UM, Simpson pursuing 2022 FSU DE commit Kelly

[WestGA'Cane]

OK I’ll play this game. Please tell me out of the schools that he’s considering what coach on any staff has consistently put some under the radar defensive end linebacker n the first round or the first 3 rounds. Everyone seems to have some **** double standard when it comes to judging development at this program.
When they don’t make The league it’s because we under developed. When they do make the league it’s because they were freaks of nature and they were going to go in the first round anyway regardless of what school they went to.

When some unknown three-star go somewhere else and makes a league OMG how can we miss out on these players that are in the Tri-County area. How can we like the coaches who can’t seWhen some unknown three-star go somewhere else and makes a league OMG how can we miss out on these players that are in the Tri-County area. How can we like the coaches who can’t evaluate local talent. Evaluating under the radar local talent is exactly what Rousseau was. He didn’t have any of the front runner schools after him. Not even the local state schools were after him hard and everyone seems to just glance over that fact.
Rousseau and Phillips are the **** definition of what a program’s evaluation, strength and conditioning, and position coaching success stories in all of cfb.
If both of them would’ve went to Alabama everybody would be gargling on that midget’s nuts like they do over every single kid that they get in the league.
Please tell me what other schools were so hard after Phillips while he was weighing 210 pounds? Who project him to be a first round pick the minute he came into our program from the transfer portal?
Everyone gives programs like Ohio State Alabama and Clemson credit for developing five star athletes but then not give the same credit to our staff when we do the same sht.

I think credit for Phillips goes primarily to S&C. Obviously lots of raw athleticism to work with.
Stroud was replaced, bottom line. In spite of a couple high caliber DE's, a large part of the blame for the UNC debacle landed at the feet of the DL. Guy could recruit, and that's important, but doesn't compare to Simpson in terms of teaching technique and having the DL maintain some sort of lane/gap discipline. What are your thoughts on the '19 & '20 DL versus '18 & '17?

 

[Ethnicsands]

I am well aware of that. But nobody was blowing his phone up wanting him to go to their team except us. And then when he did come here nobody was saying that we had a number one draft pick on our hands. As a matter of fact some people say that but there was no way we were going to develop him into a first round pick because “that’s not what we do”.
A bunch of people on here kept questioning the development on our squad because Joe Jackson and Jonathan Garvin weren’t first round picks and neither was Chad Thomas.
Not only did we get the number one player of the 2017 cycle, but we got him while he had been out of football for over a year showed up on campus looking like he hadn’t seen a weight room in a very long time.
So no one wants to give our staff credit for Phillips and Rousseau but hype all these schools that consistently recruit elit players. I guess Chase Young would’ve not been a day one pick of he came her too.
It’s a double standard and a ridiculous way to compare coaches when these schools are stacked with blue chip players.

You're seeing ghosts, man. Double standard? Do you blame our same staff for not 'developing' Donaldson or Scaife? Or Mallory to this point? Or Pope?

You guys want to hand out green stars for every success and sweep every failure under the carpet. I'm just tryna be balanced. We ain't good at developing. We prolly ain't that bad at it either. Because most of development is what the kids put into it. We have a S&C program like eeryone else. Phillips took a year off, and rebounded here, and became who he was. When we do this regularly, consistently, as well or better than most programs, you can convince me we should pat ourselves on the back for it. Until then, I won't blame the staff for bad development and won't credit them with good development, because the conflict between those two ideas is irreconcilable.

And re Phillips, I have no idea why you assume no one other than us had interest in him. Is that some fact you know? Under NCAA rules, it's illegal for a school to call a kid under scholarship at another school (other than via portal). But technicalities aside, the idea that we were the only program aware of Phillips is crazy. The kid was the top recruit in the country as a HS senior.

 

[pacusmc]

I think credit for Phillips goes primarily to S&C. Obviously lots of raw athleticism to work with.
Stroud was replaced, bottom line. In spite of a couple high caliber DE's, a large part of the blame for the UNC debacle landed at the feet of the DL. Guy could recruit, and that's important, but doesn't compare to Simpson in terms of teaching technique and having the DL maintain some sort of lane/gap discipline. What are your thoughts on the '19 & '20 DL versus '18 & '17?

I’m far from an x and o guy.
My thing is that you have these programs that turnover coordinators and position coaches but they still produce high quality players and draft picks. The common denominator to all of the frontrunner programs is elite level recruiting for multiple years at every position.
I’m not smart enough to get into the details of coaching a defensive line. But this notion that the only reason Phillips is gonna go in the first round is because he’s a “freak” is partly true. But what’s not true is that this staff had nothing to do with it.

As far as team defense there are talent gaps and schematic inconsistencies. So while we had Phillips and Rousseau, we haven’t had an Rj or a Willis to complement them. We’ve had talented players on this defense but there has been huge talent gaps at corner linebacker and Dtackle.
Those talent gaps have been taken full advantage of by competent coaches.

 

[Angry Ibis]

There is literally no debate about it but our fan base is so traumatized that they can’t even see any positive. You could make a 30-30 short about Rousseau and Phillips and their paths to the draft and why Rousseau declared early and his freak season. Then show a before and after picture of both and how Phillips was totally out of football.
Maybe someone should bump the thread about what people thought of Phillips and Rousseau when each one committed.
We literally got the number one over all player of the 2017 class with one of the most freakish HS tapes I’ve ever seen and mfers in here were like “meh”.

Bull****. “Traumatized” is the excuse for horrible takes???

 

[Ethnicsands]

How much players you know that left the game for awhile..came back and performed like Phillips?.

Who are the de's that havent developed here in the last 5-6 years?.

We develop kids at TE and DE....as well as RB.

We suck at evals and developing at certain other positions. Those are facts and stuff i agree with you on.

My issue is you are equating the de and te position and lumping them with development at all the other positions. It doesnt work like that..we have different coaches at different positions. For years we had a high school level coach..corching our cbs. How much would you like to bet we get better at evals and development at db pretty soon?.

I didnt even see the genetics with Rousseau. (i thought he had a narrow frame that might not be able to handle weight) We had to develop him persay as this is a kid that played small school ball..and not really at dline. Anything he learned as a dlineman came from UM,...i literally stood 3 feet away and watched Jess Simpson lead him into technique and drills the spring he got here. I immediately came back on the board and ate crow as to what i saw i knew the kid would be an issue moving forward. P.S. I Played Left Tackle in college. Tackle and DE are the positions i can watch for 5 mins and evaluate at a high level.

See, this makes no sense to me. We've had 3 different DL coaches the past 5 years, and 2 different TE coaches. Neither of the TE coaches were known as developers. Simpson came here from HS. Fields wasn't far from it. It ain't some magic coaching we're giving them. And the S&C room ain't different for TEs and DEs vs. eeryone else. We got the right kids and they took advantage of their opportunities. Yes our DL scheme is better for showing them off than some other positions. But the NFL ain't fooled by that. They know how to grade prospects.

You mock Rumph as a HS level coach. What was Simpson when he got here? And evals? I don't know who to blame on them. That's been a recurring question from me. Was it Rumph? Banda? Baker? Diaz? All of them? I don't know.

Re Rousseau, it's too easy to say this after the fact, so I don't want to over-state ... but his genetics came through, let's just say that. The guy played a season here. He's huge, his frame filled out, he's a prototype. If he has the heart and commitment of some other former Canes, there's nothing he can't accomplish in the NFL. Rousseau has a chance to be one of the greats. God gave him that ability, IMO.

 

[pacusmc]

You're seeing ghosts, man. Double standard? Do you blame our same staff for not 'developing' Donaldson or Scaife? Or Mallory to this point? Or Pope?

You guys want to hand out green stars for every success and sweep every failure under the carpet. I'm just tryna be balanced. We ain't good at developing. We prolly ain't that bad at it either. Because most of development is what the kids put into it. We have a S&C program like eeryone else. Phillips took a year off, and rebounded here, and became who he was. When we do this regularly, consistently, as well or better than most programs, you can convince me we should pat ourselves on the back for it. Until then, I won't blame the staff for bad development and won't credit them with good development, because the conflict between those two ideas is irreconcilable.

And re Phillips, I have no idea why you assume no one other than us had interest in him. Is that some fact you know? Under NCAA rules, it's illegal for a school to call a kid under scholarship at another school (other than via portal). But technicalities aside, the idea that we were the only program aware of Phillips is crazy. The kid was the top recruit in the country as a HS senior.

If I’m seeing ghosts then your seeing a facade.
Very few players have been hyped up and mystified as much as Noddles. Please tell me why Ahmon Richards stepped foot on campus and day one told every receiver to hold my beer but pope can’t do the basic task of catching a pass in pads in his 3rd year here. I’m sure he’ll kill it at the flag football league.
It’s hilarious cause I and everyone else hyped pope out to be the next great UM receiver while people here wanted AR at corner back thinking he wasn’t as good of a receiver. And even some said that he should provide “quality depth”.
Scaife would not start on any frontrunner team and he sure as **** would never be on the field as a freshman.
Plenty of 4 and 5 star tight ends have never made the league despite going to to these frontrunner schools. But we get 2 of them and one of them is getting drafted. But no no no. Every single one of our blue chip players has to be a high draft pick or catch for at least 800. Maybe Mallory’s problem is that tank of a knee brace he’s been lugging around for the past 2 years that no one talks about.

At some point you just can’t blatantly say scaife sucks cause of coaching then say Zion looked good last year. Gaynor getting abused by clemsons line has nothing to do with coaching
And coaching also has nothing to do with Breese and Murphy looking like studs as freshman.
I’m sure all of these 2 and 3 star players that play in the nfl had great position gurus that we should have on staff so they can teach pope what position he should have his hands in.

This ain’t the late 90’s any more man. We aren’t gonna get these unknown kids at the level Butch got them. Everyone knows where everyone is. And these 2 and 3 star players that are all over the nfl even got missed by all the top football evaluators in cfb.
I dont recall saban or Urban heavily involved in the recruitment of most of the players in the super bowl.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t be winning more. But saying some the players you mentioned aren’t performing at a higher level might have more to do with the player than the coach.
And the reason I say that is just based on performance by other players at the same position.

 

[Ethnicsands]

If I’m seeing ghosts then your seeing a facade.
Very few players have been hyped up and mystified as much as Noddles. Please tell me why Ahmon Richards stepped foot on campus and day one told every receiver to hold my beer but pope can’t do the basic task of catching a pass in pads in his 3rd year here. I’m sure he’ll kill it at the flag football league.
It’s hilarious cause I and everyone else hyped pope out to be the next great UM receiver while people here wanted AR at corner back thinking he wasn’t as good of a receiver. And even some said that he should provide “quality depth”.
Scaife would not start on any frontrunner team and he sure as **** would never be on the field as a freshman.
Plenty of 4 and 5 star tight ends have never made the league despite going to to these frontrunner schools. But we get 2 of them and one of them is getting drafted. But no no no. Every single one of our blue chip players has to be a high draft pick or catch for at least 800. Maybe Mallory’s problem is that tank of a knee brace he’s been lugging around for the past 2 years that no one talks about.

At some point you just can’t blatantly say scaife sucks cause of coaching then say Zion looked good last year. Gaynor getting abused by clemsons line has nothing to do with coaching
And coaching also has nothing to do with Breese and Murphy looking like studs as freshman.
I’m sure all of these 2 and 3 star players that play in the nfl had great position gurus that we should have on staff so they can teach pope what position he should have his hands in.

This ain’t the late 90’s any more man. We aren’t gonna get these unknown kids at the level Butch got them. Everyone knows where everyone is. And these 2 and 3 star players that are all over the nfl even got missed by all the top football evaluators in cfb.
I dont recall saban or Urban heavily involved in the recruitment of most of the players in the super bowl.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t be winning more. But saying some the players you mentioned aren’t performing at a higher level might have more to do with the player than the coach.
And the reason I say that is just based on performance by other players at the same position.

Everyone knows where everyone is. And these 2 and 3 star players that are all over the nfl even got missed by all the top football evaluators in cfb.

Lmao. nice logic

I’m not saying we shouldn’t be winning more. But saying some the players you mentioned aren’t performing at a higher level might have more to do with the player than the coach.

Of course it does. Except, the coaches pick them. That’s why we talk about evaluations.

As for Richards and Pope, I definitely want one of the richards skeptics. Don’t recall them like you do but will take your word for it.

I did think pope would be better than he is.

Safire should be better than he is. He was a really good recruit and there wasn’t anyone I recall who doubted it.

 

[gogeta4]

See, this makes no sense to me. We've had 3 different DL coaches the past 5 years, and 2 different TE coaches. Neither of the TE coaches were known as developers. Simpson came here from HS. Fields wasn't far from it. It ain't some magic coaching we're giving them. And the S&C room ain't different for TEs and DEs vs. eeryone else. We got the right kids and they took advantage of their opportunities. Yes our DL scheme is better for showing them off than some other positions. But the NFL ain't fooled by that. They know how to grade prospects.

You mock Rumph as a HS level coach. What was Simpson when he got here? And evals? I don't know who to blame on them. That's been a recurring question from me. Was it Rumph? Banda? Baker? Diaz? All of them? I don't know.

Re Rousseau, it's too easy to say this after the fact, so I don't want to over-state ... but his genetics came through, let's just say that. The guy played a season here. He's huge, his frame filled out, he's a prototype. If he has the heart and commitment of some other former Canes, there's nothing he can't accomplish in the NFL. Rousseau has a chance to be one of the greats. God gave him that ability, IMO.

Ok now im going to say your trolling. We've had 3 different dl coaches but THE SAME DEFENSIVE COACH who is our current HEAD COACH. In fact he should be the guy credited for Rousseau as he is the one that saw him for what he would be...becuase of what do you know...the kid Stroud had at Nc State Manny Lawson.

Simpson came here from the Atlanta Falcons, before that he was at Georgia State, and before that was coach in high school for 22 years. With like 10 straight state finals at Buford.
Rumph wasnt close as a coach.

Field coached at UM, Hampton, and we got him from Oregon where they were stashing him as a recruiting coordinator (he did the same at Louisville). He wasnt far from a hs coach?. Again if yall dont even know your own team...just sit it out.

- Lol you dont know who to blame it on...Rumph is now fetching coffee and setting up chairs when we have recruiting camps...it aint hard to figure out.

 

[pacusmc]

See, this makes no sense to me. We've had 3 different DL coaches the past 5 years, and 2 different TE coaches. Neither of the TE coaches were known as developers. Simpson came here from HS. Fields wasn't far from it. It ain't some magic coaching we're giving them. And the S&C room ain't different for TEs and DEs vs. eeryone else. We got the right kids and they took advantage of their opportunities. Yes our DL scheme is better for showing them off than some other positions. But the NFL ain't fooled by that. They know how to grade prospects.

You mock Rumph as a HS level coach. What was Simpson when he got here? And evals? I don't know who to blame on them. That's been a recurring question from me. Was it Rumph? Banda? Baker? Diaz? All of them? I don't know.

Re Rousseau, it's too easy to say this after the fact, so I don't want to over-state ... but his genetics came through, let's just say that. The guy played a season here. He's huge, his frame filled out, he's a prototype. If he has the heart and commitment of some other former Canes, there's nothing he can't accomplish in the NFL. Rousseau has a chance to be one of the greats. God gave him that ability, IMO.

The same genetics also happen when you get guys like Najee Harris and Dylan Moses
Since 2016 Alabama has changed position coaches on both sides of the ball at all positions almost yearly. None of them produced like they did at Bama before or after they left. And the reason is simple: none of the schools they were at before or after bama have recruited the amount of talent that Bama has. Plain and simple.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Ok now im going to say your trolling. We've had 3 different dl coaches but THE SAME DEFENSIVE COACH who is our current HEAD COACH. In fact he should be the guy credited for Rousseau as he is the one that saw him for what he would be...becuase of what do you know...the kid Stroud had at Nc State Manny Lawson.

Simpson came here from the Atlanta Falcons, before that he was at Georgia State, and before that was coach in high school for 22 years. With like 10 straight state finals at Buford.
Rumph wasnt close as a coach.

Field coached at UM, Hampton, and we got him from Oregon where they were stashing him as a recruiting coordinator (he did the same at Louisville). He wasnt far from a hs coach?. Again if yall dont even know your own team...just sit it out.

- Lol you dont know who to blame it on...Rumph is now fetching coffee and setting up chairs when we have recruiting camps...it aint hard to figure out.

So you now give manny the credit for ‘developing’ our DEs? Okay. Too bad he couldn’t develop any LBs he recruited when he actually recruited and coached LBs.

The point on simpson and field is clear enough. you were dissing rumph as a HS coach. rumph did a lot more on the field than either of them. Simpson had like one season as an assistant something or other, not a position coach, in the nfl before joining us. Fields was no great college coach. You’re overselling the differences, imo. Rumph isn’t a god recruiter. I get that. Been saying so for four years here.

 

[Ethnicsands]

The same genetics also happen when you get guys like Najee Harris and Dylan Moses
Since 2016 Alabama has changed position coaches on both sides of the ball at all positions almost yearly. None of them produced like they did at Bama before or after they left. And the reason is simple: none of the schools they were at before or after bama have recruited the amount of talent that Bama has. Plain and simple.

No idea why you’d respond with that to me. Where have I ever said Alabama develops kids better? Probably nowhere.

They recruit and evaluate really well, and have a good enough culture and environment that kids can compete and improve (and hence develop). They do get really good coaches, but like you say, they come and go.

 

[gogeta4]

So you now give manny the credit for ‘developing’ our DEs? Okay. Too bad he couldn’t develop any LBs he recruited when he actually recruited and coached LBs.

The point on simpson and field is clear enough. you were dissing rumph as a HS coach. rumph did a lot more on the field than either of them. Simpson had like one season as an assistant something or other, not a position coach, in the nfl before joining us. Fields was no great college coach. You’re overselling the differences, imo. Rumph isn’t a god recruiter. I get that. Been saying so for four years here.

Manny was the 1 that saw Roussea as a DE. He was the one who evaluated him as that and what he has become as a de. Rousseau himself thanked him specifically for that and stated exactly that on multiple occasions.

I sh*t on his evaluations at lb for years...including in different post just this week. But stay on task bro..you all over the place.

Rumph isnt a good coach. He doesnt/didnt have the resume of Fields or Simpson FULL STOP.
Simpson built a power house program and coached in the nfl as an assistant, Field was a recruiting coordinator at oregon and in that year thy had like the #1 class. lol. These are guys who are/were good at their job

Who gives a f what he done on the field...he just got replaced by a guy i coached youth ball with a few short years ago lol

 

[Ethnicsands]

You got a thing for rumph. okay. doesn’t matter either way to me. simpson is solid. we’ll see in fields. would like to see more in recruiting from him but not complaining.

As for manny and rousseau, if that’s true, good for manny. didn’t recall that. best news i’ve heard about manny as an evaluator ever.

 

[gogeta4]

You got a thing for rumph. okay. doesn’t matter either way to me. simpson is solid. we’ll see in fields. would like to see more in recruiting from him but not complaining.

As for manny and rousseau, if that’s true, good for manny. didn’t recall that. best news i’ve heard about manny as an evaluator ever.

YOU got a thing for Rumph.

You like to see more recruiting from Fields?. What do you mean by that?.

Back to the thread..we need to flip Kelly. He is Chad Thomas like and we cant allow that type to head to our rivals. Kelly is going to be a 6'4 250-255 strong side de his second year in a program. I got Jones...then Stewart ...then Kelly as pecking order heading into spring eval period.

 

[Ethnicsands]

YOU got a thing for Rumph.

You like to see more recruiting from Fields?. What do you mean by that?.

Back to the thread..we need to flip Kelly. He is Chad Thomas like and we cant allow that type to head to our rivals. Kelly is going to be a 6'4 250-255 strong side de his second year in a program. I got Jones...then Stewart ...then Kelly as pecking order heading into spring eval period.

i don’t have anything for rumph. despite what you think i was probably one of the very first people here to say he should be fired because he couldn’t recruit - back early in the richt years. but i didn’t go from that to blaming him for more than he deserves or building others up beyond what they deserve, so now i got a thing for him.

re fields, he’s here as a recruiter, and has an easy spot to recruit from. i want to see him run into the fields and return with milk and honey. by the buckets.

i like kelly. i think i agree with you. haven’t seen enough on all these guys yet but other than stewart and jones, put him right there. not as high on anderson who folks pencil in for us. not as high on the guys we got in ‘21. so yeah, want some studs in ‘22. unsure on kenyatta - the clemson eval catches my attention but wasn’t convinced from what i recall watching.

 

[gogeta4]

i don’t have anything for rumph. despite what you think i was probably one of the very first people here to say he should be fired because he couldn’t recruit - back early in the richt years. but i didn’t go from that to blaming him for more than he deserves or building others up beyond what they deserve, so now i got a thing for him.

re fields, he’s here as a recruiter, and has an easy spot to recruit from. i want to see him run into the fields and return with milk and honey. by the buckets.

i like kelly. i think i agree with you. haven’t seen enough on all these guys yet but other than stewart and jones, put him right there. not as high on anderson who folks pencil in for us. not as high on the guys we got in ‘21. so yeah, want some studs in ‘22. unsure on kenyatta - the clemson eval catches my attention but wasn’t convinced from what i recall watching.

Coached against both Kelly and Jackson. You seen where i put Kelly. Jackson will be a good player though..i just like Kellys frame more so right now. He aint even tapped into a real s&c and the arms and ability is there
I dont know who all they throw Fields on to recruit. But we have an absurd amount of te offers right now with a ton of elite talent with those offers.

Maybe they will have Fields mine some Palm Beach and maybe the north florida area he coached at N orth Marion. Then nationally.

 

[ageezy]

this is why im soooo confused on what my man is selling.
Its like they dont want us to actually sell what were good at..for what reason?.

i und

You got a thing for rumph. okay. doesn’t matter either way to me. simpson is solid. we’ll see in fields. would like to see more in recruiting from him but not complaining.

As for manny and rousseau, if that’s true, good for manny. didn’t recall that. best news i’ve heard about manny as an evaluator ever.

i don't like to get in the middle of grown men, but i will say that manny said he saw gr as a manny lawson type that he had at ncstate multiple times

 

[Ethnicsands]

i und

i don't like to get in the middle of grown men, but i will say that manny said he saw gr as a manny lawson type that he had at ncstate multiple times

Good for manny in tjat case. Like to hear that.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Coached against both Kelly and Jackson. You seen where i put Kelly. Jackson will be a good player though..i just like Kellys frame more so right now. He aint even tapped into a real s&c and the arms and ability is there
I dont know who all they throw Fields on to recruit. But we have an absurd amount of te offers right now with a ton of elite talent with those offers.

Maybe they will have Fields mine some Palm Beach and maybe the north florida area he coached at N orth Marion. Then nationally.

Excited to see kelly as a senior. Hope we can turn him.

re fields, i definitely am referring to his broader recruiting. Not complaining abojt te but see him as a guy who’s supposed to do the pied piper thing. Maybe hartley got too much credit but te coach is the spot for the true recruiters. Does he have national coverage also?

 

[gogeta4]

Excited to see kelly as a senior. Hope we can turn him.

re fields, i definitely am referring to his broader recruiting. Not complaining abojt te but see him as a guy who’s supposed to do the pied piper thing. Maybe hartley got too much credit but te coach is the spot for the true recruiters. Does he have national coverage also?

Field is our inner city Miami recruiter. So ill say he did GREAT last year. He also was the guy on Arroyo and Keyshawn Smith fromt he west coast.