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NBA The GOAT Case For Lebron: Playoff Performances

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E1k said:
I will never forgive lebron for that series…NEVER

But to define that series as him as player is just so bull**** lmao, the man has had a ***** million great series before and after that. Its a clear outlier, he ***** choked but the mf went to 8 straight finals afterwards some with a couple ***** mediocre teams with countless great performances and clutch moments.

This debate always ends with people discrediting an era while propping up another era lol, its a never ending thing because people cant be objective and dont really know **** about basketball and how it has evolved
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LeBron is an all time great, but you have to look at him at worst too. That game in itself should take him out of "GOAT" discussion IMO.

It's like Harden fans wanting to ignore him giving up on the court against the Spurs. These things happened and they should absolutely matter.

Can't remember Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, folding in their prime like that ever.

Those are the types of players he should be compared to, and you won't find an absolute dud of a performance in the finals from them in their career, much less their prime.

Also, I am 35, hardly an "old head." Growing up in a basketball family, I can tell you the game is not recognizable anymore (last 3-4 years in particular). Football changes look different, but the NBA product is unwatchable.
 
Return of the U said:
LeBron is an all time great, but you have to look at him at worst too. That game in itself should take him out of "GOAT" discussion IMO.

It's like Harden fans wanting to ignore him giving up on the court against the Spurs. These things happened and they should absolutely matter.

Can't remember Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, folding in their prime like that ever.

Those are the types of players he should be compared to, and you won't find an absolute dud of a performance in the finals from them in their career, much less their prime.

Also, I am 35, hardly an "old head." Growing up in a basketball family, I can tell you the game is not recognizable anymore (last 3-4 years in particular). Football changes look different, but the NBA product is unwatchable.
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Nah im not gonna pick one series out of a 20 year career where there are countless other great performances. Like i said ill never forgive him for it because dwade is my favorite player and he’d have a 4th ring and another fmvp lol, its an all time choke but for people to not pay attention to the level of player after is just hatin imo because that series is a clear outlier even for that year’s playoffs let alone his whole career

I think mj is the greatest but i look at everything objectively and lebron is right there, nobody has ever been this great for this long. Everyone should just appreciate both, i never hear any other great get questioned or nitpicked like this lol
 
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Return of the U said:
LeBron is an all time great, but you have to look at him at worst too. That game in itself should take him out of "GOAT" discussion IMO.

It's like Harden fans wanting to ignore him giving up on the court against the Spurs. These things happened and they should absolutely matter.

Can't remember Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, folding in their prime like that ever.

Those are the types of players he should be compared to, and you won't find an absolute dud of a performance in the finals from them in their career, much less their prime.

Also, I am 35, hardly an "old head." Growing up in a basketball family, I can tell you the game is not recognizable anymore (last 3-4 years in particular). Football changes look different, but the NBA product is unwatchable.
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When duncan, manu, parker retired the nba died.


Im 40 so like you im not some old head. Ive watched since i was a kid. The game has been ruined by selfishness.
 
E1k said:
Nah im not gonna pick one series out of a 20 year career where there are countless other great performances. Like i said ill never forgive him for it because dwade is my favorite player and he’d have a 4th ring and another fmvp lol, its an all time choke but for people to not pay attention to the level of player after is just hatin imo because that series is a clear outlier even for that year’s playoffs let alone his whole career

I think mj is the greatest but i look at everything objectively and lebron is right there, nobody has ever been this great for this long. Everyone should just appreciate both, i never hear any other great get questioned or nitpicked like this lol
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All time greats dont go 4 for 10 in finals series. Get swept in a series. Get almost swepr by a ancient spurs team. Get locked down by 6 foot JJ of the mavs. Get carried off the court with leg cramps. Refuse to enter the dunk contest. Have to create superteams to get a ring.


Lebron is the most athletically gifted but has no heart.
 
Cribby said:
You got to love the ego of you young cats lol. It’s still five on five , just with more spacing and the floor being stretched. They just chose the analytical route of its better to take more threes versus two’s. Wow , this is some super intelligent stuff.

Yes players are more skilled , because they’re starting younger , they have more camps and no matter your size you work on your handles and shot. They also had 100 years of basketball to pull from. The game has evolved but that hasn’t been my argument. My argument is the defense as a whole and effort is atrocious. Just because you find random HL’s doesn’t mean my comment is bs or has been proven wrong. I’ve watched and played the game for close to 40 years. So I know effort and when somebody doesn’t care about defense. I guess Kobe saying the exact same thing was bs too? Lol. Yes there’s guys like Smart who play d but I’m speaking as a whole, not the exception.

Fact is watching guys run down court shooting 60 threes a game on repeat with no defense / effort is a turn off. As I’ve said there’s a reason the ratings continue to plunge the last five years. On top of the product being bad you have star players sitting for “ rest “ or “ load management “ ******** fans . It’s the entire product not just on court.

I still enjoy CBB because it still resembles basketball.

It takes a lot to shock me but me saying defense / effort is terrible in the NBA being a hot take might be the most shocking yet lol. I’ve had this conversation with younger and older fans. Maybe you could be a delusional super fan more than me being a boomer.
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Last thing I’ll say here because we’re going to disagree on this all day. Ratings for the nba have decreased since the 90’s but have actually increased since the mid-2000’s. People make the same argument for the NFL ratings and I just laugh. If you want to have a conversation on ratings plummeting let’s talk about baseball. Don’t believe me here’s a source https://www.forbes.com/sites/briang...l-nba-and-other-major-sports/?sh=6a0b9305584f

Bigger picture, revenue drives sports and NBA revenue is through the roof. The NBA is truly the only players league. I don’t like guys resting and sitting out but I do love player longevity and stars playing for 15 years instead of 10 years. There are trade offs for everything in life. Slightly off topic but, the NBAPA has a done a marvelous job collective bargaining shifting the power into the hands of the players. The NBA is without question the best run American professional sports league.

I say all this to say. The league doesn’t need you to be a fan or me for that matter. It’s a global organization that will continue growing and evolving. Go sit down somewhere and watch something else if you don’t like it. I enjoyed the Heat/76ers game last night and there was plenty of defense being played. I stand by what I said your broad statements about defense are not indicative of the NBA in its entirety. Some teams play better defense than others and some players are better defenders than others. That’s always been the case and will never change.

Everything you’re saying can be applied to football as well. Has defensive effort in football decreased because teams are scoring more points and defenders can’t be as physical? Are you screaming at the top of hill that something is wrong with the game because teams are running more plays and passing the ball more because the analytics say to do so? You’re an eagles fan, are you ****ed off because the eagles went for on 4th down more than anyone in the league and back when you played 4th down was meant for kickers and punters? I can keep going but I’ll let you live 😂
 
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I don't like the argument of using revenue to prove a point for quality. It doesn't apply with movies, it doesn't apply with books, and it doesn't apply to sports. The NBA went international just like Hollywood with an adjusted formula.

I watch a lot of different men's basketball leagues (USA, Europe, Australia, Asian, high school, college). I also watch a lot of women's leagues (WNBA, NCAAW, International). There are many ways to play this sport and that's the cool thing about having all these leagues. If you don't like one style, don't watch it.
 
crossover22[]_[] said:
All time greats dont go 4 for 10 in finals series. Get swept in a series. Get almost swepr by a ancient spurs team. Get locked down by 6 foot JJ of the mavs. Get carried off the court with leg cramps. Refuse to enter the dunk contest. Have to create superteams to get a ring.


Lebron is the most athletically gifted but has no heart.
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It’s hilarious how people say this as if basketball isn’t a team game. His teams were the worse team in 4 or 5 of those finals, he performed well in all of them besides one or two.

He carried mediocre teams to the finals, would his legacy be stronger if he didn’t make the finals and lost in the earlier rounds like mj and kobe did? At his peak there was a guarantee you were in the finals.

And miss me with that no heart talk, you dont become that great with those expectations without having heart or a killa mentality. Thats just media/skip bayless talk
 
crossover22[]_[] said:
7 to 10.

Just being honest.
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Yea there’s no reason to have a debate with you on this, if you think there are 7 or 10 players better than lebron then you just are either delusional or a hater lmao and no its not an overreaction its just really stupid at this point
 
Mookie Blaylock
Rashard Lewis
Dominique Wilkins
Shawn Kemp
Tom Chambers
 
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E1k said:
Yea there’s no reason to have a debate with you on this, if you think there are 7 or 10 players better than lebron then you just are either delusional or a hater lmao and no its not an overreaction its just really stupid at this point
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The questions was: "If you were picking a starting 5 to represent the USA and you could pick any player in the past, who you got?". The assumption being that the games would be played with international rules (Olympic) and not the current NBA style/rules.

If Lebron is playing the 2 or 3, I wouldn't take him over Bird, Jordan, or Kobe. I could slip him into team 2, but I would rather roll with Duncan based on his win percentage. Perhaps you could remove Russell from Team 1 and replace Lebron there, but Lebron isn't a 4. I would not put Lebron ahead of Bird. How do you see it?

Team 1:
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Russell
Kareem

Team 2:
Isiah
Kobe
Duncan/Lebron
Wilt
Hakeem

Team 3:
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Lebron/Duncan
K. Malone
Shaq

Team 4:
Stockton
O. Robertson
Baylor
Barkley
D. Robinson

Left out: Durant, Curry, Garnett, Wade, AI
 
kendallcanes said:
The questions was: "If you were picking a starting 5 to represent the USA and you could pick any player in the past, who you got?". The assumption being that the games would be played with international rules (Olympic) and not the current NBA style/rules.

If Lebron is playing the 2 or 3, I wouldn't take him over Bird, Jordan, or Kobe. I could slip him into team 2, but I would rather roll with Duncan based on his win percentage. Perhaps you could remove Russell from Team 1 and replace Lebron there, but Lebron isn't a 4. I would not put Lebron ahead of Bird. How do you see it?

Team 1:
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Russell
Kareem

Team 2:
Isiah
Kobe
Duncan/Lebron
Wilt
Hakeem

Team 3:
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Lebron/Duncan
K. Malone
Shaq

Team 4:
Stockton
O. Robertson
Baylor
Barkley
D. Robinson

Left out: Durant, Curry, Garnett, Wade, AI
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I put lebron over bird don’t think its really debatable in my view, but i hold larry in high regard also. Kobe is 3rd on my all time list with a slight gap after mj and bron.

Id go if we’re kinda doing position less like 2 best bigs instead of traditional 4s then itll be different

Magic
MJ
Bron
Duncan
Kareem

Zeke
Kobe
Bird
Hakeem
Shaq

Steph
Dwade
KD
Russell
Wilt

Honorable mention: Big O, Dr J, KG/Dirk, West, Pippen
 
NBA late 80's early 90's was rough as ****. Lebron would whine after every game if he had to play then. Wait he already whines non stop. Bulls, Pistons, Lakers, Pacers, Cavaliers, Knicks all played at a physical level not seen today. No comparison Jordan GOAT
 
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Why he'll never be the GOAT in a gif:

Tell Lebron James GIF
 
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