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UVA signs a German QB

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RightSaidFred said:
It hasn’t been discredited at all. Where do you come up with this stuff?

That’s not how academia works. You don’t get to “neg” scholarly works out of existence just because they make you uncomfortable

You can choose not to believe the conclusions of professor Lilly’s study, but I can guarantee he’s done a **** of a lot more research on the topic than you have.

You seem more like the book-burning type though, so I’m not sure why I’m wasting time replying to you
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And you don’t understand statistics.

Extrapolating numbers based on a poorly selected small sample is called “guessing”

There is zero documentation of your fervent wish that American troops are as bad as ***** or the Russians. Sorry to disappoint you.
 
RightSaidFred said:
I agree. But do you think Germany’s best athletes are playing football?

**** no. Germans hate everything about the USA. They hate our culture, our way of life, and our sports.
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US has had a couple of guys make it big in Europe and have one right now. I get the analogy but if they keep going it will get to the point where they are pumping kids at a decent success rate.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
And you don’t understand statistics.

Extrapolating numbers based on a poorly selected small sample is called “guessing”

There is zero documentation of your fervent wish that American troops are as bad as ***** or the Russians. Sorry to disappoint you.
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You’re putting words in my mouth. But that’s the way OCC rolls when he starts losing an argument. Just start throwing a tantrum and knocking down some straw men to distract from the fact that you don’t know what the **** you’re talking about.

I clearly never said American troops are as bad as *****. That’s ridiculous, and I’m actually cringing for you.
 
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RightSaidFred said:
You’re putting words in my mouth. But that’s the way OCC rolls when he starts losing an argument. Just start throwing a tantrum and knocking down some straw men to distract from the fact that you don’t know what the **** you’re talking about.

I clearly never said American troops are as bad as *****. That’s ridiculous, and I’m actually cringing for you.
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I’m not losing anything. When you find documentation of all those vicious rapes committed by American troops, let me know. Did some individual soldiers commit crimes, theft, and rapes. Of course. You get a million men anywhere, and a certain percentage of them are going to be criminals, even troops. But please don’t include some disregarded projection with no real documentation.

But that’s not what we’re talking about here. You were talking about the systematic rape of German women by American soldiers as they swept through Germany. You are a fūcking liar.
 
Crackback at the 0.23 sec mark had me dying.

Ole boy flopping around like a fish out of water.
 
RightSaidFred said:
There's a survey done every year where they ask people from different countries what they think of different countries around the world. In Germany's case, something like 80% of Americans said they like Germany, but only like 20% of Germans said they like America. So we like them, but they can't stand us.

A lot of it is historic. Even though they know they were on the wrong side of the war, a lot of the older folks remembered being carpet bombed by the Americans and they passed that memory on to their kids and grandkids. And even though we were on the right side of that war, and the vast majority of our soldiers were good people, at the end of the day.... it's war.... and a lot of brutal things happen when you take an 18 year old kid from Iowa who's been freezing, shot at, and hasn't been laid in a year, and you send him in to an undefended rural town full of women and children, if you catch my drift.

Also, about half of that country was East Germany before the wall came down, and they were basically a Soviet puppet state. We're all taught over here that the Russians are evil and that everybody who lived under them were miserable, but the world is complicated. Actually a lot of Germans liked the Russians, are very pro-communist, and they side with Russia over the United States. This is especially true in Berlin and eastern Germany.

Add to that, they don't like our politics. Because they lived through WW1 and WW2 in the most personal way, they don't like wars. We happen to start a lot of wars. Because they were the country that brought the world Adolf Hitler, and he was always talking about "rah rah Germany first," they have a deep fear of patriotism and nationalism. We're very patriotic over here and wave our flag everywhere. They remember the military buildup before WW2 and so they don't like military spending. We spend a fortune on our military. Etc etc. Basically, they think we're crazy and unhinged.
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i forgive germany for a lot of what happened primarily because for the most part the ***** are all dead and the german people have overwhelmingly renounced those views and that movement but wow to say that they think americans are unhinged is really quite shocking. there are a lot of things about america and americans i don't like but germans calling americans unhinged is insane.
 
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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
I’m not losing anything. When you find documentation of all those vicious rapes committed by American troops, let me know. Did some individual soldiers commit crimes, theft, and rapes. Of course. You get a million men anywhere, and a certain percentage of them are going to be criminals, even troops. But please don’t include some disregarded projection with no real documentation.

But that’s not what we’re talking about here. You were talking about the systematic rape of German women by American soldiers as they swept through Germany. You are a fūcking liar.
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Yes, let’s back up. I agree.

Somebody asked me why Germans don’t like us. I gave a number of reasons that I have heard from Germans themselves.

One of those reasons: many Germans claim that some of our troops committed war crimes against women during WW2.

You claimed there was no support for this. I linked a scholarly work that does support it.

I happen to believe it. You don’t have to. I think a fair argument could be made either way.

But in the end, what’s important is that many GERMANS believe it happened, and it colors the way many of them see us today. And that was the original question.
 
itsacanething said:
i forgive germany for a lot of what happened primarily because for the most part the ***** are all dead and the german people have overwhelmingly renounced those views and that movement but wow to say that they think americans are unhinged is really quite shocking. there are a lot of things about america and americans i don't like but germans calling americans unhinged is insane.
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I agree fully. I’ve gotten in to many arguments with Germans over this point, over the years.

They’re not in a position to lecture anyone about war and peace and the sanity of government, but...they do.
 
RightSaidFred said:
Yes, let’s back up. I agree.

Somebody asked me why Germans don’t like us. I gave a number of reasons that I have heard from Germans themselves.

One of those reasons: many Germans claim that some of our troops committed war crimes against women during WW2.

You claimed there was no support for this. I linked a scholarly work that does support it.

I happen to believe it. You don’t have to. I think a fair argument could be made either way.

But in the end, what’s important is that many GERMANS believe it happened, and it colors the way many of them see us today. And that was the original question.
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So the Germans, who gleefully participated in genocide, are mad at us because maybe a couple of German whores were “raped” by American soldiers, based on nothing but a meaningless statistical projection?

How about this? How about the Germans being thankful for the Marshall plan, the billions of dollars we threw into their country to help them rebuild, which has never been repaid, and how about they be happy that we didn’t take each and everyone of them and put a bullet in each and everyone of their heads like they actually deserved.

The entire German population was complicit in mass genocide. They should be kissing our *** every day of the week and twice on Sundays for letting them live.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
So the Germans, who gleefully participated in genocide, are mad at us because maybe a couple of German whores were “raped” by American soldiers, based on nothing but a meaningless statistical projection?

How about this? How about the Germans being thankful for the Marshall plan, the billions of dollars we threw into their country to help them rebuild, which has never been repaid, and how about they be happy that we didn’t take each and everyone of them and put a bullet in each and everyone of their heads like they actually deserved.

The entire German population was complicit in mass genocide. They should be kissing our *** every day of the week and twice on Sundays for letting them live.
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I agree with you here in general, except two things.

The ones I’ve heard the rape stories from didn’t read this study, they heard it from grandma or a family friend. That’s actually why I believe these things happened - even though anecdotal evidence isn’t really proof of anything.

And I don’t think the entire population of germany was complicit. I think history is complicated.

I think your heart is in the right place, but we miss an opportunity to truly understand how tragedies like this can happen when we oversimplify their causes.

It’s important to really understand how Hitler was able to gain power and do the things he did. That’s the only way we can prevent it from happening again. If we just say it’s because Germans are evil, we miss the chance to learn from history....but that’s just my opinion. There are a lot of lessons that can be learned from that period
 
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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
I’m not losing anything. When you find documentation of all those vicious rapes committed by American troops, let me know. Did some individual soldiers commit crimes, theft, and rapes. Of course. You get a million men anywhere, and a certain percentage of them are going to be criminals, even troops. But please don’t include some disregarded projection with no real documentation.

But that’s not what we’re talking about here. You were talking about the systematic rape of German women by American soldiers as they swept through Germany. You are a fūcking liar.
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I think the Russian soldiers were much worse to German civilian women when they conquered German territory. I think a lot of German soldiers tried to flee to the West to surrender once it became apparent they were going to be defeated. They did not want to be taken prisoner by the Russians, they preferred to surrender to the British or Americans.

When you talk about rape, the other night I was talking to an elderly woman who was a slave laborer for the Germans during the war. Rather than send her to a concentration camp, she lived in quarters which, I think she said, were not bad. At least not as bad as a concentration camp. She said something suggesting that the women prisoners had their own private quarters and that many of the women had "boyfriends." I took it to mean that they got special privileges, better quarters and so forth, probably for regularly being available to certain German officers. It was difficult to understand her--she has an accent and is probably around 90--I don't remember her exact age. I'm not sure that this is entirely accurate--it was difficult to understand her.

Needless to say, many women were taken prisoner and sexually abused, assaulted and raped by German soldiers. I know there were brothels where women prisoners had to service multiple German men per day.
 
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