The Past Decade: Revealed

[BWCD]

You're basically dismissing the importance of games in Omaha, and you're just "happy to get there". Pretty disingenuous on your part if that's the case.

The 'happy to be there' lie has been repeated over and over. It's no less of a lie now then it was the first 10 times.

I'm simply saying that expectations should be no higher than getting to Omaha. The results once there have proven to be (over and over) a crap-shoot.

If your standard is Final 4 or Championship Series you're basically demanding that Jim Morris be lucky.

Well-managed teams shouldn't rely on luck. They should be set up, focused, and ready to deliver. We haven't done that.

While the baseball postseason takes a modicum of luck (I will give you that), if you have a talented, solid squad like we did - you should deliver on the big stage. You don't play your butts off in the regular season and regionals/supers to just lay an egg in Omaha.

Let me ask you this - what if we got to Omaha for the next 10 years, and we had an average record of say 1-2 in those 10 years. Is that a successful tenure? If you're a Buffalo Bills fan, sure. Eventually, getting there isn't enough...and at a program like Miami, getting to Omaha is a great accomplishment...but we need to start getting there and at least making a deep run.

1-4 in our last 2 appearances isn't good, no matter how you slice it or try to justify it.

Since you like to toss around words like unreasonable and delusional...if you can't at least agree to that previous sentence, then you're either one or both of unreasonable/delusional.

 

[Zbrod95]

Are you saying that these games in Omaha are not any more important than say an opening series in February against Buttgers?

No. Of course not.

What I'm saying is that there are more variables in baseball than any other sport. The game is colder and more probabilistic too. You can't 'play harder' in bigger games. In fact many times in baseball 'playing harder' is a detriment.

In any one game (or tournament) a manager can only choose his pitcher and set his lineup. Pretty much everything else is beholden to those variables.

Seems to me that all of that is up to the manager to attempt to control/minimize as many of those variables as possible, try to work them to his advantage, even if it means doing something unorthodox. Morris does a great job of it in the regular season for the most part. Not so much in Omaha. That's not an irrational knock on him, it's simply a trend that's observable.

But still...you do realize how it sounds to the rest of us when you keep repeating that we're upset about "only/just" 4 games in Omaha in 2 seasons. It makes it seem like you're dismissing bigger games as being just as important as the regular ones.

Also - it's on the manager to manage the mindset of the team. If you know your guys are pressing too hard - do something to loosen them up. If they're too loose - smack them up side the head and tell them to focus. Those things are within the manager's purview.

If you think Michael Mediavilla's performance in Omaha was a coaching or managing issue then you're just delusional.

I don't think anyone's said that in the history of ever. Mediavilla's outing was pure butterflies, and just an implosion early on his part. That's on the player. So...I'm not delusional.

And for as bad as the ump's strikezone was against Zona, it's up to managers/coaches to make sure they know how that's going to be called, and help his players adjust accordingly. The total strikeouts and especially the looking K's are on that adjustment not being made. Sure, the kids have to swing the bat...but the manager has to give them the greenlight to be more aggressive out of their normal strikezone.

It's nuanced things like this that Morris could have done to make a difference, but didn't. We stuck to the strategy of working the count in hopes of running up the pitch count and then unloading a big inning on their starter. It didn't work.

Also...if these were 3-2 or 2-1 losses, I wouldn't be as upset about it. It's losing like we did last year 2x to the Gheytors, plus looking very much unlike the team we were in the Regionals/Supers once we got to Omaha. Or...really...we looked a lot like the "good" team that got to Omaha - Zona and UCSB just had us figured out, and they were more aggressive in taking advantage of it.

FYI I said the same thing but apparently in his mind it takes longer than 2-3 innings to learn that the strike zone is 4 inches off the plate on both sides

 

[CTCANE]

Im officially on jagrs side, well i always was on it jus liked messing with him, yall cant support this coach with these last two omaha showings im sorry you cant

So you can't support a coach because of four games over two seasons?

Sorry but just because you employ silly logic doesn't mean that I have to.

Silly logic? The guy hasnt won anything since 2001, we went to omaha these last 2 season and have been embarrassed by teams, especially last years team with all that offense and we were silent, morris needs to go

Morris is retiring after the 2018. You're wasting your time with your whining.

Whos whining? Im just stating how i feel about the subject, but if you call it whining then you must be biggest whiner here

It is hard for me to take you seriously. The team has been in the CWS the last 2 years. Only 3 teams have been there The team had a record of 50-14 this season. It has already been announced that DiMare is replacing Morris after the 2018 season.

 

[CTCANE]

You're basically dismissing the importance of games in Omaha, and you're just "happy to get there". Pretty disingenuous on your part if that's the case.

The 'happy to be there' lie has been repeated over and over. It's no less of a lie now then it was the first 10 times.

I'm simply saying that expectations should be no higher than getting to Omaha. The results once there have proven to be (over and over) a crap-shoot.

If your standard is Final 4 or Championship Series you're basically demanding that Jim Morris be lucky.

Well-managed teams shouldn't rely on luck. They should be set up, focused, and ready to deliver. We haven't done that.

While the baseball postseason takes a modicum of luck (I will give you that), if you have a talented, solid squad like we did - you should deliver on the big stage. You don't play your butts off in the regular season and regionals/supers to just lay an egg in Omaha.

Let me ask you this - what if we got to Omaha for the next 10 years, and we had an average record of say 1-2 in those 10 years. Is that a successful tenure? If you're a Buffalo Bills fan, sure. Eventually, getting there isn't enough...and at a program like Miami, getting to Omaha is a great accomplishment...but we need to start getting there and at least making a deep run.

1-4 in our last 2 appearances isn't good, no matter how you slice it or try to justify it.

Since you like to toss around words like unreasonable and delusional...if you can't at least agree to that previous sentence, then you're either one or both of unreasonable/delusional.

anything can happen in 1-2 games. Should UF get rid of their coach? They have gone 2 and out twice the past 5 years and have zero national championships. Of course they arent that would be stupid on their part.

 

[BWCD]

anything can happen in 1-2 games. Should UF get rid of their coach? They have gone 2 and out twice the past 5 years and have zero national championships. Of course they arent that would be stupid on their part.

I'm tired of this comparing to other programs bullsh1t. It's the equivalent of parents asking their kids "if so-and-so jumped off a bridge, would you do it"...which is just dumb. We aren't the Gheytors, we aren't UVGh@y, we aren't (insert non-Miami team here). We're ******* Miami. We're discussing what WE should do.

At Miami, losing the past 2 years at Omaha the way we have lost is not acceptable. 1-4 is not "anything can happen". For a team of our caliber who was a national seed both years, 1-4 is a disturbing (albeit small scale) trend, especially when compared to our success the 50+ games before that.

This is all a moot point in 2 years, unless Gino ends up being Morris-redux. If that's the case, and we continue to play great until we darken the doors of Omaha, then that's a continuing trend that none of us should be happy about. I'm glad we got there, but ****...I'd like to win more than 1 game when we do. Especially if we have 5 shots at it in 2 years.

 

[CTCANE]

anything can happen in 1-2 games. Should UF get rid of their coach? They have gone 2 and out twice the past 5 years and have zero national championships. Of course they arent that would be stupid on their part.

I'm tired of this comparing to other programs bullsh1t. It's the equivalent of parents asking their kids "if so-and-so jumped off a bridge, would you do it"...which is just dumb. We aren't the Gheytors, we aren't UVGh@y, we aren't (insert non-Miami team here). We're ******* Miami. We're discussing what WE should do.

At Miami, losing the past 2 years at Omaha the way we have lost is not acceptable. 1-4 is not "anything can happen". For a team of our caliber who was a national seed both years, 1-4 is a disturbing (albeit small scale) trend, especially when compared to our success the 50+ games before that.

This is all a moot point in 2 years, unless Gino ends up being Morris-redux. If that's the case, and we continue to play great until we darken the doors of Omaha, then that's a continuing trend that none of us should be happy about. I'm glad we got there, but ****...I'd like to win more than 1 game when we do. Especially if we have 5 shots at it in 2 years.

If people like you ran the athletic department, the department would go bankrupt. Getting rid of coaches who make it to the final 8 2 years in a row would be insane. It is "disturbing" to make it to Omaha two years in a row? Some of our fans are so dumb. Btw how many games did you go to this year and when was the last time you gave a dime to the athletic department? I'm guessing not recently, if ever.

 

[Brian Piccolo]

Learn your lesson and stop assuming

7,275 posts.

All incoherent.

 

[Brian Piccolo]

Seems to me that all of that is up to the manager to attempt to control/minimize as many of those variables as possible, try to work them to his advantage, even if it means doing something unorthodox.

He does and those kind of things are most evident during a long regular season and not a double elimination tournament.

 

[BWCD]

anything can happen in 1-2 games. Should UF get rid of their coach? They have gone 2 and out twice the past 5 years and have zero national championships. Of course they arent that would be stupid on their part.

I'm tired of this comparing to other programs bullsh1t. It's the equivalent of parents asking their kids "if so-and-so jumped off a bridge, would you do it"...which is just dumb. We aren't the Gheytors, we aren't UVGh@y, we aren't (insert non-Miami team here). We're ******* Miami. We're discussing what WE should do.

At Miami, losing the past 2 years at Omaha the way we have lost is not acceptable. 1-4 is not "anything can happen". For a team of our caliber who was a national seed both years, 1-4 is a disturbing (albeit small scale) trend, especially when compared to our success the 50+ games before that.

This is all a moot point in 2 years, unless Gino ends up being Morris-redux. If that's the case, and we continue to play great until we darken the doors of Omaha, then that's a continuing trend that none of us should be happy about. I'm glad we got there, but ****...I'd like to win more than 1 game when we do. Especially if we have 5 shots at it in 2 years.

If people like you ran the athletic department, the department would go bankrupt. Getting rid of coaches who make it to the final 8 2 years in a row would be insane. Itis disturbing to make it to Omaha two years in a row? Some of our fans are so dumb. Btw how many games did you go to this year and when was the ast time you gave a dime to the athletic department? I'm guessing not recently, if ever.

I make a good, rational point for discussion, you play the "ultimate fan card". Give me a freaking break.

I'm a Hurricane Club donor. I live up in VA, so no - I don't get to go to Mark Light Field every weekend in Winter/Spring/Summer to watch the team. Wish I could. I'd have season tix, and you can bet your *** on that. I go to at least 3-4 football games every year, mostly on the road, and try to go watch the baseball and basketball teams anytime I can up here in ACC country.

If that's not good enough for you superfan, I don't give a ****. Should I meet you in blue lot, bro? LMAO...

It's not that we got to Omaha that I'm upset about. You seem to let that slip past your synapses, somehow. It's how we play once we get there that I'm not a fan of. Put getting to Omaha aside, because I think we're all tickled about that to begin with. Please defend being 1-4 there in 2 straight seasons with a rational, cogent argument void of "anything can happen, blind-faith to Morris, and chest-thumping superfan emotion. I'll wait.

 

[BWCD]

Seems to me that all of that is up to the manager to attempt to control/minimize as many of those variables as possible, try to work them to his advantage, even if it means doing something unorthodox.

He does and those kind of things are most evident during a long regular season and not a double elimination tournament.

Problem is - the double elimination tournament is what we're paying Morris the big bucks for. That's where the brass ring is won or lost, period. All of the other achievements are nice, and I celebrate them too, but we can't keep downplaying Omaha like this. Your comment makes it sound like the "long regular season" is better to have success in than the "double elimination tournament"...never mind that the tournament is for the National Freaking Title.

So, again - the question is, why does it work during the regular season and regionals/supers, but not in Omaha? Is it bad luck? Is it that we overachieved all year and now we're at Omaha, so we get exposed? Is it mismanagement by Morris & Co. once we get to Omaha? All of that is up for debate.

 

[Brian Piccolo]

Morris does a great job of it in the regular season for the most part. Not so much in Omaha. That's not an irrational knock on him, it's simply a trend that's observable.

I wish people would understand how silly this analysis is.

They're all just baseball games. The smallest sample size played at a neutral site is the one where we struggle the most.

Over the last 2 years we've won 78% of our games in the regular season (114 games), 83% of our regional and super regional games (12 games) and 20% of our CWS games (5 games).

Somehow you think that the success we have in 96.2% of the games is completely separate from the last 3.8% and that there's something that the manager is doing wrong.

 

[capefearcane]

This thread started by banned JAG, start a new thread.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Brian Piccolo]

But still...you do realize how it sounds to the rest of us when you keep repeating that we're upset about "only/just" 4 games in Omaha in 2 seasons. It makes it seem like you're dismissing bigger games as being just as important as the regular ones.

I'm not concerned how it sounds. I find most analysis from fans to be irrational and short-sighted.

Postseason games have higher stakes than regular season games but they're both just baseball games. The same rules of probability apply to both. A good hitter is still going to fail 70% of the time. The best team is still going to win at a lower rate than any other team sport.

All the advantages the better team gets in the regular season are erased in Omaha. That's why the results are so random.

 

[Brian Piccolo]

Also - it's on the manager to manage the mindset of the team. If you know your guys are pressing too hard - do something to loosen them up. If they're too loose - smack them up side the head and tell them to focus. Those things are within the manager's purview.

You're assuming that these things weren't done. And then you're assuming that if they were done that the result would have been different!

Jim Morris might be the winningest active postseason coach in college baseball. He has proven methods. He's won a lot. There isn't a baseball game that he can't win.

All of this other stuff is just silly.

 

[Brian Piccolo]

Well-managed teams shouldn't rely on luck.

This is so ridiculous.

Nobody is relying on luck. It simply takes luck to win the whole thing. It's observable. Just watch the game tonight and tell me who's playing.

 

[BWCD]

They're all just baseball games. The smallest sample size played at a neutral site is the one where we struggle the most.

Woah!!! Now wait a minute, you said "No, of course not" earlier when I asked if you were comparing Omaha games to an regular season opening weekend series like Rutgers.

The test determined THAT was a lie. You can't have it both ways.

Again - you're lumping them all together like the ones at Omaha don't matter more (they simply do). 3.8% sounds small when that 3.8% is the difference in winning a National Title or not.

The more I read your numerical gymnastics, the more I think you don't want us to win a National Title at all.

 

[BWCD]

Also - it's on the manager to manage the mindset of the team. If you know your guys are pressing too hard - do something to loosen them up. If they're too loose - smack them up side the head and tell them to focus. Those things are within the manager's purview.

You're assuming that these things weren't done. And then you're assuming that if they were done that the result would have been different!

Maybe they weren't. You're assuming they were. And...maybe the result would have been different. But, we lost...so I can't prove a negative.

Jim Morris might be the winningest active postseason coach in college baseball. He has proven methods. He's won a lot. There isn't a baseball game that he can't win.

Agreed. There's also not a baseball game that you nor I couldn't win, but he's the manager of the Canes. When he gets the team to Omaha, 1-2 or 0-2 shouldn't be the expected result. But...that's been the result the past 2 years running. There's no defending that.

All of this other stuff is just silly.

Yes, all of your other Nathan Thurm-esque, nervous sweat, cigarette-ash-filled responses have been pretty silly.

 

[BWCD]

Well-managed teams shouldn't rely on luck.

This is so ridiculous.

Nobody is relying on luck. It simply takes luck to win the whole thing. It's observable. Just watch the game tonight and tell me who's playing.

I think we agree that luck is one of many elements for a team to win in Omaha.

However, shrugging your shoulders and mentioning luck when our results aren't good in Omaha isn't a rational, well-thought out argument. It's a copout - simple as that.

 

[Brian Piccolo]

Let me ask you this - what if we got to Omaha for the next 10 years, and we had an average record of say 1-2 in those 10 years. Is that a successful tenure?

Those seasons would be a success, yes. Of course 1-2 is a losing record. But I wouldn't just the entire season a failure because we didn't get any breaks or we pitched poorly in a couple of games, etc.

We went to Omaha 5 straight years from 1994-98. We went 9-9. We then went 8-0 in our next 8.

Keep getting there and if you're good enough you'll probably break through.

 

[Brian Piccolo]

However, shrugging your shoulders and mentioning luck when our results aren't good in Omaha isn't a rational, well-thought out argument. It's a copout - simple as that.

No. It's not. I have no control over the outcome.

I'm pretty certain we're better than both teams we lost to in Omaha. I can pretty well reason why we lost. Once that's resolved what else should I do? Whine about it?