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Core Values said:
lauderdaleballer said:
Canesfan1899 said:
Calicanerepresent said:
IMO, he's better than Taylor Mays, as a comparison

great senior season in store for him, he knows whatup
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Taylor Mays was far better IMO. Didn't rack up a ton of INT's but was a big time hitter.
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I know I'm late but Taylor Mays was overrated in a finesse league... The kid was big... What made him a big hitter??? Running into Terrel Pryor... The guy was a combine freak... And thats it... We do know that Ray can play the run... Mays couldnt do that... he played with some stud Lb's and his d hid a lot of his flaws... Ray ray isnt that bad... He'll have a good year and I think he'll lead the team in tackles... He isnt one of our main issues...
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I hope your wrong because if RRA is leading us in tackles then its going to be a long season.

Also Mays wasn't a great player but he was better then RRA. Mays played well for 3 years and took a step by in his Senior year.
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he did???.....dude was very similar to ray ray production wise...playing on a BIG TIME defense in a not so good league (pac 10).....

I was calling Mays overrated from the time he jumped on the scene...he got overhyped on his looks, USC coaches hyping him, and i believe he had maybe 2 big hits...(and thats in a career)...

He missed alot of tackles ..couldnt cover worth a ****...very stiff...great straightline "trained" speed.
 
LOL at the Ray Ray apologists here and the "safeties are the least of our problems" bit. Ray Ray is essentially an undersized LB trying to play safety. That hasn't or isn't going to change. You put him in the box on a run play, and you might see a highlight hit. Any other play, and he's a liability, but apparently some seem to think that's not a problem.

He should have been a situational LB all along whose main job was to kill the carrier and get to the QB. That's it. He doesn't have the range/ speed to play safety well, and he certainly won't in the NFL if he doesn't in the ACC. That's just pure crazy talk.

Taylor Mays was Sean Taylor minus everything that made him a good football player. He was a combine freak who benefited from playing at USC and getting great media coverage. The dude just had no football talent though.

If our safety is leading the team in tackles, we are in for a God-awful year.
 
wushah said:
LOL at the Ray Ray apologists here and the "safeties are the least of our problems" bit. Ray Ray is essentially an undersized LB trying to play safety. That hasn't or isn't going to change. You put him in the box on a run play, and you might see a highlight hit. Any other play, and he's a liability, but apparently some seem to think that's not a problem.

He should have been a situational LB all along whose main job was to kill the carrier and get to the QB. That's it. He doesn't have the range/ speed to play safety well, and he certainly won't in the NFL if he doesn't in the ACC. That's just pure crazy talk.

Taylor Mays was Sean Taylor minus everything that made him a good football player. He was a combine freak who benefited from playing at USC and getting great media coverage. The dude just had no football talent though.

If our safety is leading the team in tackles, we are in for a God-awful year.
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the only thing sean taylor and taylor mays have in common is they both have "taylor " in their name.
 
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NJtoFLAcane said:
ive said it before.......ill be shocked if armstrong is still starting at mid season
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Who will take his position??? And like it or not he is one of our best players to stop the run... He is always around the ball... We over-exaggerate his flaws... Some of you better be careful what you ask for...
 
wushah said:
LOL at the Ray Ray apologists here and the "safeties are the least of our problems" bit. Ray Ray is essentially an undersized LB trying to play safety. That hasn't or isn't going to change. You put him in the box on a run play, and you might see a highlight hit. Any other play, and he's a liability, but apparently some seem to think that's not a problem.

He should have been a situational LB all along whose main job was to kill the carrier and get to the QB. That's it. He doesn't have the range/ speed to play safety well, and he certainly won't in the NFL if he doesn't in the ACC. That's just pure crazy talk.

Taylor Mays was Sean Taylor minus everything that made him a good football player. He was a combine freak who benefited from playing at USC and getting great media coverage. The dude just had no football talent though.

If our safety is leading the team in tackles, we are in for a God-awful year.
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He isnt as bad as you make him out to be... He isnt the best in pass coverage but he isnt a liability as you say... Thats an area of improvement but believe safety play isnt our biggest concern... We need to be aware of our front 7... Outside of Chick and Porter on the line and Perryman who will step up a great deal... We're young on D and I wouldnt be surprise to see us struggle and have our safety leading the team in tackles...
 
lauderdaleballer said:
NJtoFLAcane said:
ive said it before.......ill be shocked if armstrong is still starting at mid season
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Who will take his position??? And like it or not he is one of our best players to stop the run... He is always around the ball... We over-exaggerate his flaws... Some of you better be careful what you ask for...
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over exaggerate?

hes a LB playing saftey

and ill be shocked if hes still starting come mid season......he simply isnt very good
 
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NJtoFLAcane said:
lauderdaleballer said:
NJtoFLAcane said:
ive said it before.......ill be shocked if armstrong is still starting at mid season
Click to expand...

Who will take his position??? And like it or not he is one of our best players to stop the run... He is always around the ball... We over-exaggerate his flaws... Some of you better be careful what you ask for...
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over exaggerate?

hes a LB playing saftey

and ill be shocked if hes still starting come mid season......he simply isnt very good
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He isnt that bad... But who will replace him? Outside of you saying he isnt very good, who will replace him? We know he can play the run well... And he's always around the ball for the tackle... I think he is improving in pass coverage but still has his moments when he reacts slow and as Nights stated earlier from the few picks he has, he was in position where to catch a few more but dropped them... I think last year he took a step back with the suspensions so we couldnt tell because we were rarely tried deep... His biggest issue is consistency, but I dont think he's a liability as our board makes him... I think right now, he's going along the lines of Cmac, DVD, and Franklin where fans want to kill their own players... Outside a few plays I dont think our board can even point to him being a liability in coverage or just being a bad player...
 
Obviously, you're entrenched with your opinion and have conveniently excused him of his flaws. So regardless of the rebuttal, it won't matter bc your reasoning is that the suspension hurt him and that there isn't enough evidence to call him a liability.

Yet, interestingly enough, while there isn't enough evidence to say he's not that good bc of his shortened season, you somehow are able to say that he got better in pass coverage using the same lack of evidence. That's really a convenient way to debate a position. You can't have it both ways.

Also, asking us who we have instead of Ray Ray doesn't somehow make Ray Ray better. It just means that we don't have quality depth behind him or enough talent to unseat him.

He's not a terrible player. He's just out of position.
 
wushah said:
Obviously, you're entrenched with your opinion and have conveniently excused him of his flaws. So regardless of the rebuttal, it won't matter bc your reasoning is that the suspension hurt him and that there isn't enough evidence to call him a liability.

Yet, interestingly enough, while there isn't enough evidence to say he's not that good bc of his shortened season, you somehow are able to say that he got better in pass coverage using the same lack of evidence. That's really a convenient way to debate a position. You can't have it both ways.

Also, asking us who we have instead of Ray Ray doesn't somehow make Ray Ray better. It just means that we don't have quality depth behind him or enough talent to unseat him.

He's not a terrible player. He's just out of position.
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You're pretty much calling me stubborn because I have my opinion on the kid but what about you? I said he has some issues in coverage I admit to that... I never made any excuses for hs flaws... I mean you exaggerated his flaws but hey... I think he is progressing from when he first came here... He isnt the best in that area but I dont think he's the worst... Just give me some examples of what makes him terrible... I have seen guys with absolutely no pass coverage skills make at the next level... What makes him terrible or out of position? I think he can be successful at the safety position... I just want to know why he is a liability for our D? I think if some of you rewatch the games he has played, you'll see he isnt as bad as some of you make it out to be... I really believe that the safety position is the least of our worries... We need to be worried about our front 7...
 
Saying a 4th year player is better than when he came in is like saying that my **** has gotten larger since I was born. A player would have to be a complete imbecile to have achieved not one iota of improvement during their time at high-level CFB program. Cmon man.

Here's my take- the guy isn't a bad football player. He's just a tweener who is out of position at safety which explains why he's solid against the run but a liability in pass coverage. There are only a handful of guys his size who ever gone on to do things at safety. Show me five 6'4 safeties, either college or pro, who have ever amounted to anything. Sean Taylor was a freak of nature, and certainly we'll agree that he was more exception than the rule. Count him as one, and he was 6'3. This guy should have prayed that he could have become a 6'4, 240 lb wrecking ball of a LB. It just wasn't in the cards for him. He's not meant to be a safety.
 
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wushah said:
Saying a 4th year player is better than when he came in is like saying that my **** has gotten larger since I was born. A player would have to be a complete imbecile to have achieved not one iota of improvement during their time at high-level CFB program. Cmon man.

Here's my take- the guy isn't a bad football player. He's just a tweener who is out of position at safety which explains why he's solid against the run but a liability in pass coverage. There are only a handful of guys his size who ever gone on to do things at safety. Show me five 6'4 safeties, either college or pro, who have ever amounted to anything. Sean Taylor was a freak of nature, and certainly we'll agree that he was more exception than the rule. Count him as one, and he was 6'3. This guy should have prayed that he could have become a 6'4, 240 lb wrecking ball of a LB. It just wasn't in the cards for him. He's not meant to be a safety.
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Well I guess we'll agree to disagree... I seen progression in the kid and to an extent height has nothing to do with the kid... I'm not going to downplay the progression of a 4th year player... Knowing how much the sizes of these kids fluctuate I'll saythe kid is anywhere between 6'2-6'4... I think he can be inconsistent at times and that comes from just playing the position once he came to college... I don't think the kid is the best ever but I do feel he is one of the strenghts on our defense... Like I said out of all the positions on the defense we have other worries besides RR and VT... We have a young DL with a lot of unknowns as well as a young linebacking crew with some young corners... RR and VT are the least of our troubles...
 
lauderdaleballer said:
wushah said:
Saying a 4th year player is better than when he came in is like saying that my **** has gotten larger since I was born. A player would have to be a complete imbecile to have achieved not one iota of improvement during their time at high-level CFB program. Cmon man.

Here's my take- the guy isn't a bad football player. He's just a tweener who is out of position at safety which explains why he's solid against the run but a liability in pass coverage. There are only a handful of guys his size who ever gone on to do things at safety. Show me five 6'4 safeties, either college or pro, who have ever amounted to anything. Sean Taylor was a freak of nature, and certainly we'll agree that he was more exception than the rule. Count him as one, and he was 6'3. This guy should have prayed that he could have become a 6'4, 240 lb wrecking ball of a LB. It just wasn't in the cards for him. He's not meant to be a safety.
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Well I guess we'll agree to disagree... I seen progression in the kid and to an extent height has nothing to do with the kid... I'm not going to downplay the progression of a 4th year player... Knowing how much the sizes of these kids fluctuate I'll saythe kid is anywhere between 6'2-6'4... I think he can be inconsistent at times and that comes from just playing the position once he came to college... I don't think the kid is the best ever but I do feel he is one of the strenghts on our defense... Like I said out of all the positions on the defense we have other worries besides RR and VT... We have a young DL with a lot of unknowns as well as a young linebacking crew with some young corners... RR and VT are the least of our troubles...
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^^^^^^^^ completely agree.

RR and VT have their limitations...but WE know them...they have alot of experience and second yr in system will stop alot of the false steps and guessing games they dealt with last year.

Im more worried about our dline than anything on defense....dont think we have a legit pass rusher(outside of chick)....and our bell cow @ dt is a walking trip to urgent care.
 
lauderdaleballer said:
wushah said:
Saying a 4th year player is better than when he came in is like saying that my **** has gotten larger since I was born. A player would have to be a complete imbecile to have achieved not one iota of improvement during their time at high-level CFB program. Cmon man.

Here's my take- the guy isn't a bad football player. He's just a tweener who is out of position at safety which explains why he's solid against the run but a liability in pass coverage. There are only a handful of guys his size who ever gone on to do things at safety. Show me five 6'4 safeties, either college or pro, who have ever amounted to anything. Sean Taylor was a freak of nature, and certainly we'll agree that he was more exception than the rule. Count him as one, and he was 6'3. This guy should have prayed that he could have become a 6'4, 240 lb wrecking ball of a LB. It just wasn't in the cards for him. He's not meant to be a safety.
Click to expand...

Well I guess we'll agree to disagree... I seen progression in the kid and to an extent height has nothing to do with the kid... I'm not going to downplay the progression of a 4th year player... Knowing how much the sizes of these kids fluctuate I'll saythe kid is anywhere between 6'2-6'4... I think he can be inconsistent at times and that comes from just playing the position once he came to college... I don't think the kid is the best ever but I do feel he is one of the strenghts on our defense... Like I said out of all the positions on the defense we have other worries besides RR and VT... We have a young DL with a lot of unknowns as well as a young linebacking crew with some young corners... RR and VT are the least of our troubles...
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Which is not a testament to their steadiness, but proof that our defensive unit is broken.
 
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