Upon Further Review: Manny Diaz as DC

[JD08]

I feel like I've really seen a car roll uphill. I don't want to hear about "science" telling me it's really rolling downhill with all those fancy altitude analytics. I know what I saw.

 

[The Franchise]

^
In the CFBPO, the best vs the best, the winning team scored over 30 points 17 of 21 games.
Over 40 points in more than half of the games.

Hire many times did they score 62 and never punt and gain 600 yards rushing? And how many of those teams in the playoffs were 4 loss teams?

I’ve been saying for a couple years it’s an offensive game now. I was saying that when the cis brain trust was still pounding the “defense wins championships” drum.

However, most of all, it’s a holistic game where you need all 3 phases working in harmony to truly be a great program. We almost never have that against good opponents. When our D has a horrible effort, our O is rarely there to rescue them and visa versa.

That’s why we’re constantly in these stupid CISquabbles about “the offense is good enough, but the defense sucked” or “the defense is championship level, but the offense sucks” when in reality the entire team just isn’t good enough.

For instance, prior to the 2020 season, we heard from Manure’s butt lickers and stat nerds that all Manure needed was a good OC because his D was championship level. Well, he got a good OC and a phenomenal QB and leader, and he still laid his pterodactyl eggs.

Hence, skepticism.

 

[The Franchise]

Thank you Hawkman, you made my point for me. The QB from Toledo, Benkert from Virginia, Pickett from pitt and the QB from Wisconsin torched this defense by completed 3rd/4th downs all game long over and over again! To be fair I’m not gonna throw Clemson in there because obviously the talent gap was way to large with them. But NO supposed “top DC” gets shredded by those other four teams not only through the air but on the ground too. Now of course us with eyes and who have played the game know Diaz isn’t anywhere near a top DC in CFB but go ahead carry on with your slurper brigade agenda all the way to the slaughter house, makes no difference to me. Because my eyes and experience in the game know what I’ve seen out of Manure, I don’t need a bunch of nerdy stats ala goldy/noD to figure out what’s good and what isn’t. Good is NOT giving up the most yards in the history of Texas and Miami, bad is giving UP the most yard in the history of Texas and Miami. Can’t spell it out any clearer then that sport. And I’m gonna go ahead and @ your partner in crime here @Go Canes!! because he wanted some “examples” of the 2017 season that you got for me Hawkster. Read your “examples” above Go Canes.

Throw Clemson in there too because Kelly Bryant was trash, and he set a personal record on Manure. Might have been a Clemson record too that he set.

 

[NicKane]

What’s your view on CB’s under him? So you think it’s that he doesn’t care about the position as much, is it him/Baker forcing them to play off the line with little press man coverage

I know you already know the answer to this my friend. Manny thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room, he actually thinks his scheme is “so good” that he doesn’t need above average CBs to win in this game. Smh the espn wonder boy (like I’ve said before) is trying to reinvent the defensive coaching wheel that’s been In place for over a hundreds years of CFB. Lol it’s complete asinine the thinking of Manure but you still have guys on here waving the “manny is the best thing to happen to defensive football since sliced bread” flags. it’s insanity because every year Mannys scheme is gonna do the same thing that it’s done since it’s existence which is get eviscerated by any team with equal talent or a good coaching staff but yet fans on here continue to expect different results. That’s the definition of insanity btw.

 

[Rellyrell]

No. We’re coming to conclusions based on what we observe.

Not sure where all this emotional attribution comes from, but football is a pretty simple game. Stat guys attempt to make it more complicated than it is by conjuring stats that attempt to refute what we actually see. PFF does it all the time.

Stats say the 2014 Hurricanes defense was the #14 defense in the nation in Total Defense.

 

[The Franchise]

This thread is fascinating to say the least. When @Lance Roffers is critical of the D or anything else about our program the same poeple who are in here trying to pick holes in his analysis are stepping over each other to praise Lance for keeping it real or whatever dumbass **** they want to say. But now when Lance does something that shows Manny is a lot better than most they want to try and pick him apart. You know because the % of first quarter drives in an odd number year on the third saturday in Nov sucked. We've all agreed that YPP is probably the best metric to compare and total D is garbage. remember when DNO had a total D that was good, but we were still garbage? If you hate Manny just stand up and say it. Stop being puzzies about it and say i hate the guy and i hope he fails because i didn't like him or want him here.

I find it so interesting people will double, triple, and quadruple down on dumb when something doesn't fit their narrative. This thread lays bare all of the true *** haters. This is why you can't have conversations because of the eye test, but when the eye test is great against other teams the narrative then becomes, well they sucked, or some other kind of BS.

Lance is a mountain of a man, but what he showed us was that Manure has been excellent for the most part giving up YPP. That’s it. Nothing more. Nothing less. There are guys who see that stat as the end all be all in football, and there are those who don’t.

It’s been a great discussion topic that he put on here. Some guys don’t want to discuss. Then don’t.

 

[RVACane]

I know you already know the answer to this my friend. Manny thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room, he actually thinks his scheme is “so good” that he doesn’t need above average CBs to win in this game. Smh the espn wonder boy (like I’ve said before) is trying to reinvent the defensive coaching wheel that’s been In place for over a hundreds years of CFB. Lol it’s complete asinine the thinking of Manure but you still have guys on here waving the “manny is the best thing to happen to defensive football since sliced bread” flags. it’s insanity because every year Mannys scheme is gonna do the same thing that it’s done since it’s existence which is get eviscerated by any team with equal talent or a good coaching staff but yet fans on here continue to expect different results. That’s the definition of insanity btw.

I’m going to be optimistic about the future here, notwithstanding past shortcomings, because I see positive signs, like staff change outs, recruiting and the portal.

I don’t think Manny brought Shoop, TWill, RRob and Simpson here to do the same failed things. If I’m wrong, Manny will be gone but if I’m right then everyone here, with the exception of a small few continually miserable poRsters, will be happy... or at least happier.

 

[The Franchise]

One of the posters here put it best. People want affirmation not information. Nobody follows the evidence.

And some people are not always looking to be convinced by authority figures. Some of us enjoy a good hearty discussion where you put your argument out there and defend it instead of just saying, “Lance said Manure is elite at YPP, so that settles it.” There are plenty of things to discuss after Lance’s post, and there are some excellent guys (and some nincompoops) doing that.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

One of the posters here put it best. People want affirmation not information. Nobody follows the evidence.

You realize you could also reverse that statement and it's also true right?

Information is just gross data . Context is king. I know for many people on this board that's like trying to explain advanced trigonometry to an impaired chimp....but it doesn't make it any less true.

Stats lie more than a politician. It's also ironic politicians always carry non contextual stats around in their back pocket which they spew on demand when faced with certain questions. Don't be that guy.

If I tell you a coordinator's defense was ranked in the top 10 but you don't take into account the schedule he played included St Brendan's, Lourdes, and Archbishop Carrol.....well that would make you just as guilty as the impaired chimp.

How many of you guys were around for the Coker days? Do you have ANY idea how many ******* morons on the site most of us migrated from kept spewing out Coker's WINNING PERCENTAGE AND NATIONAL TITLE as an argument for why he shouldn't be fired? It's a stat, it was real. It also wasn't put into CONTEXT.

 

[The Franchise]

I don’t think Manny brought Shoop, TWill, RRob and Simpson here to do the same failed things. If I’m wrong, Manny will be gone but if I’m right then everyone here, with the exception of a small few continually miserable poRsters, will be happy... or at least happier.

Do you think he brought the previous guys here to fail? And how much do you really think he’s open to changing his ideas on D when he kept Blank and Patke on staff and made himself playcaller?

Everyone is clearly entitled to look at things the way they choose. However, some of you guys have gone overboard labeling skeptics of Manure as miserable or unreasonable when the facts support skepticism overwhelmingly over optimism with regard to him.

Ask Beardy Ryan what he thinks of Manure and his defense. Ask LCE. LuCane has been vocal in his criticism towards the end of last season. Relly is clearly a skeptic. The smarter guys are on the skeptical side of the fence.

 

[RVACane]

Do you think he brought the previous guys here to fail? And how much do you really think he’s open to changing his ideas on D when he kept Blank and Patke on staff and made himself playcaller?

Everyone is clearly entitled to look at things the way they choose. However, some of you guys have gone overboard labeling skeptics of Manure as miserable or unreasonable when the facts support skepticism overwhelmingly over optimism with regard to him.

Ask Beardy Ryan what he thinks of Manure and his defense. Ask LCE. LuCane has been vocal in his criticism towards the end of last season. Relly is clearly a skeptic. The smarter guys are on the skeptical side of the fence.

I’m not defending his defense. I’m also not lumping critics of Manny, something I’ve done plenty of, in with miserable poRsting non-stop dreck. You’re broadbrushing it and it isn’t as cut and dry as everyone who doesn’t like Manny is X... at least not for me.

And yeah, regardless of what we’ve seen, I’m going to be optimistic that Shoop, TRob, TWill and Simpson aren’t here so that Manny can do the same exact failed thing he did last year. I’m pretty sure that LCE and Macho are at least happy about the staff hires, even though all of us feel there should be a DC as well.

Finally, some of you guys who are *****ing at how he got Baker out (who cares, he’s gone with no buyout) and where Rumph is now working (you don’t know that this isn’t an AD /BOT call), and calling the whole thing all luck, are hanging your hats on hyperbole when the trends are a new staff on D, success in recruiting and success in the portal.

But it really doesn’t matter until the games are played. In the meantime, I choose to be hopeful for better things to come and appreciate the steps I’ve seen. Others can continue to say everything sucks and everything is ****ed, every day in every thread.

 

[JD08]

And some people are not always looking to be convinced by authority figures. Some of us enjoy a good hearty discussion where you put your argument out there and defend it instead of just saying, “Lance said Manure is elite at YPP, so that settles it.” There are plenty of things to discuss after Lance’s post, and there are some excellent guys (and some nincompoops) doing that.

That's why I asked about using success rate instead of YPP. It would seem to me that a few really good rushes could skew the metrics, but Lance added context. I'm always up for a good discussion and sometimes it's great here, but there's a segment of people who only want to share their opinion and have people agree without ever having to consider other opinions.

 

[JD08]

You realize you could also reverse that statement and it's also true right?

Information is just gross data . Context is king. I know for many people on this board that's like trying to explain advanced trigonometry to an impaired chimp....but it doesn't make it any less true.

Stats lie more than a politician. It's also ironic politicians always carry non contextual stats around in their back pocket which they spew on demand when faced with certain questions. Don't be that guy.

If I tell you a coordinator's defense was ranked in the top 10 but you don't take into account the schedule he played included St Brendan's, Lourdes, and Archbishop Carrol.....well that would make you just as guilty as the impaired chimp.

How many of you guys were around for the Coker days? Do you have ANY idea how many ******* morons on the site most of us migrated from kept spewing out Coker's WINNING PERCENTAGE AND NATIONAL TITLE as an argument for why he shouldn't be fired? It's a stat, it was real. It also wasn't put into CONTEXT.

Of course context is key. That's why UCF's undefeated national championship is a joke.

Coker did have great stats, but when you looked at the trends of those stats, it painted a different picture.

A very significant part of business intelligence is selecting the measures that provide the most accurate picture. The problem is that it's also possible to skew that picture to fit a narrative and then hide behind the numbers in the face of criticism.

 

[The Franchise]

I’m not defending his defense. I’m also not lumping critics of Manny, something I’ve done plenty of, in with miserable poRsting dreck. You’re broadbrushing it and it isn’t as cut and dry as everyone who doesn’t like Manny is X... at least not for me.

And yeah, regardless of what we’ve seen, I’m going to be optimistic that Shoop, TRob, TWill and Simpson aren’t here so that Manny can do the same exact failed thing he did last year. I’m pretty sure that LCE and Macho are at least happy about the staff hires, even though all of us feel there should be a DC as well.

Finally, some of you guys who are *****ing at how he got Baker out (who cares, he’s gone with no buyout) and where Rumph is now working (you don’t know that this isn’t an AD /BOT call), and calling the whole thing all luck, are hanging your hats on hyperbole when the trends are a new staff on D, success in recruiting and success in the portal.

But it really doesn’t matter until the games are played. In the meantime, I choose to be hopeful for better things to come and appreciate the steps I’ve seen. Others can continue to say everything sucks and everything is ****ed.

I’m happy about the hires too. And LCE even said Robinson will likely be here a year. So we’re all happy with the hires. It’s show me time though.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Lance is a mountain of a man, but what he showed us was that Manure has been excellent for the most part giving up YPP. That’s it. Nothing more. Nothing less. There are guys who see that stat as the end all be all in football, and there are those who don’t.

It’s been a great discussion topic that he put on here. Some guys don’t want to discuss. Then don’t.

Whoa whoa whoa big guy. I'm just pointing out a couple of things I find interesting about our lil community here.

But because it's you, i'll discuss. My eyes tell me we were a good D when Manny was a DC and the stats say the same thing.

The whole any team with a pulse demolishes us thing is nonsense, because the stats stated that most of the good teams on O we play those teams were held under their averages in most categories. My eyes tell me the same thing. Now a few QBs found success. However something else my eyes tell me that you won't find in stats is that EVERY team still gets up to play Miami. Benkurt was a S. FL kid who played the game of his life and still got smashed. Yes he had one **** of a first half, but we adjusted and shut them down. Hornibrook made some throws that night he's never made in his life, and never made again, under duress throwing dimes. Not all QBs we play we will shut down, this doesn't happen ever with any team in CFB, and won't.

My eyes tell me that from 2016-2018, on defense, there weren't that many better teams at adjustments on D. After the first couple of drives and after the half. The stats back that up as well

My eyes and the stats showed me that after each and every year Manny the DC took something that was a weakness the year before and turned it around. After our LBs kept getting exposed by Clemson we went to the striker. our 3rd down defense wasn't great in 17, led the nation the next year. Offensive staff after year 1, Lashlee. D staff after year two, turn it over. Lack of turnover in 16, TO chain and being second in the nation in takeaways the next year.

People want to hate manny for the BYU game, because of run fits, because blah blah blah blah. The stats are the industry tells us Manny has had a lot more success as a DC than failure.

As for the whole it's Manny's scheme thing. I get that people think just because of philosophical likeness things should be the same, but that's not how it works. @HighSeas i think did a break down of blitzing and man defense of Manny vs Blake. Not only have we played and blitzed a ton less under Baker we also play things differently. Play callers who excel have a great feel for the game. Baker didn't have the same feel Manny had. It makes a huge difference.

Again those are just my opinions based on stats and eye

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Of course context is key. That's why UCF's undefeated national championship is a joke.

Coker did have great stats, but when you looked at the trends of those stats, it painted a different picture.

A very significant part of business intelligence is selecting the measures that provide the most accurate picture. The problem is that it's also possible to skew that picture to fit a narrative and then hide behind the numbers in the face of criticism.

I agree with that last paragraph....but the extrapolation of that logic on the Manny hire doesn't yield a rosy outlook. We've got quite a few ostriches burying their heads in the sand on this site.

 

[RVACane]

I’m happy about the hires too. And LCE even said Robinson will likely be here a year. So we’re all happy with the hires. It’s show me time though.

It’s a win-win for me which is why I’m not stressed out about it. If it doesn’t work then Manny and possibly Blake are gone and a new potential AD and coach come in with some talent on the roster and some good staff in place - if interested. If it works, then we’re all better off.

 

[JD08]

I agree with that last paragraph....but the extrapolation of that logic on the Manny hire doesn't yield a rosy outlook. We've got quite a few ostriches burying their heads in the sand on this site.

It's not a bleak outlook either. The new hires are sufficient cause for optimism for me.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

It's not a bleak outlook either. The new hires are sufficient cause for optimism for me.

That's where we disagree and our interpretation of the data veers in different directions. A guy like Trob isn't going to be here long anyways. My fear is Manny beats up on the bad teams just enough to get an an extension and then we're right back in purgatory. Our schedule is always going to give a mediocre coach the chance to win just enough games to satiate our incompetent, apathetic administration.

My opinion on his hire is the same as the day his hiring was announced. I don't believe in criticizing decisions after the fact. You judge a decision by the set of data points available AT THE MOMENT of the decision since none of us have a crystal ball. I'm trying to be as fair as possible here but this is going to go down as ANOTHER University of Miami head coach who gets fired here, and can't get another head coaching job anywhere.

 

[423Hurricane]

It’s a win-win for me which is why I’m not stressed out about it. If it doesn’t work then Manny and possibly Blake are gone and a new potential AD and coach come in with some talent on the roster and some good staff in place - if interested. If it works, then we’re all better off.

Because some of us see the state of the program from a different perspective doesn’t mean we’re walking around with blinders on or are mongoloids.

I’ve given credit where credit is due and criticism when warranted. I prefer to look at the state of the program from a macro point of view and not focus on one or two negatives that may or may not Impact play on the field.