What if....

[rok]

The group is markedly worse because they lost Mike James.

I might take OT + Gus Bus over one Mike James.

I really like Gus but I would take Mike James in that deal.

You could very well end up being right, but there's only one ball and noone in my untrained eye stacks up to MJ.

James was a better leader and teammate than any of the guys on the roster, but he wasn't a great RB. I'll take Gus Bus and even a healthy Ed Clements over James because I think both bring more skill to the table.

RB is one of those positions where you either have it or you don't for the most part. You can't really teach that twitch and vision and toughness that is necessary to be really good. We'll pretty much know right away if Gus Bus is the real deal or not. Clements was just as good as James before he got hurt and was actually taking James' reps at the end of 2011.

I agree w/ most of ur statement except the highlighted... there are a number of examples at UM where a running back hasnt done much but has turned into an impact player his Senior Year....

now I dont think Gus is going to fall in that category but i'm just sayin even if either of our young rbs dont look like much right now, it doesnt mean that they wont eventually be able to make an impact in the end.

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

Eduardo Clements had Lamar Miller, Storm Johnson, and Mike James in front of him throughout his career..... you say he has done nothing as if he was expected to carry the load and failed at it.

He is a Senior this year and "Senioritis" has turned many not so good looking players into impact players.

When OT got the opportunity to assert himself in 2011 he did a pretty good job as a 3rd down back. Perhaps that can be his niche this year and a way to get Duke some rest.

 

[The Franchise]

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

What had James done prior to last season? Most UM fans thought he was a bum. Now, we love him because of his tremendous leadership and a few clutch plays. But he's slowly morphing into something that he wasn't while he was here--a high quality back.

Clements had a neck injury last year, so I won't count last year against him.

James did have 719 yards rushing and 241 yards receiving going into his senior season. Not exactly a superstar, but those numbers show he was a solid contributor.

You just proved my point with those numbers. They were pedestrian at best. Just because the guys on the roster now haven't got enough touches to put up pedestrian numbers like that doesn't mean that they can't match or exceed those numbers.

 

[The Franchise]

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

What had James done prior to last season? Most UM fans thought he was a bum. Now, we love him because of his tremendous leadership and a few clutch plays. But he's slowly morphing into something that he wasn't while he was here--a high quality back.

Clements had a neck injury last year, so I won't count last year against him.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Mike James' soph campaign was solid. He had 398 yards on 70 carries and 13 catches. Those are more touches, as a Soph, than Clements has earned his entire career here. What gives me some hope is that Clements' yards per carry numbers (albeit much smaller in sample size) are more consistent than Mike James'.

James was a decent player. Nothing more and nothing less. I just don't want to see him built into something he wasn't. I'm exceedingly confident that the backup RBs we have on the roster today can match or exceed what James brought to the table as a player. As a leader and a teammate? No way.

You remember Clements taking James' reps as a between the tackles runner as 2011 progressed. He took those reps because he was more effective at that job. Clements is also an exceptional receiver.

 

[LuCane]

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

What had James done prior to last season? Most UM fans thought he was a bum. Now, we love him because of his tremendous leadership and a few clutch plays. But he's slowly morphing into something that he wasn't while he was here--a high quality back.

Clements had a neck injury last year, so I won't count last year against him.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Mike James' soph campaign was solid. He had 398 yards on 70 carries and 13 catches. Those are more touches, as a Soph, than Clements has earned his entire career here. What gives me some hope is that Clements' yards per carry numbers (albeit much smaller in sample size) are more consistent than Mike James'.

James was a decent player. Nothing more and nothing less. I just don't want to see him built into something he wasn't. I'm exceedingly confident that the backup RBs we have on the roster today can match or exceed what James brought to the table as a player. As a leader and a teammate? No way.

You remember Clements taking James' reps as a between the tackles runner as 2011 progressed. He took those reps because he was more effective at that job. Clements is also an exceptional receiver.

Almost anyone was more effective than James at the time he had turf toe. I agree he may be growing (in fans' eyes) into something he wasn't. I just don't think we can swing too far in the other direction, either. He was serviceable and I hope one of these other dudes becomes serviceable.

 

[The Franchise]

The group is markedly worse because they lost Mike James.

I might take OT + Gus Bus over one Mike James.

I really like Gus but I would take Mike James in that deal.

You could very well end up being right, but there's only one ball and noone in my untrained eye stacks up to MJ.

James was a better leader and teammate than any of the guys on the roster, but he wasn't a great RB. I'll take Gus Bus and even a healthy Ed Clements over James because I think both bring more skill to the table.

RB is one of those positions where you either have it or you don't for the most part. You can't really teach that twitch and vision and toughness that is necessary to be really good. We'll pretty much know right away if Gus Bus is the real deal or not. Clements was just as good as James before he got hurt and was actually taking James' reps at the end of 2011.

I agree w/ most of ur statement except the highlighted... there are a number of examples at UM where a running back hasnt done much but has turned into an impact player his Senior Year....

now I dont think Gus is going to fall in that category but i'm just sayin even if either of our young rbs dont look like much right now, it doesnt mean that they wont eventually be able to make an impact in the end.

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

Eduardo Clements had Lamar Miller, Storm Johnson, and Mike James in front of him throughout his career..... you say he has done nothing as if he was expected to carry the load and failed at it.

He is a Senior this year and "Senioritis" has turned many not so good looking players into impact players.

Fair enough. But if you wouldn't mind, please list the "number of examples" of RBs at UM who showed no signs of life or ability for 3 years but turned it around to have impact senior seasons. I can't remember any, but I'm open to be schooled.

 

[sowba]

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

What had James done prior to last season? Most UM fans thought he was a bum. Now, we love him because of his tremendous leadership and a few clutch plays. But he's slowly morphing into something that he wasn't while he was here--a high quality back.

Clements had a neck injury last year, so I won't count last year against him.

James did have 719 yards rushing and 241 yards receiving going into his senior season. Not exactly a superstar, but those numbers show he was a solid contributor.

Mike James also got those yards wiping off the ground for Lamar "Miller Time" Miller-Time and being a generally reliable back up bruiser. Clements is not proven to be a reliable back up, and is not a bruiser. I'm an OT fan because of a few nice looking runs over the past 8 years he's been a back up, but he's not going to replace the Big Unit Randy Johnson to even 20% of full charge. Crawford retweets too much undue twitter praise for me to take him seriously right now. If Duke goes down, its pass-Mo Hagens 4 yard dive-pass and repeat till score or punt.

Maybe in 2011 you could say he was mopping up for Lamar, but not so much in 2010. Their numbers were pretty comparable for that season

And James was never a bruiser. I know he got the "thunder" part of thunder & lightning Miller/James duo, but he was never a move the pile kind of guy. To be honest Duke as a freshmen was better at moving a pile than James was as a senior.

I'll grant you 2010. It was smash and dash, fwiw, not thunder and lightning. James wasn't I reckon a "pile-moving bruiser," but he was most in his element running between the tackles; I don't think I ever half-stood on an outside toss to him. Point is, I hope our backup RBs are really good this year. That's all

 

[zone3cane]

Fair enough. But if you wouldn't mind, please list the "number of examples" of RBs at UM who showed no signs of life or ability for 3 years but turned it around to have impact senior seasons. I can't remember any, but I'm open to be schooled.

Jarred Payton

Damien Berry

Mike James

are 3 that comes to mind.... now Mike James has shown flashes before his senior year but he turned into a completely different RB, w/ his speed and strength, his last season.

 

[The Franchise]

Here's what I hope for from this group:

Clements needs to give us about 350 yards on 80 carries this year.
Hagens might be able to give us around 110 yards on 35 carries this year.
Gus Bus needs to get it together and give us around 300 yards on 60 carries this year.
Dallas Crawford needs to play spot situations and give us around 360 yards 80 carries this year.

Total = 255 carries for 1,120 (4.4 ypc) from RBs not named Duke and including a good amount of mop-up duty.

Add in what I've projected from Duke, and that represents a 30% increase in rush attempts over last year's identity.

A 30% increase in rush attempts is uncalled for. We have the qb, the receivers, and OL to have a dynamite passing game. We don't have a great stable of running backs. I do hope we see more of an effort to run the ball but the personnel we have doesn't demand it.

I'd like to see more emphasis on between the tackles running and a de-emphasis of Fish's finesse running game, but I'm with you in not wanting to see us increase our rush attempts by 30%. We've got too many weapons in the passing game to become a rush-heavy club.

 

[The Franchise]

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

What had James done prior to last season? Most UM fans thought he was a bum. Now, we love him because of his tremendous leadership and a few clutch plays. But he's slowly morphing into something that he wasn't while he was here--a high quality back.

Clements had a neck injury last year, so I won't count last year against him.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Mike James' soph campaign was solid. He had 398 yards on 70 carries and 13 catches. Those are more touches, as a Soph, than Clements has earned his entire career here. What gives me some hope is that Clements' yards per carry numbers (albeit much smaller in sample size) are more consistent than Mike James'.

James was a decent player. Nothing more and nothing less. I just don't want to see him built into something he wasn't. I'm exceedingly confident that the backup RBs we have on the roster today can match or exceed what James brought to the table as a player. As a leader and a teammate? No way.

You remember Clements taking James' reps as a between the tackles runner as 2011 progressed. He took those reps because he was more effective at that job. Clements is also an exceptional receiver.

Almost anyone was more effective than James at the time he had turf toe. I agree he may be growing (in fans' eyes) into something he wasn't. I just don't think we can swing too far in the other direction, either. He was serviceable and I hope one of these other dudes becomes serviceable.

He was definitely serviceable. Great description of him. I think Clements is at least serviceable, and Gus Bus has the potential to be much more than that. James had a sore toe, but even without the sore toe he was never a power back. He was a dancer in a bigger man's body.

 

[motorcitycane]

Here's what I hope for from this group:

Clements needs to give us about 350 yards on 80 carries this year.
Hagens might be able to give us around 110 yards on 35 carries this year.
Gus Bus needs to get it together and give us around 300 yards on 60 carries this year.
Dallas Crawford needs to play spot situations and give us around 360 yards 80 carries this year.

Total = 255 carries for 1,120 (4.4 ypc) from RBs not named Duke and including a good amount of mop-up duty.

Add in what I've projected from Duke, and that represents a 30% increase in rush attempts over last year's identity.

A 30% increase in rush attempts is uncalled for. We have the qb, the receivers, and OL to have a dynamite passing game. We don't have a great stable of running backs. I do hope we see more of an effort to run the ball but the personnel we have doesn't demand it.

I'd like to see more emphasis on between the tackles running and a de-emphasis of Fish's finesse running game, but I'm with you in not wanting to see us increase our rush attempts by 30%. We've got too many weapons in the passing game to become a rush-heavy club.

Yep play to our strengths! Hopefully a 60-40 or 65-35 pass-run ratio

 

[The Franchise]

Fair enough. But if you wouldn't mind, please list the "number of examples" of RBs at UM who showed no signs of life or ability for 3 years but turned it around to have impact senior seasons. I can't remember any, but I'm open to be schooled.

Jarred Payton

Damien Berry

Mike James

are 3 that comes to mind.... now Mike James has shown flashes before his senior year but he turned into a completely different RB, w/ his speed and strength, his last season.

Mike James was the same guy all career.

Berry was always a very good talent and many of us knew that. He was just in Shanntard's dog house for some reason.

Payton is a good example of a guy without much talent who hung in there and produced much better than anyone thought he would.

 

[bathtubgin]

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

What had James done prior to last season? Most UM fans thought he was a bum. Now, we love him because of his tremendous leadership and a few clutch plays. But he's slowly morphing into something that he wasn't while he was here--a high quality back.

Clements had a neck injury last year, so I won't count last year against him.

James did have 719 yards rushing and 241 yards receiving going into his senior season. Not exactly a superstar, but those numbers show he was a solid contributor.

You just proved my point with those numbers. They were pedestrian at best. Just because the guys on the roster now haven't got enough touches to put up pedestrian numbers like that doesn't mean that they can't match or exceed those numbers.

I don't disagree with that, but it did, at least, make him a somewhat known commodity. We knew we had a guy who was very capable of being a solid compliment back. We really haven't seen that kind of production from any of the guys backing up Duke right now. I'm not saying they aren't capable, but I just don't see them as having enough track record to feel at ease about the situation behind Duke.

 

[LuCane]

Here's what I hope for from this group:

Clements needs to give us about 350 yards on 80 carries this year.
Hagens might be able to give us around 110 yards on 35 carries this year.
Gus Bus needs to get it together and give us around 300 yards on 60 carries this year.
Dallas Crawford needs to play spot situations and give us around 360 yards 80 carries this year.

Total = 255 carries for 1,120 (4.4 ypc) from RBs not named Duke and including a good amount of mop-up duty.

Add in what I've projected from Duke, and that represents a 30% increase in rush attempts over last year's identity.

A 30% increase in rush attempts is uncalled for. We have the qb, the receivers, and OL to have a dynamite passing game. We don't have a great stable of running backs. I do hope we see more of an effort to run the ball but the personnel we have doesn't demand it.

I'd like to see more emphasis on between the tackles running and a de-emphasis of Fish's finesse running game, but I'm with you in not wanting to see us increase our rush attempts by 30%. We've got too many weapons in the passing game to become a rush-heavy club.

A 30% increase in rushing the ball would still be significantly below what...FSU did last year.

First of all, we didn't run enough plays. Secondly, we barely ran the ball.

 

[LuCane]

Here's what I hope for from this group:

Clements needs to give us about 350 yards on 80 carries this year.
Hagens might be able to give us around 110 yards on 35 carries this year.
Gus Bus needs to get it together and give us around 300 yards on 60 carries this year.
Dallas Crawford needs to play spot situations and give us around 360 yards 80 carries this year.

Total = 255 carries for 1,120 (4.4 ypc) from RBs not named Duke and including a good amount of mop-up duty.

Add in what I've projected from Duke, and that represents a 30% increase in rush attempts over last year's identity.

A 30% increase in rush attempts is uncalled for. We have the qb, the receivers, and OL to have a dynamite passing game. We don't have a great stable of running backs. I do hope we see more of an effort to run the ball but the personnel we have doesn't demand it.

I'd like to see more emphasis on between the tackles running and a de-emphasis of Fish's finesse running game, but I'm with you in not wanting to see us increase our rush attempts by 30%. We've got too many weapons in the passing game to become a rush-heavy club.

Rush-heavy? That'd probably bring us to a 55/45. I don't think people realize how little we ran the ball last year.

 

[zone3cane]

Fair enough. But if you wouldn't mind, please list the "number of examples" of RBs at UM who showed no signs of life or ability for 3 years but turned it around to have impact senior seasons. I can't remember any, but I'm open to be schooled.

Jarred Payton

Damien Berry

Mike James

are 3 that comes to mind.... now Mike James has shown flashes before his senior year but he turned into a completely different RB, w/ his speed and strength, his last season.

Mike James was the same guy all career.

Berry was always a very good talent and many of us knew that. He was just in Shanntard's dog house for some reason.

Payton is a good example of a guy without much talent who hung in there and produced much better than anyone thought he would.

we will just have to agree to disagree on that b/c Mike James was a completely different player his senior year....

he was more physical then he ever was and the biggest change was how much faster and more explosive he was. He worked on his speed the entire off season before and it showed in games.

Damien Berry was never considered to be a guy that was going to rush for almost a 1000 yards in any season and if he didnt get banged up he wouldve had a 1000 yard season.... his Senior year came out of nowhere.

Jarred Payton was a very solid work horse for the offense his Senior year.... he had almost just as memorable a performance at FSU in the rain as Sean Taylor did that year.

 

[bathtubgin]

We need to up the rush production. The "score a lot, score fast to protect our horrific defense" strategy didn't work all that well last season. I'd like to see our offense spend more time on the field this year, and our defense a whole lot more time off of it.

 

[DiegoCane]

Here's what I hope for from this group:

Clements needs to give us about 350 yards on 80 carries this year.
Hagens might be able to give us around 110 yards on 35 carries this year.
Gus Bus needs to get it together and give us around 300 yards on 60 carries this year.
Dallas Crawford needs to play spot situations and give us around 360 yards 80 carries this year.

Total = 255 carries for 1,120 (4.4 ypc) from RBs not named Duke and including a good amount of mop-up duty.

Add in what I've projected from Duke, and that represents a 30% increase in rush attempts over last year's identity.

A 30% increase in rush attempts is uncalled for. We have the qb, the receivers, and OL to have a dynamite passing game. We don't have a great stable of running backs. I do hope we see more of an effort to run the ball but the personnel we have doesn't demand it.

I'd like to see more emphasis on between the tackles running and a de-emphasis of Fish's finesse running game, but I'm with you in not wanting to see us increase our rush attempts by 30%. We've got too many weapons in the passing game to become a rush-heavy club.

A 30% increase in rushing the ball would still be significantly below what...FSU did last year.

First of all, we didn't run enough plays. Secondly, we barely ran the ball.

Good point Lu. We ran 818 plays last year which was good for 104th in the nation. We had 371 rushing attempts last year, good for 116th in that nation.

Now I think there were a few reasons:

1. our defense couldn't get off the field
2. we scored very quickly when we did score
3. we were 68th in the nation in 3rd down conversion

I expect overall plays and rushing attempts to increase. I actually expect Crawford to be the #2 with Gus and OT seeing carries as well, although I think they all end up with a similar amount of carries by years end. I'm pretty intrigue how Coley is going to use the RBs, how often we will see 2 back vs 1, etc. I would like to see some stuff with Duke and Crawford in the game together.

 

[LuCane]

Here's what I hope for from this group:

Clements needs to give us about 350 yards on 80 carries this year.
Hagens might be able to give us around 110 yards on 35 carries this year.
Gus Bus needs to get it together and give us around 300 yards on 60 carries this year.
Dallas Crawford needs to play spot situations and give us around 360 yards 80 carries this year.

Total = 255 carries for 1,120 (4.4 ypc) from RBs not named Duke and including a good amount of mop-up duty.

Add in what I've projected from Duke, and that represents a 30% increase in rush attempts over last year's identity.

A 30% increase in rush attempts is uncalled for. We have the qb, the receivers, and OL to have a dynamite passing game. We don't have a great stable of running backs. I do hope we see more of an effort to run the ball but the personnel we have doesn't demand it.

I'd like to see more emphasis on between the tackles running and a de-emphasis of Fish's finesse running game, but I'm with you in not wanting to see us increase our rush attempts by 30%. We've got too many weapons in the passing game to become a rush-heavy club.

A 30% increase in rushing the ball would still be significantly below what...FSU did last year.

First of all, we didn't run enough plays. Secondly, we barely ran the ball.

Good point Lu. We ran 818 plays last year which was good for 104th in the nation. We had 371 rushing attempts last year, good for 116th in that nation.

Now I think there were a few reasons:

1. our defense couldn't get off the field
2. we scored very quickly when we did score
3. we were 68th in the nation in 3rd down conversion

I expect overall plays and rushing attempts to increase. I actually expect Crawford to be the #2 with Gus and OT seeing carries as well, although I think they all end up with a similar amount of carries by years end. I'm pretty intrigue how Coley is going to use the RBs, how often we will see 2 back vs 1, etc. I would like to see some stuff with Duke and Crawford in the game together.

My guess is we're going to see a ******* **** ton of one back this year.

 

[zone3cane]

We need to up the rush production. The "score a lot, score fast to protect our horrific defense" strategy didn't work all that well last season. I'd like to see our offense spend more time on the field this year, and our defense a whole lot more time off of it.

Al Golden has already said that he did that last season b/c he felt that was the best strategy to win games..... to an extent he was right b/c Miami was only expected to win 3-4 games last year and ended up winning 7.

This year the pace is going to vary, the offensive production is expected to be improved on 3rd downs, to keep drives going, and in the redzone.

The defense is also expected to be much better so i dont see teams being able to keep them on the field for an extended period of time on EVERY offensive drive like last season.... even though we will still see this defense look like a work in progress at times as well.

 

[JHallCanes]

Clements has had 2.5 seasons to make his mark and has done next to nothing.

What had James done prior to last season? Most UM fans thought he was a bum. Now, we love him because of his tremendous leadership and a few clutch plays. But he's slowly morphing into something that he wasn't while he was here--a high quality back.

Clements had a neck injury last year, so I won't count last year against him.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Mike James' soph campaign was solid. He had 398 yards on 70 carries and 13 catches. Those are more touches, as a Soph, than Clements has earned his entire career here. What gives me some hope is that Clements' yards per carry numbers (albeit much smaller in sample size) are more consistent than Mike James'.

James was a decent player. Nothing more and nothing less. I just don't want to see him built into something he wasn't. I'm exceedingly confident that the backup RBs we have on the roster today can match or exceed what James brought to the table as a player. As a leader and a teammate? No way.

You remember Clements taking James' reps as a between the tackles runner as 2011 progressed. He took those reps because he was more effective at that job. Clements is also an exceptional receiver.

Almost anyone was more effective than James at the time he had turf toe. I agree he may be growing (in fans' eyes) into something he wasn't. I just don't think we can swing too far in the other direction, either. He was serviceable and I hope one of these other dudes becomes serviceable.

Pretty much this. Not a Herculean task by any stretch to replace him, just tough with an injury, a journeyman, and a freshman, to gauge what we have. One thing about MJ is you pretty much knew what you would get. Also not sure how much Coley's playbook will effect these guys, blitz pickups for the younger guys etc.

I'm sure I am splitting hairs but on a great "on paper" offense I suppose the Cane fan in me needs to find something to worry about.