The U Administration's commitment to Miami football...

[Consigliere]

You do realize that people/companies/trusts/foundations give money for very specific purposes, right? Like the $100 million gift from the Diabetes Research Institute Foundation? Your acting like people just write checks made payable to the University of Miami and tell them to spend it as they see fit. They are lawyers and contracts involved…

Maybe it is my fault. Maybe I don't explain myself well. I don't disagree with the above, my point is that Shalala is a fundraising machine. I'm very sure that we could have amended either campaign (Momentum 1 or 2) and made this more of a priority and gotten the money we need.

We're not some poor private school either like your false analogy. We do incredibly well (cough cough hospital bleeding) and we could have made this football program a bigger priority. This is my point. I don't believe this Admin has the made football the priority it needs to be. I'm not saying the highest priority either, I'm just saying a higher priority.

This really is a waste of time. We will never really see eye to eye. I guess you think everything is good with this Admin and that is your right.

 

[cf3000]

Agree with everything you said with a few exceptions. You don't hire the CFO of a failing company. In addition, you certainly don't weigh into account what the players want. They (players) are making an emotion-based decision, not one that is built on a foundation of fact, logic, and business acumen.
In addition, Golden hasn't been a failure to this point, but he also hasn't been a success. That said, I give him the benefit of the doubt because as big a Miami as I am, if I had a son he wouldn't have gone to Miami to play football during the investigation--too many uncertainties. Coach D is the other issue. Don't hire someone you can't fire. If the defense doesn't show dramatic improvement this year and Coach D isn't gone, then it's Golden's ***.

Who are you equating to the "CFO of a failing company?" At the time Coker was the O-coordinator of a very successful team...successful enough for Butch to be a highly-sought after coach by the NFL. While he wasn't considered a top candidate, again, it was already late in the offseason and most major coaching hires had already been made, so Coker was their choice (I personally wanted Schiano but Coker was just as qualified). Shannon while coaching for a team on the decline, was also widely considered to be a top defensive coach in the nation and an up-and-comer overall as a coach. So while his "company" was failing, he was actually the head of division within that company that was doing quite well. Looking at Shannon in hindsight it's easy to bash him, but at the time of his hire the view of him here and nationally was very different.

As for Golden, I agree he can't be called a success at this time, but again, way too early to call him a failure. This will be his first season with his own players and anything even resembling depth on the team. Meanwhile, he's done a very good job in other areas of managing the team. D'Onofrio, I'm not a fan of so far, but we'll get a better feel now that he's got some actual players. While I disagree with he and Golden sticking with a defensive scheme that didn't fit the existing talent, I can at least understand their thought process. They were looking to establish the type of defense and then recruit into it. Basically working for the future instead of the "win what we can now" mentality knowing that with the lack of talent and the NCAA mess, we aren't going to be winning any championships anyway. Again, I disagree with that but I do understand it. Now it's time for them to move the team forward, or yes, lose their jobs.

Was referring to Shannon. I wouldn't hire a guy that has zero head coaching experience and was the #2 guy. The fact that the players wanted him is completely irrelevant. They made that mistake with Coker and did it again with Shannon.

The major area that Golden has contradicted himself based on what you said is, "Players not plays". That was the most exciting thing he said upon arrival. Obviously, the thought there is that they are great talent evaluators and going to put players in a position to excel based on their strengths/weaknesses and not to try fit a square in a round hole. That hasn't happened.

MANY major, and successful, programs hire head coaches that didn't have head coaching experience. Hiring a top coordinator as a head coach is common practice. At the time Shannon was considered a top coordinator. Jimbo Fisher was a coordinator before FSU gave him the HC position. Charlie Strong was a coordinator before Louisville hired him as HC. There are many such examples out there. Again, bashing the administration in hindsight isn't quite fair, because at the time, it was not a bad hire.

Name all of the successful teams that hired the OC/DC from the same team as the head coach they just fired. Of course coordinators get hired for jobs all the time--good lord.
I'll patiently await your response as you do the research it takes to find them.

I can think of one. Technically Bobby was fired at FSU, Jimbo was the 'coach in waiting'. But, Jimbo never faced the problems we've had, and he has a public university with a great past who cares about having a winning team behind him.

 

[CyberCane]

You do realize that people/companies/trusts/foundations give money for very specific purposes, right? Like the $100 million gift from the Diabetes Research Institute Foundation? Your acting like people just write checks made payable to the University of Miami and tell them to spend it as they see fit. They are lawyers and contracts involved…

Maybe it is my fault. Maybe I don't explain myself well. I don't disagree with the above, my point is that Shalala is a fundraising machine. I'm very sure that we could have amended either campaign (Momentum 1 or 2) and made this more of a priority and gotten the money we need.

We're not some poor private school either like your false analogy. We do incredibly well (cough cough hospital bleeding) and we could have made this football program a bigger priority. This is my point. I don't believe this Admin has the made football the priority it needs to be. I'm not saying the highest priority either, I'm just saying a higher priority.

This really is a waste of time. We will never really see eye to eye. I guess you think everything is good with this Admin and that is your right.

Sort of a chicken **** way to end the discussion, but ok.

 

[CyberCane]

Who are you equating to the "CFO of a failing company?" At the time Coker was the O-coordinator of a very successful team...successful enough for Butch to be a highly-sought after coach by the NFL. While he wasn't considered a top candidate, again, it was already late in the offseason and most major coaching hires had already been made, so Coker was their choice (I personally wanted Schiano but Coker was just as qualified). Shannon while coaching for a team on the decline, was also widely considered to be a top defensive coach in the nation and an up-and-comer overall as a coach. So while his "company" was failing, he was actually the head of division within that company that was doing quite well. Looking at Shannon in hindsight it's easy to bash him, but at the time of his hire the view of him here and nationally was very different.

As for Golden, I agree he can't be called a success at this time, but again, way too early to call him a failure. This will be his first season with his own players and anything even resembling depth on the team. Meanwhile, he's done a very good job in other areas of managing the team. D'Onofrio, I'm not a fan of so far, but we'll get a better feel now that he's got some actual players. While I disagree with he and Golden sticking with a defensive scheme that didn't fit the existing talent, I can at least understand their thought process. They were looking to establish the type of defense and then recruit into it. Basically working for the future instead of the "win what we can now" mentality knowing that with the lack of talent and the NCAA mess, we aren't going to be winning any championships anyway. Again, I disagree with that but I do understand it. Now it's time for them to move the team forward, or yes, lose their jobs.

Was referring to Shannon. I wouldn't hire a guy that has zero head coaching experience and was the #2 guy. The fact that the players wanted him is completely irrelevant. They made that mistake with Coker and did it again with Shannon.

The major area that Golden has contradicted himself based on what you said is, "Players not plays". That was the most exciting thing he said upon arrival. Obviously, the thought there is that they are great talent evaluators and going to put players in a position to excel based on their strengths/weaknesses and not to try fit a square in a round hole. That hasn't happened.

MANY major, and successful, programs hire head coaches that didn't have head coaching experience. Hiring a top coordinator as a head coach is common practice. At the time Shannon was considered a top coordinator. Jimbo Fisher was a coordinator before FSU gave him the HC position. Charlie Strong was a coordinator before Louisville hired him as HC. There are many such examples out there. Again, bashing the administration in hindsight isn't quite fair, because at the time, it was not a bad hire.

Name all of the successful teams that hired the OC/DC from the same team as the head coach they just fired. Of course coordinators get hired for jobs all the time--good lord.
I'll patiently await your response as you do the research it takes to find them.

I can think of one. Technically Bobby was fired at FSU, Jimbo was the 'coach in waiting'. But, Jimbo never faced the problems we've had, and he has a public university with a great past who cares about having a winning team behind him.

That's a reach. Jimbo was brought in with a succession plan in place. Bobby had a long career and they wanted a nice hand off. That's a lot different than a coach getting fired.

 

[Consigliere]

..and given the situations at the time of each hiring, there was nothing wrong with the hires. Like I said before, Coker was hired when Butch left last minute after promising to stay. By then pretty much all of the major coaching candidates had already found other jobs. Shannon was considered a top DC and an up and coming coach, and given his UM ties, it wasn't a bad choice at the time. Unfortunately he turned out to be a terrible head coach. Golden was widely considered a young up and coming coach (and as far as I'm concerned the verdict on his is far from decided). So it's not like she hired ADs that made terrible decisions in hiring coaches.

Coker I don't complain about (just the extension). Quite often schools hire the successful coordinator at a successful school (Miami under Butch).

[We should have learned here the risk involved in hiring a coordinator without HC experience]

Schools normally don't hire the green coordinator from an unsuccessful regime. Regardless of Shannon's success as a DC, it made little sense given that we fired the HC. The other problem is why did we give this guy an extension? Another terrible decision.

As for Golden, on paper it made sense. I don't complain about the initial hiring. Was it my first choice, nope. He showed promise, he had HC experience, he had success and a terrible school.

As for the ADs we look back on everything and we learn the following:

1. Frank Haith

2. Coker (extension)

3. Shannon (and the extension)

4. Jim Morris (extension)

--------------------

I consider Coach L the best hiring we have done under her regime and it is not even close. Even if I consider AG an incomplete. 4 out of 6 were terrible. 1 is an incomplete.

 

[Consigliere]

Sort of a chicken **** way to end the discussion, but ok.

I didn't end it. We disagree. I just thought it was pointless to continue.

 

[cf3000]

Was referring to Shannon. I wouldn't hire a guy that has zero head coaching experience and was the #2 guy. The fact that the players wanted him is completely irrelevant. They made that mistake with Coker and did it again with Shannon.

The major area that Golden has contradicted himself based on what you said is, "Players not plays". That was the most exciting thing he said upon arrival. Obviously, the thought there is that they are great talent evaluators and going to put players in a position to excel based on their strengths/weaknesses and not to try fit a square in a round hole. That hasn't happened.

MANY major, and successful, programs hire head coaches that didn't have head coaching experience. Hiring a top coordinator as a head coach is common practice. At the time Shannon was considered a top coordinator. Jimbo Fisher was a coordinator before FSU gave him the HC position. Charlie Strong was a coordinator before Louisville hired him as HC. There are many such examples out there. Again, bashing the administration in hindsight isn't quite fair, because at the time, it was not a bad hire.

Name all of the successful teams that hired the OC/DC from the same team as the head coach they just fired. Of course coordinators get hired for jobs all the time--good lord.
I'll patiently await your response as you do the research it takes to find them.

I can think of one. Technically Bobby was fired at FSU, Jimbo was the 'coach in waiting'. But, Jimbo never faced the problems we've had, and he has a public university with a great past who cares about having a winning team behind him.

That's a reach. Jimbo was brought in with a succession plan in place. Bobby had a long career and they wanted a nice hand off. That's a lot different than a coach getting fired.

Oh, of course, but FSU was the only one I can think of that comes even close to the 'coach fired, assistant hired' scenario. And I really think Bobby was fired. They were just very nice about it.

 

[cf3000]

..and given the situations at the time of each hiring, there was nothing wrong with the hires. Like I said before, Coker was hired when Butch left last minute after promising to stay. By then pretty much all of the major coaching candidates had already found other jobs. Shannon was considered a top DC and an up and coming coach, and given his UM ties, it wasn't a bad choice at the time. Unfortunately he turned out to be a terrible head coach. Golden was widely considered a young up and coming coach (and as far as I'm concerned the verdict on his is far from decided). So it's not like she hired ADs that made terrible decisions in hiring coaches.

Coker I don't complain about (just the extension). Quite often schools hire the successful coordinator at a successful school (Miami under Butch).

[We should have learned here the risk involved in hiring a coordinator without HC experience]

Schools normally don't hire the green coordinator from an unsuccessful regime. Regardless of Shannon's success as a DC, it made little sense given that we fired the HC. The other problem is why did we give this guy an extension? Another terrible decision.

As for Golden, on paper it made sense. I don't complain about the initial hiring. Was it my first choice, nope. He showed promise, he had HC experience, he had success and a terrible school.

As for the ADs we look back on everything and we learn the following:

1. Frank Haith

2. Coker (extension)

3. Shannon (and the extension)

4. Jim Morris (extension)

--------------------

I consider Coach L the best hiring we have done under her regime and it is not even close. Even if I consider AG an incomplete. 4 out of 6 were terrible. 1 is an incomplete.

And didn't coach L fall into our laps? iirc, he contacted UM.

 

[NMB Cane]

Who are you equating to the "CFO of a failing company?" At the time Coker was the O-coordinator of a very successful team...successful enough for Butch to be a highly-sought after coach by the NFL. While he wasn't considered a top candidate, again, it was already late in the offseason and most major coaching hires had already been made, so Coker was their choice (I personally wanted Schiano but Coker was just as qualified). Shannon while coaching for a team on the decline, was also widely considered to be a top defensive coach in the nation and an up-and-comer overall as a coach. So while his "company" was failing, he was actually the head of division within that company that was doing quite well. Looking at Shannon in hindsight it's easy to bash him, but at the time of his hire the view of him here and nationally was very different.

As for Golden, I agree he can't be called a success at this time, but again, way too early to call him a failure. This will be his first season with his own players and anything even resembling depth on the team. Meanwhile, he's done a very good job in other areas of managing the team. D'Onofrio, I'm not a fan of so far, but we'll get a better feel now that he's got some actual players. While I disagree with he and Golden sticking with a defensive scheme that didn't fit the existing talent, I can at least understand their thought process. They were looking to establish the type of defense and then recruit into it. Basically working for the future instead of the "win what we can now" mentality knowing that with the lack of talent and the NCAA mess, we aren't going to be winning any championships anyway. Again, I disagree with that but I do understand it. Now it's time for them to move the team forward, or yes, lose their jobs.

Was referring to Shannon. I wouldn't hire a guy that has zero head coaching experience and was the #2 guy. The fact that the players wanted him is completely irrelevant. They made that mistake with Coker and did it again with Shannon.

The major area that Golden has contradicted himself based on what you said is, "Players not plays". That was the most exciting thing he said upon arrival. Obviously, the thought there is that they are great talent evaluators and going to put players in a position to excel based on their strengths/weaknesses and not to try fit a square in a round hole. That hasn't happened.

MANY major, and successful, programs hire head coaches that didn't have head coaching experience. Hiring a top coordinator as a head coach is common practice. At the time Shannon was considered a top coordinator. Jimbo Fisher was a coordinator before FSU gave him the HC position. Charlie Strong was a coordinator before Louisville hired him as HC. There are many such examples out there. Again, bashing the administration in hindsight isn't quite fair, because at the time, it was not a bad hire.

Name all of the successful teams that hired the OC/DC from the same team as the head coach they just fired. Of course coordinators get hired for jobs all the time--good lord.
I'll patiently await your response as you do the research it takes to find them.

Name how often a team with a fired head coach also has a coordinator that is widely considered one of the top coordinators and an up-and-coming coach? Again, hindsight is great, but at the time Shannon was a very highly-regarded coach.

There wasn't any interest from a major program to hire Shannon. Texas was interested in doubling his salary to be a DC. It's just not a common practice from elite programs to promote leftovers from a failed regime.

 

[whoopingcane]

Consigliere, report to the nearest ATM for immediate deactivation of your CaneCard.

 

[cf3000]

There wasn't any interest from a major program to hire Shannon. Texas was interested in doubling his salary to be a DC. It's just not a common practice from elite programs to promote leftovers from a failed regime.

I think for the 2000's we were negotiating against ourselves concerning head coach contract extensions.

 

[niner]

this canecard thing really got to buddy

 

[NMB Cane]

There wasn't any interest from a major program to hire Shannon. Texas was interested in doubling his salary to be a DC. It's just not a common practice from elite programs to promote leftovers from a failed regime.

I think for the 2000's we were negotiating against ourselves concerning head coach contract extensions.

Without question. Dee simply extended Coker because it was the "safe" route and path of least resistance. The troll used Chuck Ninas to validate her desire to hire Randy rather than the smoke and mirrors "search" they paid him 50K for.

 

[whoopingcane]

this canecard thing really got to buddy

Easy for you to say, yours is active. Try having a deactivated one. It's not very much fun.

 

[dk72]

Was referring to Shannon. I wouldn't hire a guy that has zero head coaching experience and was the #2 guy. The fact that the players wanted him is completely irrelevant. They made that mistake with Coker and did it again with Shannon.

The major area that Golden has contradicted himself based on what you said is, "Players not plays". That was the most exciting thing he said upon arrival. Obviously, the thought there is that they are great talent evaluators and going to put players in a position to excel based on their strengths/weaknesses and not to try fit a square in a round hole. That hasn't happened.

MANY major, and successful, programs hire head coaches that didn't have head coaching experience. Hiring a top coordinator as a head coach is common practice. At the time Shannon was considered a top coordinator. Jimbo Fisher was a coordinator before FSU gave him the HC position. Charlie Strong was a coordinator before Louisville hired him as HC. There are many such examples out there. Again, bashing the administration in hindsight isn't quite fair, because at the time, it was not a bad hire.

Name all of the successful teams that hired the OC/DC from the same team as the head coach they just fired. Of course coordinators get hired for jobs all the time--good lord.
I'll patiently await your response as you do the research it takes to find them.

Name how often a team with a fired head coach also has a coordinator that is widely considered one of the top coordinators and an up-and-coming coach? Again, hindsight is great, but at the time Shannon was a very highly-regarded coach.

Didn't think you could name any. We did it two hires in a row.

Don't feel like taking the time to look it up. Frankly it's irrelevant. Had we hired a top-notch DC from another team and named him head coach what would have been the difference? Shannon was one of the highest-regarded DCs at the time. The Coker hire was primarily due to the fact that there weren't many options left thanks to the last second departure of Butch after publicly promising to stay.

 

[bomb]

You do realize that people/companies/trusts/foundations give money for very specific purposes, right? Like the $100 million gift from the Diabetes Research Institute Foundation? Your acting like people just write checks made payable to the University of Miami and tell them to spend it as they see fit. They are lawyers and contracts involved…

Maybe it is my fault. Maybe I don't explain myself well. I don't disagree with the above, my point is that Shalala is a fundraising machine. I'm very sure that we could have amended either campaign (Momentum 1 or 2) and made this more of a priority and gotten the money we need.

We're not some poor private school either like your false analogy. We do incredibly well (cough cough hospital bleeding) and we could have made this football program a bigger priority. This is my point. I don't believe this Admin has the made football the priority it needs to be. I'm not saying the highest priority either, I'm just saying a higher priority.

This really is a waste of time. We will never really see eye to eye. I guess you think everything is good with this Admin and that is your right.

But I think our point, is that she has raised a ton more money than any one, two, or probably three Pres' combined. Someone said Tad Foote? Are you ******* kidding? We won in spite of him. He wanted to get rid of football!!

Now its that she didn't do it soon enough? Its not like you just decide to raise money and its there the next day. One year in she assigned a top fundraiser to the AD. One year in. And what a job he had. Think it was easy to raise $ during the RS years? Or since day 1 of the Nevin ****? The fact that all this money got raised, and all these capital improvements have been made, in SPITE of these very trying circumstances is even more impressive.

So much ignorance to how things work. She got the ******* Schwartz', a family that basically has NOTHING to do with the U, to make the largest football donation we've ever received. That's how hard it is. She had to go outside the family, because we all ******* suck that bad. Oh, you actually had to pay for your game tickets. Boo hoo. Hey, thanks big spender. At UF they have to pay $2k for the right to MAYBE be able to BUY tix. And they give MORE. Everywhere but here.

And if another person talks about how much money she raised for Med or academics... jesus christ. Large gifts are ******* EARMARKED. Most large gifts go to medicine. You're in your 60's, you've made many millions, and you want to leave a legacy gift... you're probably more interested in curing cancer or child blindness than building whirlpools for 19 year old future NFL millionaires. Yeah, I ******* wish we had a Boone Pickens or two. We all do. But we don't. We don't even have a Schwartz. We just had a President and AD that was good enough to go take someone else's.

 

[whoopingcane]

$30 Million is a popcorn fart.

 

[whoopingcane]

Here you go, take it.

 

[CyberCane]

MANY major, and successful, programs hire head coaches that didn't have head coaching experience. Hiring a top coordinator as a head coach is common practice. At the time Shannon was considered a top coordinator. Jimbo Fisher was a coordinator before FSU gave him the HC position. Charlie Strong was a coordinator before Louisville hired him as HC. There are many such examples out there. Again, bashing the administration in hindsight isn't quite fair, because at the time, it was not a bad hire.

Name all of the successful teams that hired the OC/DC from the same team as the head coach they just fired. Of course coordinators get hired for jobs all the time--good lord.
I'll patiently await your response as you do the research it takes to find them.

Name how often a team with a fired head coach also has a coordinator that is widely considered one of the top coordinators and an up-and-coming coach? Again, hindsight is great, but at the time Shannon was a very highly-regarded coach.

Didn't think you could name any. We did it two hires in a row.

Don't feel like taking the time to look it up. Frankly it's irrelevant. Had we hired a top-notch DC from another team and named him head coach what would have been the difference? Shannon was one of the highest-regarded DCs at the time. The Coker hire was primarily due to the fact that there weren't many options left thanks to the last second departure of Butch after publicly promising to stay.

Hiring a coordinator from a team who's coach was fired, especially when said DC/OC has zero head coaching experience, is high risk. Until you prove otherwise, history says I'm right. If you're then going to make a hindsight argument, I'd say when was it ever done prior to the Shannon hire?

 

[whoopingcane]

Technically, Butch was actually fired. Paul Dee did not accept his resignation.

So, Miami did it twice in a row. There's your precedent.