OT- Have athletes gotten worse in the NBA/MLB?

[KrazyCane]

Derrick Jones and Green are role players b/c they aren't very good. 90s era also had freaks that weren't terribly good either.

the difference is the role players now would run circles on the role players in the 90s. Even a star player like Klay Thompson who isn’t considered a top 10 NBA player but still an all star talent would be a superstar in the 90s.

 

[User-4525]

Jerry Krause 2017

"There are better athletes today. No question about it. The athletes are better fed, better trained...And it's the same in any sport. Same in baseball. Same in football."

(Jerry says the players back then knew how to play better because they stayed in college for longer)

Hall of fame scout/executive since y'all think IT cares so much about destroying Jordan (he doesn't)

 

[AUcane]

the difference is the role players now would run circles on the role players in the 90s. Even a star player like Klay Thompson who isn’t considered a top 10 NBA player but still an all star talent would be a superstar in the 90s.

give me an example of a role player now. Not sure if I agree.

As for KT, cmon mane. Superstar? lol Was reggie miller a superstar?

 

[DMoney]

The 2017-2019 GSW didn't struggle with anything about Cleveland. Only team doing anything against the 2017 Warriors was the Spurs.

The Splash Brothers, Draymond and Iggy weren’t on that team? They couldn’t keep Thompson off the boards. Imagine Rodman.

The playbook for beating the Warriors was roughing them up with athletic perimeter defense and killing them on the boards. The Bulls are built for that and can switch all day.

 

[User-4525]

give me an example of a role player now. Not sure if I agree.

As for KT, cmon mane. Superstar? lol Was reggie miller a superstar?

Not a superstar but he was the best player on one of the only teams to push Jordan to 7 games. Reggie was definitely a top 10/15 player during that 97-2000 run though

 

[AUcane]

Not a superstar but he was the best player on one of the only teams to push Jordan to 7 games. Reggie was definitely a top 10/15 player during that 97-2000 run though

right. I was making the comparison that KT compares to Reggie Miller instead of the high level super star that PP was saying he would be.

 

[TruCane81]

Ppl don’t remember MAR, man. Between his religious belief & I belief he had a tick as well. MAR was raw, and so was Rod Strickland. Ppl also don’t give Tim Hardaway enough credit, the God Father of the cross over. Matter of fact, Timmy H should be in the HOF, but his disparaging comments about the *** community have nixed that.

It didn’t help MAR playing for Denver. They were never on tv. He put up monster numbers but I didn’t realize how raw he was until I went back and saw his highlights.

Timmy Hardaway and Hot Rod would be murder in the wide open offenses of today. They were lightening with the crossover, especially Timmy. He used to go through his leg with the crossover and walk by defenders.

A.I. was allowed to carry with it and it made guys look really bad, but Tim Hardaway was just as skilled with it. He didn’t have A.I.’s raw athleticism, though.

 

[User-4525]

The Splash Brothers, Draymond and Iggy weren’t on that team? They couldn’t keep Thompson off the boards. Imagine Rodman.

The playbook for beating the Warriors was roughing them up with athletic perimeter defense and killing them on the boards. The Bulls are built for that and can switch all day.

Rodman would feast on them. All I'm saying is the 2016-2017 isn't the 2015-2016 team. They rebounded much better against the Cavs because of the Durant/Barnes switch.

The triangle would give the Bulls an offensive rebounding and transition defense advantage but I'm rolling with Steph Klay Iggy Durant Draymond because that's the best closing 5 OAT. Durant wouldn't have to expend the high amount of energy on the defensive side of the ball that Jordan and Pippen would in this scenario. Tough to compare teams in different eras without knowing what era they'd play in though. Phil Jackson hates shooting a high amount 3s but the Bulls would need them against the Warriors. I don't like the chances of the 2017-2018 team as much because that's when the drama with KD started.

 

[User-4525]

right. I was making the comparison that KT compares to Reggie Miller instead of the high level super star that PP was saying he would be.

ah gotcha. Klay is better than Reggie IMO but he wouldn't be a top 5 guy with Grant Hill, Jordan, Shaq, Payton, etc.

 

[Rellyrell]

It didn’t help MAR playing for Denver. They were never on tv. He put up monster numbers but I didn’t realize how raw he was until I went back and saw his highlights.

Timmy Hardaway and Hot Rod would be murder in the wide open offenses of today. They were lightening with the crossover, especially Timmy. He used to go through his leg with the crossover and walk by defenders.

A.I. was allowed to carry with it and it made guys look really bad, but Tim Hardaway was just as skilled with it. He didn’t have A.I.’s raw athleticism, though.

Correct; Hardaway’s crosses over was a quick tween, tween cross. AI, was literally allowed to hold the ball, and fake one way and cross the other. Tim was the first guy I could recall by getting his own shot off the bounce. And he was little, little. Barely 6’0, but was strong like an ox and lightning quick. Again, he’s not going to get his just due b/c he spoke his truth in a liberal society.

 

[Rellyrell]

This is from Isiah Thomas, who would literally give his left & right nut if it meant taking a dig at MJ’s GOAT status. Don’t get it twisted, these mofos still don’t like each other, except Zeke is smart w his, and does chit on the sly; MJ just don’t give af.

Stop hating @Kyle Liburd, and face facts.

 

[User-4525]

Stop hating @Kyle Liburd, and face facts.

It's hating when IT says something, but not hating when MJ (in 2013) says only Tim Duncan, Dirk, LBJ, and Kobe could play in his era. No Nash, Durant, KG, CP3, Blake Griffin, Pierce, Allen, Westbrook, Wade, Melo, Howard, Deron Williams etc.

I'll roll with Jerry Krause, Tim Grover and Isiah and the conventional wisdom in the basketball world - saying players are more athletic today isn't exactly "hating" or "a hot take"

 

[Rellyrell]

It's hating when IT says something, but not hating when MJ (in 2013) says only Tim Duncan, Dirk, LBJ, and Kobe could play in his era. No Nash, Durant, KG, CP3, Blake Griffin, Pierce, Allen, Westbrook, Wade, Melo, Howard, Deron Williams etc.

I'll roll with Jerry Krause and Isiah and the conventional wisdom in the basketball world - saying players are more athletic today isn't exactly "hating" or "a hot take"

First off, CP3, RW, and Blake are Jordan Brand’s lead ambassadors, so clearly he thinks very highly of those players, especially Russ.
Second, did u just throw in Deron Williams? GTFOH

Third, athletically doesn’t mean better. I used to be the biggest KD fan, til I saw how soft he was mentally. It started in 2011, and carried over to 2016. So am I to think that him getting bodied and knocked down, constantly, wouldn’t eventually take a toll on him both physically & mentally?

Like, the whole debate about old school v. new school is foolish simply b/c as the game has evolved, as the rules have changed, they’re greater sample sizes, so of course the athlete today should be better. Just like the athlete was better in the 70’s than the 50’s and 60’s. The athlete was better in the 80’s than the 70’s. The athlete was better in the 90’s then the 80’s, and so on and so forth.

BUT basketball back then was still a man’s game. No buddy, buddy chit. No fashion runway chit. No shooting everything from the outside or can’t be touch chit. Your mental game had to be just as, if not stronger than your physical game. That’s the missing ingredient in a lot of NBA players today.

 

[User-4525]

First off, CP3, RW, and Blake are Jordan Brand’s lead ambassadors, so clearly he thinks very highly of those players, especially Russ.
Second, did u just throw in Deron Williams? GTFOH

“JORDAN PLAYS his new favorite trivia game, asking which current players could be nearly as successful in his era. “Our era,” he says over and over again, calling modern players soft, coddled and ill-prepared for the highest level of the game. This is personal to him, since he’ll be compared to this generation, and since he has to build a franchise with this generation’s players.

“I’ll give you a hint,” he says. “I can only come up with four.”

He lists them: LeBron, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki.”

 

[Rellyrell]

“JORDAN PLAYS his new favorite trivia game, asking which current players could be nearly as successful in his era. “Our era,” he says over and over again, calling modern players soft, coddled and ill-prepared for the highest level of the game. This is personal to him, since he’ll be compared to this generation, and since he has to build a franchise with this generation’s players.

“I’ll give you a hint,” he says. “I can only come up with four.”

He lists them: LeBron, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki.”

Is he lying? Is the player today not soft & coddled?

I mean, I’m saying the same chit.

And when was this quote??!

 

[Artist Formerly Known As]

Longley, Wennington, and Kukoc joined in 1993, so they caught the tail end of the first run.

The core of the late 90's run was:

Dennis Rodman
Toni Kukoc
Steve Kerr
Ron Harper
Bill Wennington
Luc Longley
Jason Caffey
Randy Brown
Judd Beuchler

A little (not a lot) more athletic than the early 90's - but still pretty nonathletic top to bottom.

Rodman was still a freak, but not the same as he was earlier in his career. He last made all defensive in 95-96 when Kemp at him for breakfast in the finals. By 1998 he was 36 and coming off the bench in the playoffs. Harper was 31 when he joined the Bulls in 94. Kukoc is similar to someone like Gallinari today.

What I'm saying is take LeBron/AD off the Lakers, and the rest of the 2020 Lakers look much more athletic than the 1990's Bulls

2020 Lakers:

Kyle Kuzma
KCP
Avery Bradley
Rajan Rondo
Dwight Howard
JaVale McGee
Danny Green
Markieff Morris

Now look at those Utah teams the Bulls beat in 2 Finals the late 90's. How is this team more athletic than teams today?

Karl Malone
John Stockton
Jeff Hornacek
Bryon Russell
Shandon Anderson
Greg Ostertagg
Adam Keefe
Howard Eisley
Antoine Carr

The lakers sans the two stars are not more athletic at this point.

Early in their careers, Rondo, Howard, McGee, and Green were great athletes, but nothing special anymore

 

[Artist Formerly Known As]

“JORDAN PLAYS his new favorite trivia game, asking which current players could be nearly as successful in his era. “Our era,” he says over and over again, calling modern players soft, coddled and ill-prepared for the highest level of the game. This is personal to him, since he’ll be compared to this generation, and since he has to build a franchise with this generation’s players.

“I’ll give you a hint,” he says. “I can only come up with four.”

He lists them: LeBron, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki.”

There’s more than those four, but I think a guy like Durant would be at a huge disadvantage back them.

 

[CaneLife93]

Stop hating @Kyle Liburd, and face facts.

Speaking of the Bulls and GSW, it got me curious. Phil Jackson vs Steve Kerr? Who does the coaching advantage go to?

 

[TruCane81]

There’s more than those four, but I think a guy like Durant would be at a huge disadvantage back them.

Durant eats in any era.

He would be the same guy, the good and the bad. He never wins a championship as the main guy with one other star player.

Put his scoring on the Knicks, Pacers, or Jazz, and those series get a lot more difficult for th Bulls.

I still wouldn’t bet against Jorda n though. What separates him from EVERYBODY except maybe Bill Russell is his unparalleled ability to raise the play of his teammates.

Jordan was a brutal task master whose practice habits drove his teammates to elite play in the most critical situations. Once he got over the hump, NOBODY could beat his infectious, psychotic competitiveness.

No matter how skilled or great any player past or present is, he is head and shoulders above them all.

 

[Anco17]

“Despite significant advances in training and nutrition, are NBA and MLB (but not nfl bc I still watch that hehe) players worse today?”

This is the most retarded thread I’ve think I’ve ever seen. No offense OP