Patrick Joyner

[Stylie]

I believe we will take 2 LB's.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Anybody else see a pass rusher when they look at Joyner? I don't see a backer at all. Was really surprised a few months ago when I heard Miami was trying to sell him on the prospect of playing backer. FSU is recruiting him to have his hand in the dirt. Can this kid play in space?

And yes, I know Diaz knows a lot more than I do. Save that narrative. Just strikes me as a little odd that, even in a down year at the position, the only LB we're wanting to take is a pretty big question mark at the position.

He has movement skills and length and Miami has seen him up close in a camp setting to verify. Not sure he has the frame to really but a hand in the ground pass rusher at the next level.

Not saying Diaz is wrong or anything, but seeing him play in space in a camp setting is way different than playing a traditional OLB position where you have to read OLineman (whether they come out run blocking or drop into pass pro) then locate the ball and shed a block from those big OLinemen, FB or TE. This does not happen in a camp setting.

Having to do that all in a split second is why most pass rush specialists have such a hard time adjusting to playing LB.

I have seen way too many great South FL pass rushing tweeners (too small to play DE, but perfect body and speed for LB, but no experience or instincts at the position) come in here and try to learn to play LB for 4 years never to make a significant enough impact to be holding up the scholarship from a real LB.

Think of all the greatest LBs to play here.

None were DEs in HS, and most were undersized at under 6'2 205 coming in (Lewis, Vilma, Spence, Perryman).

I would personally rather see us take Rosendo Louis if it is between him and Joyner.

I really want Sherwood in this class, but it seems like we are pretty much out of it at this point since he has his heart set on playing Safety.



Side Note: It is much easier for a Safety to transition to LB, than a DE b/c Safeties make similar reads and also have to play in space and cover.
DEs just rush into the backfield.

Good post. And generally I agree...but did you watch his film? He shows ability to play in space. He's not a "plug-n-play" kid at LB, but we won't need him to be. What he is, is a kid we have to get. Give him the looks at LB and take it from there.

Based on his film, I agree with Diaz. He can be an explosive and fast LB here.

Did John Square have the frame to put his hand on the ground? How much did he weigh? Not much more than 200, but he was quick and could get upfleid very fast.

Wasn't there a track guy, a little over 200 lbs that we made into a pass-rushing DE about ten or so years ago?

That was all before we brought in Golden and his passive defense.

John Square? LMAO Jesus Christ. Your contribution to the discussion on whether or not Joyner has the frame to play as an edge rusher is John Square? If Joyner has 5X of a better career than John Square, I hope he sticks with FSU.

 

[ILCane2011]

Sherwood is most likely going to Auburn. They're selling him on being able to exclusively play Safety, which is where he's said he wants to play.

 

[TheMatador]

He has movement skills and length and Miami has seen him up close in a camp setting to verify. Not sure he has the frame to really but a hand in the ground pass rusher at the next level.

Not saying Diaz is wrong or anything, but seeing him play in space in a camp setting is way different than playing a traditional OLB position where you have to read OLineman (whether they come out run blocking or drop into pass pro) then locate the ball and shed a block from those big OLinemen, FB or TE. This does not happen in a camp setting.

Having to do that all in a split second is why most pass rush specialists have such a hard time adjusting to playing LB.

I have seen way too many great South FL pass rushing tweeners (too small to play DE, but perfect body and speed for LB, but no experience or instincts at the position) come in here and try to learn to play LB for 4 years never to make a significant enough impact to be holding up the scholarship from a real LB.

Think of all the greatest LBs to play here.

None were DEs in HS, and most were undersized at under 6'2 205 coming in (Lewis, Vilma, Spence, Perryman).

I would personally rather see us take Rosendo Louis if it is between him and Joyner.

I really want Sherwood in this class, but it seems like we are pretty much out of it at this point since he has his heart set on playing Safety.



Side Note: It is much easier for a Safety to transition to LB, than a DE b/c Safeties make similar reads and also have to play in space and cover.
DEs just rush into the backfield.

Good post. And generally I agree...but did you watch his film? He shows ability to play in space. He's not a "plug-n-play" kid at LB, but we won't need him to be. What he is, is a kid we have to get. Give him the looks at LB and take it from there.

Based on his film, I agree with Diaz. He can be an explosive and fast LB here.

Did John Square have the frame to put his hand on the ground? How much did he weigh? Not much more than 200, but he was quick and could get upfleid very fast.

Wasn't there a track guy, a little over 200 lbs that we made into a pass-rushing DE about ten or so years ago?

That was all before we brought in Golden and his passive defense.

John Square? LMAO Jesus Christ. Your contribution to the discussion on whether or not Joyner has the frame to play as an edge rusher is John Square? If Joyner has 5X of a better career than John Square, I hope he sticks with FSU.

John Square WAS an edge rusher. He was a situational edge rusher who played quite a bit. Was he great? No. How many are? Did he contribute? Yes. And he did so as a very light and thin player. So, I don't know anything about Joyner. All I'm saying is that we've had edge rushers who were not big and played the position more for their quickness and ability to get upfield in certain situations. You might have forgotten that teams often substitute certain packages when they want to rush the passer. Perhaps the coaches see the same role for some of our recruits.

I don't know about Javon Nanton's frame, but he couldn't have been very big given that he was basically a track guy whom we could put in as a situational edge rusher. We did so not because of his size but because of his quickness and get off quickly into the backfield as a situational pass rusher. As I recall, Nanton was not a starter, but someone who came in for passing downs. Don't you think that coaches might recruit players who can be pass rush specialists even if not starters?

Javon Nanton - 2001 Football Roster - University of Miami Hurricanes