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OT:NBA regular season suspended

For_The_U said:
More sensational absolutism. You either believe this is the worst viral plague to hit mankind in modern times, it will wipe out first responders, overwhelm all hospitals, lead to suffering victims being treated in the streets, and 1% of the entire global population is going to perish... or you're Baghdad Bob. *sigh*
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yeah that's exactly what I said.. dumbass.
 
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MovingZen said:
yeah that's exactly what I said.. dumbass.
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You implied that people who arent in a frenzy of panic desire to "allow this thing to go unchecked". Your own words. Who is advocating for ignoring it entirely and allowing it to go unchecked? I haven't heard a single person push for that. This is definitional absolutism.

You lay out an apocolyptic scenario where the health care system is overwhelmed and unable to treat additional infected people in need as if it's an inevitability.

And then you label anyone who doesn't agree with you a Baghdad Bob. Hence, my response.
 
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RemainMack said:
absolutely. On average aging populations or those who are considered elderly are going to have a higher proportion of people who are immunocompromised simply because your biology obviously degraded so to speak as you age.

so it’s no surprise that rates (as of now) are higher in areas with a higher aging population and the majority of deaths in the USA are weighted in that original elderly facility as of this point.

that said, that is a very very loose definition of what immunocompromised means (‘being old’ means more biological issues with immmunity).

what is not known or being discussed are the hypothetical factors associated with being immunocompromised/comorbidities independent of age related factors.

per the pre existing health conditions the fatality rate among those with diabetes is 8% and we have roughly 26 million people with diabetes. Diabetes is also a way of classifying someone as immunocompromised and affects all ages. You have 18 percent of persons 45-64 in this country considered diabetic as per the cdc. This increases with the elderly but there is potential elevated risk in a younger demographic with a diagnosis of diabetes versus no diagnosis.

what about the 13% fatality rate among those with confirmed corona virus with a pre-existing health condition of cardiovascular disease? Many millions who are under 65 in this country (but as I said that is not just stroke, heart disease etc but a large proportion with high blood pressure) diagnosed with some form of cvd are also at elevated risk. Not just the elderly.

Finally there have been several papers (linked: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.25.20027664v1) already show increased risk of severe events with at least one comorbidity (another paper showed increased severe events among cancer patients) and show increased risk of severe events in comparison to those with no comorbidities (focusing on China).

In the linked paper they adjusted for age in their analyses and their significant hazard ratios for having at least one morbidity versus none or at least 2 comorbidities versus none increased with comorbidity (endpoint: enrolled in icu, ventilation, or death as primary outcome). So basically severe outcomes independent of age showed clear increased risk of poor outcomes (again not just death).

These issues associated with comorbidities is at this stage are preliminary but should be taken very seriously.

now whether society should completely shut down etc is another story and obviously debatable. But there are some initial signals (coupled with quick spread) that are concerning.
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Finally a reasoned argument.
 
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Empirical Cane said:
They get very nervous at the Tropical Storm stage.
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ShadowSpring said:
For such a brilliant self proclaimed message board intellectual, I'm surprised it didn't occur to you the entire point of steps like this are to stop the spread of the virus. So if these steps are indeed successful and the virus does down, it could be said these were well reasoned steps.

Hmm.
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This is the typical cycle that people use to claim "hoaxes" and "media hype".

We have a problem. We take precautions. Precautions work and the problem is not as bad as it could have been. Dum-dums claim that the problem was never as bad as it was claimed to be. Dum-dums conclude that problem was "over-hyped".

Repeat.

It will never stop. Until the day that the Stupidovirus comes around, a virus that only infects less intelligent people.
 
For_The_U said:
You implied that people who arent in a panic desire to "allow this thing to go unchecked". Your own words. Who is advocating for ignoring it entirely and allowing it to go unchecked? I haven't heard a single person push for that, and the entire world is literally doing the exact opposite.

You lay out apocolyptic scenarios where the health care system is overwhelmed and unable to treat additional infected people in need.

And then you label anyone who doesn't agree with you as a Baghdad Bob. Hence, my response.
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What I'm saying is there's a ton of evidence from other countries that this thing is a big deal and you have a bunch of Baghdad bobs running around acting like it's not. If you don't agree with that, re-read this thread. That's only going to make it worse. I'm not even talking about death rates. I don't know if apocalyptic is the right word but there's evidence of health care systems being overwhelmed already. But, if you Bob it and allow it to explode past our health systems ability.. what then? You end up like China building makeshift hospitals. You end up like Italy in lock down. People can make the claim that it only kills old people but what happens when a normally healthy person can't get care or medications for a severe bout of pneumonia? The point is, if you sit there like Baghdad Bob just ignoring the problem, your country will get taken over in the background. My man from Italy posted a poignant phrase..

Turin said:
i do not want to ignite panic but it looks like you guys are us 2 weeks a go.
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Pay attention, he's living in it.
 
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Empirical Cane said:
I'm sorry, I didn't read closely enough to find a question answerable..but let me try...

South Korea and US aren't experiencing hugher death rates than flu, in fact its LESS THAN flu, for healthy patients. CORRECT it is tougher and more lethal for IMMUNOCOMPRIMISED patients.

You can't be serious in comparing public health measures and overall human hygiene practices of the Spanish Flu years to modern Western Societies are you?

PS..Italy kinda isn't one.
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You are an expert on comparing apples to oranges.

Flu stats have not been categorized by "healthy vs. non-healthy" subjects. Thus, you are comparing Coronvirus for HEALTHY subjects to Flu for ALL patients. Just stop it.

There probably isn't a flu, virus, or other disease that isn't more lethal to "immunocompromised" subjects. Shocker.
 
Turin said:
Guys
i live in the northern part of Italy (in Turin)and we are in complete lockdown

800 dead in 2 weeks, 12k infected, 1000 in intesive care units. Healthcare in Italy is the secondo best in the world as if WHO and it's completely free.

Please STAY HOME
this is really no joke, italian healtcare system and economy is really risking now
It is not a normal Flu
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But Empirical Cane says that those 800 were all old and/or immunocompromised, so we should do nothing.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
You are an expert on comparing apples to oranges.

Flu stats have not been categorized by "healthy vs. non-healthy" subjects. Thus, you are comparing Coronvirus for HEALTHY subjects to Flu for ALL patients. Just stop it.

There probably isn't a flu, virus, or other disease that isn't more lethal to "immunocompromised" subjects. Shocker.
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OMFG.

There are about 1B pages of scientific literature that shred flu stats down to the "does patient own a turtle" vs "does patient eat thai food" level.

You might be out of your depth on this one.

As you said, just stop.
 
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MovingZen said:
What I'm saying is there's a ton of evidence from other countries that this thing is a big deal and you have a bunch of Baghdad bobs running around acting like it's not. If you don't agree with that, re-read this thread. That's only going to make it worse. I'm not even talking about death rates. I don't know if apocalyptic is the right word but there's evidence of health care systems being overwhelmed already. But, if you Bob it and allow it to explode past our health systems ability.. what then? You end up like China building makeshift hospitals. You end up like Italy in lock down. People can make the claim that it only kills old people but what happens when a normally healthy person can't get care or medications for a severe bout of pneumonia? The point is, if you sit there like Baghdad Bob just ignoring the problem, your country will get taken over in the background. My man from Italy posted a poignant phrase..


Pay attention, he's living in it.
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Call me when US mobilizes our significant CSH or EMEDDS assets (exactly what China did in Wuhan). Let me know when Mercy and Comfort start taking patients in Baltimore Harbor.

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Good morning Canes fans! I just joined this site this morning. I have heard great things about this site and I am extremely excited to share my love for the canes along with you. I am really excited about this upcoming season. Go Canes!!!!
 
MovingZen said:
What I'm saying is there's a ton of evidence from other countries that this thing is a big deal and you have a bunch of Baghdad bobs running around acting like it's not. If you don't agree with that, re-read this thread. That's only going to make it worse. I'm not even talking about death rates. I don't know if apocalyptic is the right word but there's evidence of health care systems being overwhelmed already. But, if you Bob it and allow it to explode past our health systems ability.. what then? You end up like China building makeshift hospitals. You end up like Italy in lock down. People can make the claim that it only kills old people but what happens when a normally healthy person can't get care or medications for a severe bout of pneumonia? The point is, if you sit there like Baghdad Bob just ignoring the problem, your country will get taken over in the background. My man from Italy posted a poignant phrase..


Pay attention, he's living in it.
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But you're skirting past the only point I was trying to make to you. I don't believe you are wrong for having any of the opinions you do on Coronavirus. I was never saying your opinions are wrong. What I am calling you out on is the way you present it in absolute terms. Your logic forces everyone into one of two camps: you either agree that the response and worldwide pandemonium has been warranted, or you're Baghdad Bob. I am simply pointing out that there are rational positions in the middle. You paint a picture where either the water is freezing cold or scolding hot. No other option; absolutism. Many people may actually think the water is warm and not on either end of the absolute spectrum. That was my whole point, man. You have to stop labeling anyone who feels the worldwide frenzy of panic is disproportionate and not rational a Baghdad Bob. Doing so crumbles the foundation of what would otherwise be solid points you make. Sure, there are probably some loons out there who think the whole thing is made up. But that's Alex Jones-esque fringe sh-t, man. Most people, like myself, who think the reaction to coronavirus has been irrational, do not also choose to live with our head in the sand, advocate for allowing it to go unchecked, hope old people get sick, or elect to be willfully blind like Baghdad Bob. There are many rational positions in the middle. In fact, IMO, the only sane positions ARE those in the middle.

Case in point, you end your post by telling me to "pay attention" to the dude from Italy's comments, as if I have been entirely unaware of the situation in Italy. I've literally spent hours reading statements and info coming from doctors in Italy. I'm very aware of the state of coronavirus there. Just because I dont happen to agree with you that the sky is about to fall, doesn't mean I'm ignorant to coronavirus.
 
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ogcanes87 said:
Good morning Canes fans! I just joined this site this morning. I have heard great things about this site and I am extremely excited to share my love for the canes along with you. I am really excited about this upcoming season. Go Canes!!!!
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You have come to the right place friend!

Nothing but 24/7 all Canes talk, all the Canes time.

No off topic or muppets tolerated here!

Would you like a glass of cool and refreshing Kool-Aid?
 
Stop panicking. Healthcare workers are people just like you and have the same concerns. Overwhelming them with questions and stress and hyperbole about worst case scenarios doesn't help them or anyone else.

Take reasonable precautions. Wash your hands, disinfect surfaces, cover your mouth when you sneeze or cough. You may want to reconsider your plans to attend events.

There is a happy medium between panic and complacency.
 
Empirical Cane said:
I don't believe I ever said that. If I did, please provide quote and reference.

I'll wait.

🙄
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Look, you are a complete fraud. You are JUST AS BAD as those who you claim are "overreacting".

Every time something like this happens, there are extremes.

And you are on the "nothing is wrong" extreme.

Meanwhile, it is possible to minimize the impact by PROJECTING how much harm could arise from doing nothing AND THEN DOING SOMETHING TO PREVENT THAT.

But in order for billions of people to get off their filthy ****s and start doing something like washing their hands, using hand sanitizer, minimizing travel, etc., they have to actually believe that there is a threat.

So the dopey jag-offs like you, who keep telling us that flu and breast cancer are "worse" are blithely convincing the idiot sheep not to treat this as if it is anything out of the ordinary. Or you act as if there is a political motivation. Or any one of a dozen other ignorant responses.

Nobody ON ANY SIDE OF THIS disagrees that Coronavirus impacts elderly and/or unhealthy people more significantly. THAT is not the point. It is HOW certain people use that information that is the problem. Because the "everything is fine, let's talk about football" crowd is lulling people into inaction. And inaction will allow the problem to reach its "potential" spread numbers.

So here's an idea. Don't panic. But take precautions. If the trade-off is "let's have 2 crappy weeks of no sports" for "coronavirus never reached the projected impact numbers", then all sides should view it as a victory.

This kind of crap has happened over and over and over again. Virus/flu outbreak begins. Nobody does anything. Impact is greater than it should have been. Why don't we just TRY once to take precautions and minimize the problem?

Here you go, this was 100 years ago. Spanish flu? Hey, but we can't cancel the parade...




Try to be smarter. If you pride yourself on being so "Empirical", then don't be an idiot. Not everything is "media hype" and "ad sales" and "politics". We all know that the older you are and the unhealthier you are, the more that you are at risk for ANYTHING that happens in life.

But those things do not equate to "there is nothing to see here, go back to ordinary life".

Walk a middle pathway. Take precautions, but don't freak out. It's really not that difficult.
 
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