, Collins, Bryant, and Coley)

Yet, we are going to point out Al Golden's failure to get Matthew Thomas? From the sounds of it, it's a miracle he's even considering us.

Golden goes to these in-homes with a vision in mind, not duct tape in his hands

 

[mapcane]

To me, not landing a super blue chip local kid at a need spot is a failure. Sorry, I don't care what the circumstances are. That is a kid you need to get to win in this program. Same if we lose Collins. If Texas doesn't land the top kids in their area, it's considered a failure. Same for OSU, etc.

I don't understand why people get so defensive. I love Golden Al, but that doesn't mean his success rate is 100% or that he doesn't lose recruiting wars. I understand that he dispenses the maximum effort, but we're not giving out rewards for effort, right? When the University of Miami doesn't land a top-10 national prospect at a local school, it's a failure barring exceptional circumstances. It's an absolute rule, imo.

Who the **** said I'm whining? You're the excuse-maker, not me.

What I'm saying is simple: don't automatically attribute a recruit's decision to go elsewhere as the result of illicit payments, when we have no **** clue and simply because it's a nice, convenient excuse.

I love Golden, but that doesn't mean I blindfold myself to his recruiting failures, only to remove the blindfold and blow him for his successes.

Recruiting failures? I'm trusting Al is doing better than 95% of coaches in America could do in the current situation we are in. Numerous recruiting experts have said Golden is a top 5 recruiter nationally. Just because he doesn't land a kid......doesn't make it a failure. If Thomas chooses to go else where Golden is going to be the last one I'll be blaming.

 

[Joecane]

JUST WIN BABY. JUST WIN.

 

[jerzeycane]

To me, not landing a super blue chip local kid at a need spot is a failure. Sorry, I don't care what the circumstances are. That is a kid you need to get to win in this program. Same if we lose Collins. If Texas doesn't land the top kids in their area, it's considered a failure. Same for OSU, etc.

I don't understand why people get so defensive. I love Golden Al, but that doesn't mean his success rate is 100% or that he doesn't lose recruiting wars. I understand that he dispenses the maximum effort, but we're not giving out rewards for effort, right? When the University of Miami doesn't land a top-10 national prospect at a local school, it's a failure barring exceptional circumstances. It's an absolute rule, imo.

Who the **** said I'm whining? You're the excuse-maker, not me.

What I'm saying is simple: don't automatically attribute a recruit's decision to go elsewhere as the result of illicit payments, when we have no **** clue and simply because it's a nice, convenient excuse.

I love Golden, but that doesn't mean I blindfold myself to his recruiting failures, only to remove the blindfold and blow him for his successes.

Recruiting failures? I'm trusting Al is doing better than 95% of coaches in America could do in the current situation we are in. Numerous recruiting experts have said Golden is a top 5 recruiter nationally. Just because he doesn't land a kid......doesn't make it a failure. If Thomas chooses to go else where Golden is going to be the last one I'll be blaming.

Can we win without Matthew Thomas?

 

[mapcane]

Without him specifically? Yes. Dumb question. Is it very likely that he'll make us a much better football team on defense when he's a soph and junior? Double yes. Would ND have gotten to the title game without Te'o? Would Bama have been as solid defensively without that junior CB who came out early? How big of an impact that Von Miller have in college? Does Jevod Clowney make a big impact on SC's D?

If Thomas is as good as advertised or in proportion to the amount of attention our staff pays to him in the recruiting process, then we're talking about a guy who adds wins to your W-L record. A guy with, to use a baseball stat, a very high Wins Above Replacement number.

Why is it that people always do this dumb ****? If he was coming, we'd be ******* having an orgy, popping bottles, etc., because the kid is that good. But when the kid doesn't want to come, people ask absurd questions like: is it possible for UM to win without a player? I mean, I ******* suppose. We some games last year without having Johnny Unitas as our QB or Ray Lewis back at LB. What's your point?

 

[weownfsu]

Without him specifically? Yes. Dumb question. Is it very likely that he'll make us a much better football team on defense when he's a soph and junior? Double yes. Would ND have gotten to the title game without Te'o? Would Bama have been as solid defensively without that junior CB who came out early? How big of an impact that Von Miller have in college? Does Jevod Clowney make a big impact on SC's D?

If Thomas is as good as advertised or in proportion to the amount of attention our staff pays to him in the recruiting process, then we're talking about a guy who adds wins to your W-L record. A guy with, to use a baseball stat, a very high Wins Above Replacement number.

Why is it that people always do this dumb ****? If he was coming, we'd be ****ing having an orgy, popping bottles, etc., because the kid is that good. But when the kid doesn't want to come, people ask absurd questions like: is it possible for UM to win without a player? I mean, I ****ing suppose. We some games last year without having Johnny Unitas as our QB or Ray Lewis back at LB. What's your point?

Yep.

 

[Bird4um]

What golden did may change that. Commit or c ya.

 

[jerzeycane]

Without him specifically? Yes. Dumb question. Is it very likely that he'll make us a much better football team on defense when he's a soph and junior? Double yes. Would ND have gotten to the title game without Te'o? Would Bama have been as solid defensively without that junior CB who came out early? How big of an impact that Von Miller have in college? Does Jevod Clowney make a big impact on SC's D?

If Thomas is as good as advertised or in proportion to the amount of attention our staff pays to him in the recruiting process, then we're talking about a guy who adds wins to your W-L record. A guy with, to use a baseball stat, a very high Wins Above Replacement number.

Why is it that people always do this dumb ****? If he was coming, we'd be ****ing having an orgy, popping bottles, etc., because the kid is that good. But when the kid doesn't want to come, people ask absurd questions like: is it possible for UM to win without a player? I mean, I ****ing suppose. We some games last year without having Johnny Unitas as our QB or Ray Lewis back at LB. What's your point?

The point is that he's a piece. Purely. Don't act like we don't already have guys who can be difference makers and we haven't recruited difference makers in this class. The point, sir, is that as I said before, for some reason you attached the success of the program to Matthew Thomas. Why don't you attach that same level of importance to Alquadin Muhammad? Will you attach the same level of importance to Artie Burns? How about Alex Collins should come?

To use your own analogy to baseball, your *****ing is akin to Yankee fans that ***** about not having an All-Star at every position. Would it be really ******* great to have Josh Hamilton and Cliff Lee? Sure. Is it necessary to win a championship? No and the discussion should pretty much end there.

It was a simple question that warranted a simple answer. **** in your pampers if you want to. You want to make it either a phenomenal success or an epic failure when it is neither. Of course Matthew Thomas and his once in a decade type skill set would help, but it's not like they can't win a National Championship without him and it's not like they haven't recruited other impact players at different positions.

And by the way, Von Miller was a consensus 4 star recruit, not the superman that you would have us believe he was coming out of high school. He was roughly the same size as Gabe Terry and with that being said, maybe you should be happy about guys like Alex Figeuroa who don't get the same billing as Matthew Thomas, but have a world of potential and guess what...they want to play football at the University of Miami

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Without him specifically? Yes. Dumb question. Is it very likely that he'll make us a much better football team on defense when he's a soph and junior? Double yes. Would ND have gotten to the title game without Te'o? Would Bama have been as solid defensively without that junior CB who came out early? How big of an impact that Von Miller have in college? Does Jevod Clowney make a big impact on SC's D?

If Thomas is as good as advertised or in proportion to the amount of attention our staff pays to him in the recruiting process, then we're talking about a guy who adds wins to your W-L record. A guy with, to use a baseball stat, a very high Wins Above Replacement number.

Why is it that people always do this dumb ****? If he was coming, we'd be ****ing having an orgy, popping bottles, etc., because the kid is that good. But when the kid doesn't want to come, people ask absurd questions like: is it possible for UM to win without a player? I mean, I ****ing suppose. We some games last year without having Johnny Unitas as our QB or Ray Lewis back at LB. What's your point?

That's great, and it would ahve been great if we had Andrew Luck, and Julio Jones, and Bama's OL from this year on our team in the last few years, but we didnt. This kid was never ours. He doesnt want to be here, so F8ck him, life will go on, and we will have our studs. I remember the SAME SH*T when DJ Williams got here, "he's goign to be our best LB the minute he sets foot on campus". He couldnt even crack the rotation.

No doubt this kid is a baller with tremendous potential, and yes, its very likely he will be a good player, but there are many other kids who can and will develop into good players. All these guys knocking Grace, man give me a F8cking break... guys never learn. Same sh8t they said about Vilma. 3 star kid, "Who's this kid?" "WTF"? World was coming to an end. Dude became a F*cking BEAST that anchored some of our best defences. No one knew who the f8ck Dan Morgan was before he got here either. Recruiting is as much about seeing the UPSIDE, as what a kid is doign NOW. There are kids who develop earlier, and blow up and dominate high school kids, but once they lose that advantage, they are just average at the next level.

YOU of all people should know this after all these years of this bullsh*t. Have any of you ever asked yourself why it is that Texas always underachieves despite getting all these super stud "cant miss" blue chippers every year???