Who gets the 2 extra scollies that opened up???

Guys, don't be surprised if UM self-imposes reductions for the 2013 class. The #1 goal is to put this behind us ASAP and build back up. NOT having thr 2013 class absorb some reductions would be somewhat catastrophic as it would just prolong us playing with a hand behind our backs for another year. The U wants to pay the price ASAP. Its why its so important for us to get 6 wins and be able to drop the bowl. If we could somehow win the Coastal and drop the ACCCG too, it could go a long, long way towards getting our spanking done sooner, without affecting recruiting.

You don't have to win 6 and then drop the bowl. You can do it now and be fine.

I doubt we self impose a second game, I believe we would be the first school to ever do that.

If we beat VT, Duke and UVA...or somehow get a chance to get to the ACC Champ, I wouldn't entertain this self imposed postseason ban at all.

No, no.. the whole goal is to try to mitigate scholarship losses... you are trying to drop as many post-season games voluntarily in advance so that when the NCAA finally DOES drop the hammer, you've already self-imposed a lot on yourself, which may lead them to only penalize you a few scholarships.

Scholarships are everything.

While I agree. This is the NCAA not the Florida Penal Code. Does the NCAA allow you to plea bargain or negotiate punishment? We did the bowl ban in year one as a sign of good faith, I don't believe giving another one allows you to have less scholarships given up.

What do I know though?

Maybe the NCAA has a scale

X Scholarships Loss = Y Years of Bowl Ban

Z Years of Probation = W in Fines

I don't know honestly but if somehow we win and have the opportunity to get to the ACC Champ game, I think we should go.

There is no concrete rule or anything, but there is a sum total of punishment, and if UM gives up 2-3 post-season games, and the revenue that comes with them, you can be sure that the committee will take that into account when they decide whether or not to accept our self-imposed punishment or add on.

As you said, maybe there is a scale, maybe there isn't, but the most important thing, the only important thing really, is recruiting. And giving up post season games this year might not only help us keep our scholarship penalties down, but it doesn't affect recruiting as the kids in the 2013 class won't be missing these games. Recruiting is everything right now. Not back-dooring a 6-6 team into a 2nd loss to FSU.
 
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Mr. Bomb. Do you realize that if we get to the ACC Champ game and then abruptly decide to not play it royally F#*@s the ACC? You can't do that. If you were going to forego the postseason or the ACC Champ game for that matter it should've been done prior to now. You don't just all of a sudden say you're going to forego the bowl at the last minute. The only reason that we did that last year is because the allegations came down on us so quickly. Also we are definitely not going to be withholding any schollies in this class...thats just dumb. We will load up on as many players as we can now.

There is a SLIGHT possibility of us foregoing the bowl game (I seriously doubt it will happen), but for us to just bend over the ACC at the last minute and say "Hey ACC and everyone else...we aren't going to play in your championship game next week!! Georgia Tech, VT, Duke you guys figure out...if you're free that weekend I guess you can go!!" Thats absolutely insane and it doesn't work that way. If we self-imposed before the season at least the ACC could have a plan in place, but now we would just be ******** them over. Also you do realize that there have never been 3 postseason game bans as punishment EVER right?! So why would we forego last year's bowl, this ACC Champ game, and the bowl game?

Another reason waiting to become bowl eligible before deciding to forego it is this...what if we don't reach eligibility? Then we can't declare ourselves out of it. If we went ahead and declared before the season started then we would at least get credit for saying we would be foregoing ahead of time.

Also you say it doesn't affect recruiting if we forego the bowl this season, but it actually DOES. We will have basically lied to all the freshmen this year if we self-impose a bowl ban this season. This kinda **** gets back to the recruits.

Bottomline is if we make it the ACC Championship game we are playing in it. The only thing that I think we would do is take the $$ somewhere as punishment. I seriously bet we are playing in it though.
 
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Mr. Bomb. Do you realize that if we get to the ACC Champ game and then abruptly decide to not play it royally F#*@s the ACC? You can't do that. If you were going to forego the postseason or the ACC Champ game for that matter it should've been done prior to now. You don't just all of a sudden say you're going to forego the bowl at the last minute. The only reason that we did that last year is because the allegations came down on us so quickly. Also we are definitely not going to be withholding any schollies in this class...thats just dumb. We will load up on as many players as we can now.

There is a SLIGHT possibility of us foregoing the bowl game (I seriously doubt it will happen), but for us to just bend over the ACC at the last minute and say "Hey ACC and everyone else...we aren't going to play in your championship game next week!! Georgia Tech, VT, Duke you guys figure out...if you're free that weekend I guess you can go!!" Thats absolutely insane and it doesn't work that way. If we self-imposed before the season at least the ACC could have a plan in place, but now we would just be ******** them over. Also you do realize that there have never been 3 postseason game bans as punishment EVER right?! So why would we forego last year's bowl, this ACC Champ game, and the bowl game?

Another reason waiting to become bowl eligible before deciding to forego it is this...what if we don't reach eligibility? Then we can't declare ourselves out of it. If we went ahead and declared before the season started then we would at least get credit for saying we would be foregoing ahead of time.

Also you say it doesn't affect recruiting if we forego the bowl this season, but it actually DOES. We will have basically lied to all the freshmen this year if we self-impose a bowl ban this season. This kinda **** gets back to the recruits.

Bottomline is if we make it the ACC Championship game we are playing in it. The only thing that I think we would do is take the $$ somewhere as punishment. I seriously bet we are playing in it though.

If we have a plan to drop the ACCCG, you can be assured the conference knows about it already. There is no reason to announce anything until we actually qualify. It would be no different than if USC or OSU "won" their divisions this year. They are on probation, cannot advance, and the next team behind them goes in.

As for your second point, it makes no sense. You cannot forgo something you don't have. And until we are qualified for a bowl, we can't announce we are giving it up. We'd look like idiots if we don't qualify for one. This one actually isn't debatable, as its exactly how we handled it last year.
 
I don't understand how we would lose scholarships for the 2013 class if they havent made a ruling yet and apparently won't do so until after the season.

Because we are going to self-impose penalties for ourselves ahead of the NCAA ruling, and we want to get the penalties behind us. Then you hope the NCAA agrees with what you penalized yourself!
 
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We need to take our medicine durring these dog crap years. Our goal should be having most of this ncaa stuff behind us by the new 2014 playoff format.
 
If we make the ACCCG, we will not self impose. Maybe the bowl game if we lose the CG. If we were to go and win the ACC, they aren't going to want to give that Bowl to the runner up either.
 
Mr. Bomb. Do you realize that if we get to the ACC Champ game and then abruptly decide to not play it royally F#*@s the ACC? You can't do that. If you were going to forego the postseason or the ACC Champ game for that matter it should've been done prior to now. You don't just all of a sudden say you're going to forego the bowl at the last minute. The only reason that we did that last year is because the allegations came down on us so quickly. Also we are definitely not going to be withholding any schollies in this class...thats just dumb. We will load up on as many players as we can now.

There is a SLIGHT possibility of us foregoing the bowl game (I seriously doubt it will happen), but for us to just bend over the ACC at the last minute and say "Hey ACC and everyone else...we aren't going to play in your championship game next week!! Georgia Tech, VT, Duke you guys figure out...if you're free that weekend I guess you can go!!" Thats absolutely insane and it doesn't work that way. If we self-imposed before the season at least the ACC could have a plan in place, but now we would just be ******** them over. Also you do realize that there have never been 3 postseason game bans as punishment EVER right?! So why would we forego last year's bowl, this ACC Champ game, and the bowl game?

Another reason waiting to become bowl eligible before deciding to forego it is this...what if we don't reach eligibility? Then we can't declare ourselves out of it. If we went ahead and declared before the season started then we would at least get credit for saying we would be foregoing ahead of time.

Also you say it doesn't affect recruiting if we forego the bowl this season, but it actually DOES. We will have basically lied to all the freshmen this year if we self-impose a bowl ban this season. This kinda **** gets back to the recruits.

Bottomline is if we make it the ACC Championship game we are playing in it. The only thing that I think we would do is take the $$ somewhere as punishment. I seriously bet we are playing in it though.

There's a lot of things I feel you said wrong and I just feel your whole argument and logic is wrong, but the one thing I want to know is how do YOU know anything that coaches have told their players?
 
Mr. Bomb. Do you realize that if we get to the ACC Champ game and then abruptly decide to not play it royally F#*@s the ACC? You can't do that. If you were going to forego the postseason or the ACC Champ game for that matter it should've been done prior to now. You don't just all of a sudden say you're going to forego the bowl at the last minute. The only reason that we did that last year is because the allegations came down on us so quickly. Also we are definitely not going to be withholding any schollies in this class...thats just dumb. We will load up on as many players as we can now.

There is a SLIGHT possibility of us foregoing the bowl game (I seriously doubt it will happen), but for us to just bend over the ACC at the last minute and say "Hey ACC and everyone else...we aren't going to play in your championship game next week!! Georgia Tech, VT, Duke you guys figure out...if you're free that weekend I guess you can go!!" Thats absolutely insane and it doesn't work that way. If we self-imposed before the season at least the ACC could have a plan in place, but now we would just be ******** them over. Also you do realize that there have never been 3 postseason game bans as punishment EVER right?! So why would we forego last year's bowl, this ACC Champ game, and the bowl game?

Another reason waiting to become bowl eligible before deciding to forego it is this...what if we don't reach eligibility? Then we can't declare ourselves out of it. If we went ahead and declared before the season started then we would at least get credit for saying we would be foregoing ahead of time.

Also you say it doesn't affect recruiting if we forego the bowl this season, but it actually DOES. We will have basically lied to all the freshmen this year if we self-impose a bowl ban this season. This kinda **** gets back to the recruits.

Bottomline is if we make it the ACC Championship game we are playing in it. The only thing that I think we would do is take the $$ somewhere as punishment. I seriously bet we are playing in it though.

If we have a plan to drop the ACCCG, you can be assured the conference knows about it already. There is no reason to announce anything until we actually qualify. It would be no different than if USC or OSU "won" their divisions this year. They are on probation, cannot advance, and the next team behind them goes in.

As for your second point, it makes no sense. You cannot forgo something you don't have. And until we are qualified for a bowl, we can't announce we are giving it up. We'd look like idiots if we don't qualify for one. This one actually isn't debatable, as its exactly how we handled it last year.

^
 
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Pre-shrinking our roster AHEAD of schollie reductions is absolutely the most RETARDED, IDIOTIC thing you could do. Someone who does this obviously has no idea how to do basic ***king math.

Taking only 16 kids or whatever for 2013 should only be done if the sanctions apply to the 2013 class. If they apply later, then Golden, if he isnt a brain dead ******, needs to FRONTLOAD THIS ROSTER WITH AS MUCH YOUTH AND TALENT as possible by jettisoning existing JAGs and overloading the 2013 class.
 
Mr. Bomb. Do you realize that if we get to the ACC Champ game and then abruptly decide to not play it royally F#*@s the ACC? You can't do that. If you were going to forego the postseason or the ACC Champ game for that matter it should've been done prior to now. You don't just all of a sudden say you're going to forego the bowl at the last minute. The only reason that we did that last year is because the allegations came down on us so quickly. Also we are definitely not going to be withholding any schollies in this class...thats just dumb. We will load up on as many players as we can now.

There is a SLIGHT possibility of us foregoing the bowl game (I seriously doubt it will happen), but for us to just bend over the ACC at the last minute and say "Hey ACC and everyone else...we aren't going to play in your championship game next week!! Georgia Tech, VT, Duke you guys figure out...if you're free that weekend I guess you can go!!" Thats absolutely insane and it doesn't work that way. If we self-imposed before the season at least the ACC could have a plan in place, but now we would just be ******** them over. Also you do realize that there have never been 3 postseason game bans as punishment EVER right?! So why would we forego last year's bowl, this ACC Champ game, and the bowl game?

Another reason waiting to become bowl eligible before deciding to forego it is this...what if we don't reach eligibility? Then we can't declare ourselves out of it. If we went ahead and declared before the season started then we would at least get credit for saying we would be foregoing ahead of time.

Also you say it doesn't affect recruiting if we forego the bowl this season, but it actually DOES. We will have basically lied to all the freshmen this year if we self-impose a bowl ban this season. This kinda **** gets back to the recruits.

Bottomline is if we make it the ACC Championship game we are playing in it. The only thing that I think we would do is take the $$ somewhere as punishment. I seriously bet we are playing in it though.

If we have a plan to drop the ACCCG, you can be assured the conference knows about it already. There is no reason to announce anything until we actually qualify. It would be no different than if USC or OSU "won" their divisions this year. They are on probation, cannot advance, and the next team behind them goes in.

As for your second point, it makes no sense. You cannot forgo something you don't have. And until we are qualified for a bowl, we can't announce we are giving it up. We'd look like idiots if we don't qualify for one. This one actually isn't debatable, as its exactly how we handled it last year.

Texas Tech did exactly what you're saying we can't do. They were 4-4 and self-imposed a ban in 1997. So they weren't guaranteed bowl eligibility and the NCAA accepted that as punishment. So Miami doesn't have to wait until they become bowl eligible if they don't want to. If they were gonna self-impose you do it before the year. What if the team finishes 1-3? You just lost your chance to bend over for the NCAA again.

There is plenty of reason to announce beforehand. There is a human element involved as well. You've already cut the coaches and players knees out from under them once last year. You plan on doing that again? You tell Mike James he can't play in the title game. The one thing he wanted to do before he graduated.

I'm willing to bet the ACC wouldn't stand for it either and there isn't a pre-arranged agreement.. Everyone just saw Miami beat Duke on the final day of the ACC regular season in your scenario. Immediately after the game Miami is gonna tell the country, "nah, we're not gonna play"? No chance. "So Duke players we know you think you just lost your chance to play for the title, well we've got a surprise for you." Thats a nightmare no one wants to explain.
 
Pre-shrinking our roster AHEAD of schollie reductions is absolutely the most RETARDED, IDIOTIC thing you could do. Someone who does this obviously has no idea how to do basic ***king math.

Taking only 16 kids or whatever for 2013 should only be done if the sanctions apply to the 2013 class. If they apply later, then Golden, if he isnt a brain dead ******, needs to FRONTLOAD THIS ROSTER WITH AS MUCH YOUTH AND TALENT as possible by jettisoning existing JAGs and overloading the 2013 class.

Don't you feel like that is exactly what he is doing?
 
Pre-shrinking our roster AHEAD of schollie reductions is absolutely the most RETARDED, IDIOTIC thing you could do. Someone who does this obviously has no idea how to do basic ***king math.

Taking only 16 kids or whatever for 2013 should only be done if the sanctions apply to the 2013 class. If they apply later, then Golden, if he isnt a brain dead ******, needs to FRONTLOAD THIS ROSTER WITH AS MUCH YOUTH AND TALENT as possible by jettisoning existing JAGs and overloading the 2013 class.

Don't you feel like that is exactly what he is doing?

I don't know. I see him running off JAGs, which is good. However, i dont see any news from our insiders here about Golden actually offering kids to fill up our open spots. A few weeks ago, i heard him still sticking to his story about a 16man class for 2013. I am HOPING he is just being diplomatic and tactful by not publicly revealing his plan to jettison the JAGs but i just have not seen anything yet to make me believe that he is trying for the 21-22 man class we SHOULD be shooting for.
 
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Pre-shrinking our roster AHEAD of schollie reductions is absolutely the most RETARDED, IDIOTIC thing you could do. Someone who does this obviously has no idea how to do basic ***king math.

Taking only 16 kids or whatever for 2013 should only be done if the sanctions apply to the 2013 class. If they apply later, then Golden, if he isnt a brain dead ******, needs to FRONTLOAD THIS ROSTER WITH AS MUCH YOUTH AND TALENT as possible by jettisoning existing JAGs and overloading the 2013 class.

Don't you feel like that is exactly what he is doing?

I don't know. I see him running off JAGs, which is good. However, i dont see any news from our insiders here about Golden actually offering kids to fill up our open spots. A few weeks ago, i heard him still sticking to his story about a 16man class for 2013. I am HOPING he is just being diplomatic and tactful by not publicly revealing his plan to jettison the JAGs but i just have not seen anything yet to make me believe that he is trying for the 21-22 man class we SHOULD be shooting for.

It all comes down to how many JAGS he's going to run off, and when and how severe the NCAA cuts our total scholarship limit. Everything has sounded like Golden and Co. are cutting down to 80 kids on the roster for 2013 which tells me they think the NCCA will hit them for 2013. Without cutting any more kids we only have 17 schollies to give out if we plan on being at 85 slots next year. If we have to be at 80 we need to sign 5 fewer players, or more likely Golden will run 5 JAGs off. If we don't HAVE to be at 80 for 2013, then we need to sign one more kid above 17 for every guy that leaves the program early, and in that case it should be closer to a full class than they have led on. Like you are saying, probably around 22 kids. All the 16 man class talk has me thinking they expect 2013 to be the first year we are under probation, and that they expect our total limit to be 80 or lower.
 
I think you gotta load up this year.

If you're trimming down to 80, it better be to cram as many 13 and 14 kids in as possible.
 
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Mr. Bomb. Do you realize that if we get to the ACC Champ game and then abruptly decide to not play it royally F#*@s the ACC? You can't do that. If you were going to forego the postseason or the ACC Champ game for that matter it should've been done prior to now. You don't just all of a sudden say you're going to forego the bowl at the last minute. The only reason that we did that last year is because the allegations came down on us so quickly. Also we are definitely not going to be withholding any schollies in this class...thats just dumb. We will load up on as many players as we can now.

There is a SLIGHT possibility of us foregoing the bowl game (I seriously doubt it will happen), but for us to just bend over the ACC at the last minute and say "Hey ACC and everyone else...we aren't going to play in your championship game next week!! Georgia Tech, VT, Duke you guys figure out...if you're free that weekend I guess you can go!!" Thats absolutely insane and it doesn't work that way. If we self-imposed before the season at least the ACC could have a plan in place, but now we would just be ******** them over. Also you do realize that there have never been 3 postseason game bans as punishment EVER right?! So why would we forego last year's bowl, this ACC Champ game, and the bowl game?

Another reason waiting to become bowl eligible before deciding to forego it is this...what if we don't reach eligibility? Then we can't declare ourselves out of it. If we went ahead and declared before the season started then we would at least get credit for saying we would be foregoing ahead of time.

Also you say it doesn't affect recruiting if we forego the bowl this season, but it actually DOES. We will have basically lied to all the freshmen this year if we self-impose a bowl ban this season. This kinda **** gets back to the recruits.

Bottomline is if we make it the ACC Championship game we are playing in it. The only thing that I think we would do is take the $$ somewhere as punishment. I seriously bet we are playing in it though.

If we have a plan to drop the ACCCG, you can be assured the conference knows about it already. There is no reason to announce anything until we actually qualify. It would be no different than if USC or OSU "won" their divisions this year. They are on probation, cannot advance, and the next team behind them goes in.

As for your second point, it makes no sense. You cannot forgo something you don't have. And until we are qualified for a bowl, we can't announce we are giving it up. We'd look like idiots if we don't qualify for one. This one actually isn't debatable, as its exactly how we handled it last year.

Texas Tech did exactly what you're saying we can't do. They were 4-4 and self-imposed a ban in 1997. So they weren't guaranteed bowl eligibility and the NCAA accepted that as punishment. So Miami doesn't have to wait until they become bowl eligible if they don't want to. If they were gonna self-impose you do it before the year. What if the team finishes 1-3? You just lost your chance to bend over for the NCAA again.

There is plenty of reason to announce beforehand. There is a human element involved as well. You've already cut the coaches and players knees out from under them once last year. You plan on doing that again? You tell Mike James he can't play in the title game. The one thing he wanted to do before he graduated.

I'm willing to bet the ACC wouldn't stand for it either and there isn't a pre-arranged agreement.. Everyone just saw Miami beat Duke on the final day of the ACC regular season in your scenario. Immediately after the game Miami is gonna tell the country, "nah, we're not gonna play"? No chance. "So Duke players we know you think you just lost your chance to play for the title, well we've got a surprise for you." Thats a nightmare no one wants to explain.

I just logged back on and was going to respond but you said it all for me. Preciate it bro. Bomb please respond to this. There is precedence for it, and its what we would've done. Bomb it made you sound even worse when you tried to say that you can't forego something that you don't have. So by your logic, Penn State doesn't get credit for a bowl ban this year if they dont become eligible? I mean you can't declare yourself ineligible for something you don't have right? Fin you made every point for me already.
 
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Mr. Bomb. Do you realize that if we get to the ACC Champ game and then abruptly decide to not play it royally F#*@s the ACC? You can't do that. If you were going to forego the postseason or the ACC Champ game for that matter it should've been done prior to now. You don't just all of a sudden say you're going to forego the bowl at the last minute. The only reason that we did that last year is because the allegations came down on us so quickly. Also we are definitely not going to be withholding any schollies in this class...thats just dumb. We will load up on as many players as we can now.

There is a SLIGHT possibility of us foregoing the bowl game (I seriously doubt it will happen), but for us to just bend over the ACC at the last minute and say "Hey ACC and everyone else...we aren't going to play in your championship game next week!! Georgia Tech, VT, Duke you guys figure out...if you're free that weekend I guess you can go!!" Thats absolutely insane and it doesn't work that way. If we self-imposed before the season at least the ACC could have a plan in place, but now we would just be ******** them over. Also you do realize that there have never been 3 postseason game bans as punishment EVER right?! So why would we forego last year's bowl, this ACC Champ game, and the bowl game?

Another reason waiting to become bowl eligible before deciding to forego it is this...what if we don't reach eligibility? Then we can't declare ourselves out of it. If we went ahead and declared before the season started then we would at least get credit for saying we would be foregoing ahead of time.

Also you say it doesn't affect recruiting if we forego the bowl this season, but it actually DOES. We will have basically lied to all the freshmen this year if we self-impose a bowl ban this season. This kinda **** gets back to the recruits.

Bottomline is if we make it the ACC Championship game we are playing in it. The only thing that I think we would do is take the $$ somewhere as punishment. I seriously bet we are playing in it though.

There's a lot of things I feel you said wrong and I just feel your whole argument and logic is wrong, but the one thing I want to know is how do YOU know anything that coaches have told their players?

You aren't the brightest cat on this board are ya? Its been very well documented that Golden had told the recruits from the last class that the worst is behind us. I'm going on printed facts here...ones that I shouldn't have to go and find to prove to some thick-skulled kid on this site.
 
We haven't received the letter of notification of allegations from the NCAA yet, and the judgment on sanctions won't come for several months after that, so it's a virtual certainty that we won't know the penalties until after this class signs. So I fully expect that Golden loads up on commits on LOI day. As for how many JAGs he "runs off" tell me one he has done that to? Ray Ray, V Davis, J Johnson and Cain, they all self-selected out. I'm sure there are at least 4-5 more such kids on roster, so to me a class of 20+ seems right. And I am confident the staff already knows who they're looking to pick up.
 
We haven't received the letter of notification of allegations from the NCAA yet, and the judgment on sanctions won't come for several months after that, so it's a virtual certainty that we won't know the penalties until after this class signs. So I fully expect that Golden loads up on commits on LOI day. As for how many JAGs he "runs off" tell me one he has done that to? Ray Ray, V Davis, J Johnson and Cain, they all self-selected out. I'm sure there are at least 4-5 more such kids on roster, so to me a class of 20+ seems right. And I am confident the staff already knows who they're looking to pick up.

This...

Its absolutely laughable to deduct that we will hold back schollies in this class. We will load up as much as we can now...just like USC. Actually pretty much everything Bomb said we will be doing is completely incorrect and borderline crazy.
 
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