The 4th and 9 play as an example of Route Issues

I have one question. This is a play where we called a timeout, then FSU called a time out after Walford motioned across the line. Do you think coley adjusted after FSU's timeout? Or did he run the same play. We'll probably never know, but I think we came out in the same formation and ran the same motion both times. It didn't seem like a good omen at the time...

I talked about that last night. No idea if we had the same call, but it was the same formation and alignment/motion. I think Coley got worked by his former boss. Whether he changed or not is a guess, but Jimbo saw something that allowed him to blanket our attempt. His best defender of the night was on our best player of the night. His Safeties literally did not move from their depth or alignment. No bueno.

This seems like a case of over thinking. Coley may have said to himself, Jimbo is expecting me to change things up, so I won't and catch him by surprise by running the same play. I have to believe, if he did not change the play, that it was something that he felt super comfortable with. He had a full 4 minutes to think about it....

The last play will always receive lots of criticism, more than needed, but it just didn't feel like a play that had a good opportunity for success. I need to go back a re-watch it, but Ii am more curious about the entire last drive. I know that if Yearby breaks a shoestring tackle on the draw, it likely goes for 8 or 9. I actually liked that call. It would be interesting to see if we left any opportunities out there on the last drive.....
 
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Honestly, In this situation, I would've like to see some sort of isolation for Herb Waters. Think about it, he had man coverage at the bottom of the screen with little safety help. We could have easily motioned Walford to the left and run him right in the middle of the defense to take the safety away and then have Waters run and in and up. Have Kaaya start by looking at Walford and then turn to Waters and throw it up for the win. Throwing at Ramsey gave us no chance IMO.

In your scenario, you'd have to design a way to get the LB (shadowing Duke) out of the play. If you run Duke into the flats in your same scenario, he's probably an even better option as that LB is chasing his *** off toward the sideline and Duke has all the room in the world to cutback.

Play design isn't as complicated as it's often made out to be. The initial question is always simple: "What would we do right now that would make the defense very uncomfortable?"

Bundling our two go-to receivers into a single area to give the defense a chance to cover 2 guys with many is probably low on that list. It was favor to FSU on this specific play.
 
I guess the moral of this is that our staff has potential (or else we wouldn't be in the game vs. a more talented team), but isn't quite there yet just like our team as a whole (i.e. Dobard fumble, missed kicks, missed tackles, batted balls, pass rush, etc.)

Are you serious with this? smh this is unbearable
Want to see the recruiting rankings?

lol excuses like this that are propped up as relevant are an embarrassment to read as a UM fan. Overall rankings has no baring on the talent gap between UM and FSU. On the actual field its easy to see that the talent "GAP" simply doesnt exist. Of course FSU has "more" talent but on the field at the same time no they dont.

FSU has more talent within their depth but aside Defensive Tackle, there is NO TALENT Gap. Do you think our coaching staff is special because we almost beat an FSU team who every other team almost beat? smh lets stop making excuses and believing bs and start thinking critically.
 
While this was James Coleys best game as our oc (by far imo, the first half was masterfully called), this perfectly shows my gripe with him. There are times when it seems like he over thinks things and ends up making things harder then they need to be. That hitch out combo with Coley and Walford is absolutely idiotic. Those 2 are being used in a way that isn't necessarily the best for them and even if Kaaya wanted to go there that route combo crowds everyone together. Also, and this could be blamed on Kaaya as well but, why would you try and attack Jalen Ramsey at the most critical part of the game? That play looked like it was designed to go to Dorsett. Ramsey on your primary + man under= check to something else.

Imo Lu is spot on in what they should have done. Only thing I'd do is go for Walford. Motion him to show man under and just let him work the middle of the field. No reason to complicate things at that moment, stick to your bread and butter.

Right now, 90% of the time, Kaaya is a rhythm passer. It's completely understandable. He's 19 and seeing a lot of things for the first time. We're really lucky he's as smooth as he is and has so many tools in place that, if the play design is strong, he'll simply execute it. In the future, I'd expect him to improvise on that play a bit. For now, I'm going to wonder for a while why we didn't adjust to their coverages in the second half and allowed them to dictate to us. I was waiting for Tucker in the flats pretty much the entire second half. It never came.

Some people think "aggressive" and immediately go to see whether we passed the ball or if we passed the ball downfield. I say "aggressive" and I'm talking about dictating to the defense. It doesn't have to be stretching them vertically. It means keep countering and stay in control of the flow. Hit the flats and stretch them out horizontally. Kill those LBs who were so vulnerable. I'll give Coley credit on one play that stood out in my mind: somewhere in the second half, we setup a play for Yearby to seemingly chip and release. He was *wide ******* open*, but the ball got batted down. That's credit to Coley and inexperience on Kaaya.

One problem Coley had was a rhythm passer out of rhythm.

I believe the Yearby play was on the first down of the last drive, but could be wrong. Was it followed by the Yearby one yarder forcing 3rd and 9?
 
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For what it's worth, I created all of this last night because I noticed some really nice things James Coley did with personnel groupings and design. Most of that was early in the game, however.

We have some problems with our route combinations and that's the point of this thread. I'm taking a single play that was called in the heat of the moment (I concede) and using it to further discussion about our issues with play design. Also, I've been on Golden for likely setting a poor tone of conservatism. I have to be fair, though: the way we attacked the field here was a head-scratcher, to say the least.

Here's the play in an image, as I broke down yesterday through text on this board:

View attachment 27319

Formation:
3 by 1 = Walford comes in motion across the formation and you have Walford, Dorsett and Coley to the far sideline. Herb Waters is the lone WR to the bottom of the screen. Already, I question what we're doing here because Herb is not our biggest speed threat and is least likely to garner significant attention from the Safety toward the bottom of the screen. If I'm playing Safety, this indicates to me that it's likely a pre-conceived pass to the right side of the field, so the field just got cut in half.

Route Combination(s):
Long time ago, we called the combination Walford-Dorsett used a "Flood" pattern. It's not the typical layered flood pattern you'll see where Walford would flare at 4-6, Dorsett would run an out at 10-12 and Coley (outside) would run a 9 route (vertical). That's usually done against Cover 3 and forces a decision on whether or not to sit by the CB. It looks more like this:

TRIPS+FLOOD.png


Instead, what we saw is a basic out pattern by Walford and a post over him by Dorsett.

- Herb at the bottom of the screen ran a quick in. Funny enough, you can see both outside corners literally have their backs turned to face their respective sidelines and force WRs outside. Exaggerated inside leverage by the Corners, and Herb literally ran right into his defender.
- Coley ran a weak sit down route to the sticks. Same coverage on him as described for Herb above.
- The route combination in the middle of the field is troubling for many reasons:

1. You have FSU's most disruptive DB (Ramsey) singling Dorsett AND showing it. What's more, he has significant help over the top from the Safety who literally never moved or was never threatened (as he would have by a Stacy Coley vertical route, for example).
2. If the idea is to clear the area for Walford, who is being obviously man'd up as his defender comes across the formation with him, why are you running him into a crowd? Walford is a good TE who will play in the NFL, but he's not the quickest guy out there, so he'd need a straight line (seam) pattern or a crossing route where he can gain steam. Further, again, why is Stacy Coley sitting down to that side of the field?

It's easy to critique after the fact, I realize, but that's what message boards are for and this was a questionable design from jump. Also, it'd be unfair for me to critique without offering what I'd have done:

View attachment 27320

Formation:
Balanced 4WR, motion Walford across and back to indicate, as it did, underneath man coverage.

Route Combination(s):

- First of all, if you're going to use Stacy Coley as a decoy, use his speed instead of sitting down as if he were Brandon Marshall. I'd have him at the bottom of the screen. I'd send him vertical.

- Second of all, as mentioned I'd motion Walford across and back to a balanced 2 by 2, 4WR set from the middle of the field. I'd send him on a seam or post. He'd take his underneath man coverage and the Safety on that side would have to stay over him and Coley.

- Most importantly, your best player during the game and most attention is going to go to #4. We even had fans in the stands saying the last play (even on 3rd and 9) would go to Dorsett. Use him. Leave him at the top of the screen in the slot. Send him vertical to the top corner. He'll take Ramsey and the attention of the Safety at the top of the screen.

- Place Herb Waters, who is sure-handed and good after the catch, at the very top of the screen. Jab step out and slant/cross the field at 6-8 yards. With obvious inside leverage, CB would have to switch his hips to chase him across the field.
- But, wait, what about the LB in the middle of the field? He's shadowing Duke Johnson. Duke chipping on a relatively quick-hitting play was, ultimately, pointless, but that's hindsight. Instead, we'd know he'd have attention, so send him into the bottom flats.

This wouldn't be a complicated read by Kaaya and I realize FSU would be bringing heat, so it's not a slow developing play (quick read in the flats, quick read across the middle on an intermediate cross):

He's essentially reading toward middle of the field (left, where Walford is) first. Based on what that combination of defenders does, and you have immediate vertical routes so it'll quickly show, you read Duke 1 on 1 in the flats and come back across to the middle of the field to Herb Waters who has had the field cleared for him by Dorsett.

But, who knows. At least we get to discuss it and see what it may or may not mean for us going forward.

Looked like this was designed for Dorsett to beat man coverage.
Walfords route says decoy
Unfortunately it was Ramsey on Dorsett but Kaaya didn't look anywhere else as if it was predetermined to go there.
I too would've liked a crossing route and getting Duke into a route.
 
I guess the moral of this is that our staff has potential (or else we wouldn't be in the game vs. a more talented team), but isn't quite there yet just like our team as a whole (i.e. Dobard fumble, missed kicks, missed tackles, batted balls, pass rush, etc.)

Are you serious with this? smh this is unbearable
Want to see the recruiting rankings?

lol excuses like this that are propped up as relevant are an embarrassment to read as a UM fan. Overall rankings has no baring on the talent gap between UM and FSU. On the actual field its easy to see that the talent "GAP" simply doesnt exist. Of course FSU has "more" talent but on the field at the same time no they dont.

FSU has more talent within their depth but aside Defensive Tackle, there is NO TALENT Gap. Do you think our coaching staff is special because we almost beat an FSU team who every other team almost beat? smh lets stop making excuses and believing bs and start thinking critically.

If you actually think critically, you would clearly see that F$U is vastly underachieving for their 'on paper' talent level. We are doing the same, but it's pretty much undeniable that F$U is much more talented on paper. They have enough talent to get them by and be undefeated, much like our 2001 team did, despite the obvious coaching deficiencies. Our current team is talented enough to be 6-4 with its obvious coaching deficiencies.
 
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I guess the moral of this is that our staff has potential (or else we wouldn't be in the game vs. a more talented team), but isn't quite there yet just like our team as a whole (i.e. Dobard fumble, missed kicks, missed tackles, batted balls, pass rush, etc.)

Are you serious with this? smh this is unbearable
Want to see the recruiting rankings?

lol excuses like this that are propped up as relevant are an embarrassment to read as a UM fan. Overall rankings has no baring on the talent gap between UM and FSU. On the actual field its easy to see that the talent "GAP" simply doesnt exist. Of course FSU has "more" talent but on the field at the same time no they dont.

FSU has more talent within their depth but aside Defensive Tackle, there is NO TALENT Gap. Do you think our coaching staff is special because we almost beat an FSU team who every other team almost beat? smh lets stop making excuses and believing bs and start thinking critically.

If you actually think critically, you would clearly see that F$U is vastly underachieving for their 'on paper' talent level. We are doing the same, but it's pretty much undeniable that F$U is much more talented on paper. They have enough talent to get them by and be undefeated, much like our 2001 team did, despite the obvious coaching deficiencies. Our current team is talented enough to be 6-4 with its obvious coaching deficiencies.

Smh sorry you think that way, I dont know what you look for when you see talent, but Miami has enough talent to go through this seasons schedule undefeated... we will never do something CRAZY like that because of our incompetent Head Coach.

Where is the GAP of talent between FSU and Miami besides defensive tackle? Please enlighten me by giving a position to position break down.

and all this bs about FSU "vastly underachieving" smh I see this board gets off on being over dramatic and exaggerate everything to make a point. FSU is undefeated, go ask Jimbo if his team is "vastly underachieving" smh
 
If Berrios as the slot receiver in this diagram cuts to angle across the middle instead of right doesn't this complicate it more for the corners, the safety, and the linebackers? My point is that Coley/Golden do not use the individual receiver skills speed/talent combinations in ways to optimize them?
 
I'm going with "someone ran the wrong route".

Unless FSU was in cover 0, there is no way that route combo makes any sense.

I wonder if S. Coley was supposed to come across, underneath the post/corner-out combo from Dorsett and Walford???
(same route Lu illustrates for WR Coley, but no changes to OC Coley's play design)

That would explain why Kaaya was looking to the middle of the field to make the throw, and would be consistent with how he would read the coverage, high to low.

The TE motion makes it clear it's, at least, man-under coverage. You let Walford and Dorsett clear the middle of the field, as both are the inside receivers ... Then throw to Coley coming across.

Waters sits wide, keeping his corner occupied and requiring some awareness from the other safety (depending on safety coverage). Dorsett is going deep, taking his cover and the safety ... Also keeping the other safety deeper if it's cover-2. That's 4 dbs covering 2 WRs. Walford runs the out (a 5th defender), and is the 2nd read if the safety to his side drops down to cover the middle, and doesn't stay high. Coley has to beat his man (6th defender) running the cross.

I think Kaaya read the safety coverage correctly, but expected Coley to come across the middle. I also think they needed the back to stay in because they knew the crossing read would take 6 in protection to give the time needed against 4 or 5 rushers.

If Coley runs that route, Walford is the 2nd read, depending on how they cover. But if the 7th defender (LB) drops to cover the middle cross, instead of spying the RB, Walford is likely the primary ... As long as Dorsett takes the safety to that side deep enough.

But because Coley never comes across ... and in fact, stays short enough and wide enough to render Walford's route useless ... Kaaya just chucks it downfield to Dorsett, and hopes for a completion similar to the UGA vs. Auburn finish last year.
 
I guess the moral of this is that our staff has potential (or else we wouldn't be in the game vs. a more talented team), but isn't quite there yet just like our team as a whole (i.e. Dobard fumble, missed kicks, missed tackles, batted balls, pass rush, etc.)

Are you serious with this? smh this is unbearable
Want to see the recruiting rankings?

lol excuses like this that are propped up as relevant are an embarrassment to read as a UM fan. Overall rankings has no baring on the talent gap between UM and FSU. On the actual field its easy to see that the talent "GAP" simply doesnt exist. Of course FSU has "more" talent but on the field at the same time no they dont.

FSU has more talent within their depth but aside Defensive Tackle, there is NO TALENT Gap. Do you think our coaching staff is special because we almost beat an FSU team who every other team almost beat? smh lets stop making excuses and believing bs and start thinking critically.
Yep, also 30 missing players due to arrests, injuries, transfers, etc. (EJ, Dewey, Paul, Terry, Figueroa, AQM, etc.) has no effect on the talent gap either. You're right, we are the most talented team since 2001 Miami.

For the record, these teams have a talent gap where it counts most (QB and DT). The fact that Golden has less talented players playing equal to FSU's more highly rated players is to his and the staff's credit. The bottom line is we only lost by four points WITH two missed high school kicks, the worst fumble I've ever seen, two dropped int's, and a dropped TD. Add that to two bad 15 yard "penalties" on FSU's last drive, a tipped pass TD, and O'Leary's potential fumble and we still had a chance with 3 minutes to go against the better team who is the defending National Champ and on a 26 game winning streak!!! I get that we are all so hungry for a huge win, but we are ALMOST there. The team and individual players are getting much better. So is the coaching staff...Stop looking for people to blame, we're just not quite there it's as simple as that.
 
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Threads like this just get me rustled, because when we need things to come together, we're always at a disadvantage. Did anybody think for a second we had a real chance of converting that 4th down? To me, the only hope was a broken play. I appreciate the breakdown, Lu.
 
Are you serious with this? smh this is unbearable
Want to see the recruiting rankings?

lol excuses like this that are propped up as relevant are an embarrassment to read as a UM fan. Overall rankings has no baring on the talent gap between UM and FSU. On the actual field its easy to see that the talent "GAP" simply doesnt exist. Of course FSU has "more" talent but on the field at the same time no they dont.

FSU has more talent within their depth but aside Defensive Tackle, there is NO TALENT Gap. Do you think our coaching staff is special because we almost beat an FSU team who every other team almost beat? smh lets stop making excuses and believing bs and start thinking critically.

If you actually think critically, you would clearly see that F$U is vastly underachieving for their 'on paper' talent level. We are doing the same, but it's pretty much undeniable that F$U is much more talented on paper. They have enough talent to get them by and be undefeated, much like our 2001 team did, despite the obvious coaching deficiencies. Our current team is talented enough to be 6-4 with its obvious coaching deficiencies.

Smh sorry you think that way, I dont know what you look for when you see talent, but Miami has enough talent to go through this seasons schedule undefeated... we will never do something CRAZY like that because of our incompetent Head Coach.

Where is the GAP of talent between FSU and Miami besides defensive tackle? Please enlighten me by giving a position to position break down.

and all this bs about FSU "vastly underachieving" smh I see this board gets off on being over dramatic and exaggerate everything to make a point. FSU is undefeated, go ask Jimbo if his team is "vastly underachieving" smh

His team should be blowing out everyone on the schedule, not struggling to beat ND, NC State, and us after falling behind big. The talent gap is right there for you, across the board. Look at the recruiting rankings of their players versus ours.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/02/ranking_the_rankers_revisiting.html

Good breakdown of the differences. You can complain and play internet tough guy all you want, but the fact is they have more talent than we do on paper. That doesn't mean our coaches are doing a good job with what they have. I maintain they aren't. But considering the schedule F$U has played, they are vastly underachieving their talent.
 
We are ranked 20, which is about right although we are missing about 30 players from those classes, so we'd really be around 25-40. I definitely think we are one of the 25-40 best teams in the country the last four games. That shows we are performing at about the level we should be. With recruiting getting better and us filling roster holes (DT, LB, WR) we should be getting better next year especially with Kaaya.
 
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I'm going with "someone ran the wrong route".

Unless FSU was in cover 0, there is no way that route combo makes any sense.

I wonder if S. Coley was supposed to come across, underneath the post/corner-out combo from Dorsett and Walford???
(same route Lu illustrates for WR Coley, but no changes to OC Coley's play design)

That would explain why Kaaya was looking to the middle of the field to make the throw, and would be consistent with how he would read the coverage, high to low.

The TE motion makes it clear it's, at least, man-under coverage. You let Walford and Dorsett clear the middle of the field, as both are the inside receivers ... Then throw to Coley coming across.

Waters sits wide, keeping his corner occupied and requiring some awareness from the other safety (depending on safety coverage). Dorsett is going deep, taking his cover and the safety ... Also keeping the other safety deeper if it's cover-2. That's 4 dbs covering 2 WRs. Walford runs the out (a 5th defender), and is the 2nd read if the safety to his side drops down to cover the middle, and doesn't stay high. Coley has to beat his man (6th defender) running the cross.

I think Kaaya read the safety coverage correctly, but expected Coley to come across the middle. I also think they needed the back to stay in because they knew the crossing read would take 6 in protection to give the time needed against 4 or 5 rushers.

If Coley runs that route, Walford is the 2nd read, depending on how they cover. But if the 7th defender (LB) drops to cover the middle cross, instead of spying the RB, Walford is likely the primary ... As long as Dorsett takes the safety to that side deep enough.

But because Coley never comes across ... and in fact, stays short enough and wide enough to render Walford's route useless ... Kaaya just chucks it downfield to Dorsett, and hopes for a completion similar to the UGA vs. Auburn finish last year.

I don't know, man. It's a risky leap to conclude that Stacy Coley just ran the wrong route and should have been coming across the middle. The reasons:

1. Walford still ran a relatively short out to the sticks. If Coley is supposed to come across, the routes should look a lot more like what I drew up in the 2nd picture.
2. They brought Duke across the formation to chip, meaning they moved the LB shadowing him closer to where Kaaya would have had to hit Coley coming across.
3. If you run a shallow or intermediate crossing route from one side, it's sensical to run a vertical route on the other side, where Waters ran a quick in. The reason would be to further clear the field for room to run.

I think it was just a poorly designed play and, frankly, it's not the first time we have some weird route combinations.
 
The first half was a thing of beauty, not sure Coley could've called a better game. The 2nd half we wanted to kill the clock with run game and weren't aggressive enough in the passing game.
 
I guess the moral of this is that our staff has potential (or else we wouldn't be in the game vs. a more talented team), but isn't quite there yet just like our team as a whole (i.e. Dobard fumble, missed kicks, missed tackles, batted balls, pass rush, etc.)

Are you serious with this? smh this is unbearable
Want to see the recruiting rankings?

lol excuses like this that are propped up as relevant are an embarrassment to read as a UM fan. Overall rankings has no baring on the talent gap between UM and FSU. On the actual field its easy to see that the talent "GAP" simply doesnt exist. Of course FSU has "more" talent but on the field at the same time no they dont.

FSU has more talent within their depth but aside Defensive Tackle, there is NO TALENT Gap. Do you think our coaching staff is special because we almost beat an FSU team who every other team almost beat? smh lets stop making excuses and believing bs and start thinking critically.
Yep, also 30 missing players due to arrests, injuries, transfers, etc. (EJ, Dewey, Paul, Terry, Figueroa, AQM, etc.) has no effect on the talent gap either. You're right, we are the most talented team since 2001 Miami.

For the record, these teams have a talent gap where it counts most (QB and DT). The fact that Golden has less talented players playing equal to FSU's more highly rated players is to his and the staff's credit. The bottom line is we only lost by four points WITH two missed high school kicks, the worst fumble I've ever seen, two dropped int's, and a dropped TD. Add that to two bad 15 yard "penalties" on FSU's last drive, a tipped pass TD, and O'Leary's potential fumble and we still had a chance with 3 minutes to go against the better team who is the defending National Champ and on a 26 game winning streak!!! I get that we are all so hungry for a huge win, but we are ALMOST there. The team and individual players are getting much better. So is the coaching staff...Stop looking for people to blame, we're just not quite there it's as simple as that.

I'm making this statement with the assumption that the 1st highlighted comment was sarcasm. So with that said do you think FSU currently is anywhere near as talented as Miami use to be in the early 2000s? If you do then there is no need to continue this debate with you.

to the second bold part please show me this "less talented vs Highly "rated" talent gap" you are speaking on. And who has Golden found from the gutters of recruiting rankings oblivion that he has playing at this level that i should give him and his staff credit?

Do you know who Duke Johnson, Joe Yearby, and Gus Edwards are? They were all considered highly rated recruits if you didnt.

Deon Bush, the one who made the plays on defense, I didnt know he was a walk on like Rudy? Oh he's "less talented" then who at FSU? Are you talking about the 3 star recruits Jimbo has balling at safety in Tyler Hunter and Nate Andews? Oh because Jalen Ramsey had an extra 5th star by his name but Deon Bush and Jamal Carter were just considered lowly nothing special 4 star talents, does that mean in real life to you that there is a big talent gap between them? lol

Like I said before Florida State has two 3 star players starting for them at safety, but you right Jimbo is playing with a deck of nothing but 5 star kids all over the field how can anyone compete!

They have 4 star PJ Williams and 5 star Ronald Darby starting at corner... Miami has two 4 star corners and one former 5 star in Tracy Howard, with a couple of very talented corners in Antonio Crawford and Ladarius Gunter. Does FSU overwhelm us at this postition?

Linebackers Florida States best linebacker is a 3 star from GA named Terrance Smith... its amazing that we even took the field against them, wow Golden. Reggie Northrup is a 4 star recruit no better than Jermaine Grace or Darrion Owens who are 4 star recruits as well, Matthew Thomas is a stud 5 star that has made little impact to date. Denzel Perryman has been better than FSUs best LB the last 3 years!

Like I said before DT is the ONLY spot where their is a significant talent gap between UM and FSU, even at DE Miami and FSU has around the same level of talent.

Its either you have a built in excuse for all things Al Golden or you just have an inferiority complex where you think another team just has you beat talent wise because of an overall ranking that doesnt explain the talent on the roster individually... please enlighten me though if you have something to show as proof of your claims.

/ its a miracle that we were able to compete against a loaded team like FSU in the 1st half like the rest of the lesser talented than Miami teams did as well, Thank you Golden smh
 
Want to see the recruiting rankings?

lol excuses like this that are propped up as relevant are an embarrassment to read as a UM fan. Overall rankings has no baring on the talent gap between UM and FSU. On the actual field its easy to see that the talent "GAP" simply doesnt exist. Of course FSU has "more" talent but on the field at the same time no they dont.

FSU has more talent within their depth but aside Defensive Tackle, there is NO TALENT Gap. Do you think our coaching staff is special because we almost beat an FSU team who every other team almost beat? smh lets stop making excuses and believing bs and start thinking critically.

If you actually think critically, you would clearly see that F$U is vastly underachieving for their 'on paper' talent level. We are doing the same, but it's pretty much undeniable that F$U is much more talented on paper. They have enough talent to get them by and be undefeated, much like our 2001 team did, despite the obvious coaching deficiencies. Our current team is talented enough to be 6-4 with its obvious coaching deficiencies.

Smh sorry you think that way, I dont know what you look for when you see talent, but Miami has enough talent to go through this seasons schedule undefeated... we will never do something CRAZY like that because of our incompetent Head Coach.

Where is the GAP of talent between FSU and Miami besides defensive tackle? Please enlighten me by giving a position to position break down.

and all this bs about FSU "vastly underachieving" smh I see this board gets off on being over dramatic and exaggerate everything to make a point. FSU is undefeated, go ask Jimbo if his team is "vastly underachieving" smh

His team should be blowing out everyone on the schedule, not struggling to beat ND, NC State, and us after falling behind big. The talent gap is right there for you, across the board. Look at the recruiting rankings of their players versus ours.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/02/ranking_the_rankers_revisiting.html

Good breakdown of the differences. You can complain and play internet tough guy all you want, but the fact is they have more talent than we do on paper. That doesn't mean our coaches are doing a good job with what they have. I maintain they aren't. But considering the schedule F$U has played, they are vastly underachieving their talent.

so they are vastly underachieving their talent as the #1 team in the country currently in both polls? is something wrong with you? Just because a bunch of freshman came in over the off season highly recruited, you think that means a young inexperienced team like FSU is suppose to blow out teams like they did last year, every year? seriously is something wrong with you?

On paper smh terrible what does on paper mean? Bama lost to Ole Miss, are they vastly underachieving based on their talent? Auburn lost a couple what about them? or is it just because its FSU you like to make up things?

Do you even have a clue? Do you even understand that half of the recruiting rankings are based on quantity not quality? Do you think that because Miami's overall made up recruiting ranking based on that website is 20th between 2010-2013 that means UM's ceiling is 20th? like i said ppl like you who hold on to bs to make excuses like this are an embarrassment to me as a UM fan. smh
 
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