On Judd Anderson

[Fluffhead]

Definitely a concern. He can’t be our only QB, whether it’s high school or Portal.

Truthfully this is my bigger concern… I’m actually fine focusing on the portal for QBs, but for the time being it seems a lot to overcome whatever narratives about Mario are out there without that too QB signing off. By the time we have that portal guy the top WRs are likely already signed.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

If you have been saying this, you should stop.

Look at QBs that rank in the Top 100 overall players and their hit rate. It’s a great investment.

And who are the game changers in this year’s transfer class you would want starting against Alabama or UGA?

Class of 2018: 5 of the 8 top 100 QB's transferred.

Class of 2019: All 3 top 100 QB's transferred!

Class of 2020: 5 of the 8 top 100 QB's have already transferred.

So that's 13 of the 19 "QBs that rank in the Top 100 overall players" in the 2018-2020 signing classes that have already transferred. Thats just under 70%. And of course they aren't done yet, a few more possibly will. There could also be 1-2 in in there that haven't transferred yet but also have not meaningfully contributed either.

How great of an "investment" was it in those three consecutive recent classes to put your heart, soul, time and recruiting budget into signing an "elite" QB out of HS?

****, in the class of 2021 four top 100 QB's have ALREADY transferred, and those kids are all still wet behind the ears!

 

[DMoney]

The point I’m making is Clemson’s classes have been primarily ranked between 11th - 15th for the majority of Dabo’s tenure as HC, even with Watson. He’s hit the mark on QB & WR particularly. Which is y I said getting a top QB should Always be the priority b/c it can mask deficiencies & make the O go.

Don’t forget DL.

Since 2015, Clemson has produced five first rounders, a second rounder, two fourths, a Pro Bowler in Grady Jarrett and another NFL stud in DJ Reader. And they have two potential first rounders this year.

Defensive line is the common thread among champions.

 

[supacane]

Class of 2018: 5 of the 8 top 100 QB's transferred.

Class of 2019: All 3 top 100 QB's transferred!

Class of 2020: 5 of the 8 top 100 QB's have already transferred.

So that's 13 of the 19 "QBs that rank in the Top 100 overall players" in the 2018-2020 signing classes that have already transferred. Thats just under 70%. And of course they aren't done yet, a few more possibly will. There could also be 1-2 in in there that haven't transferred yet but also have not meaningfully contributed either.

How great of an "investment" was it in those three consecutive recent classes to put your heart, soul, time and recruiting budget into signing an "elite" QB out of HS?

****, in the class of 2021 four top 100 QB's have ALREADY transferred, and those kids are all still wet behind the ears!

Like i said, some of these same kids might be hitting us up trying to portal in. Only one can play typically. U need a starter and a capable backup thats next in line. That is simply incredible the amount of QBs who already transferred before even picking a dorm.

 

[Rellyrell]

No doubt you need star playmakers to win big. Those RBs you mentioned were also Top 100 recruits, unlike the championship QBs.

That position is pretty easy to evaluate.

Well, the point is u’re mentioning these 3 star QBs who have won titles; OK, all of them were ranked top 15 in the nation at their position (w/ the exception of Krenzl since recruiting sites weren’t around at this time). Yet, it was the team around them, namely having a beast of RB protecting them. They also had a stud receiver as a go to:

Krenzl - 2 first round WRs in Jenkins & Gamble
McElroy - soon to be NFL HOFer Julio Jones
Coker - 1st round WR Calvin Ridley
Bennett - Soon to be 1st round TE Brock Bowers

But let’s look at who have won the National Title since 2003 & who led them. (I’m using 2003 as a guide due to available rankings of starting QBs)

2003: USC & LSU (split):
Leinart (USC - 4*) / Mauck (rating NA due to classification)

2004: USC
Leinart: 4*

2005: Texas
Young: 5*

2006: UF
Leak: 5*

2007: LSU
Flynn: 4*

2008: UF
Tebow: 5*

2009: Bama
McElroy: 3*

2010: Auburn
Newton: 5*

2011: Bama
McCarron: 4*

2012: Bama
McCarron: 4*

2013: FSU
Crab Thief: 5*

2014: OSU
Barrett (4*) / Jones (3*)…Barrett started 80% of that season

2015: Bama
Coker: 3*

2016: Clemson
Watson: 4*

2017: Bama
Hurts (4*) / Tua (5*)

2018: Clemson
Lawrence: 5*

2019: LSU
Burrows: 4*

2020: Bama
Jones: 3*

2021: UGA
Bennett: 3*

2022: UGA
Bennett: 3*

So out of the last 19 championship teams, 67% were led by blue chip QBs (& I’m being generous by including Cardale Jones since he only played 3 games).

Those 3 star QBs were:
G McElroy: Top 400 in the nation
C Jones: Top 400 in the nation
M Jones: Top 400 in the nation
S Bennett: Top 200 in the nation at the JUCO level

None were outside the top 400 overall.

 

[Rellyrell]

Don’t forget DL.

Since 2015, Clemson has produced five first rounders, a second rounder, two fourths, a Pro Bowler in Grady Jarrett and another NFL stud in DJ Reader. And they have two potential first rounders this year.

Defensive line is the common thread among champions.

Of course, but we had the #1 Defense & **** poor QB play who couldn’t capitalize what the defense was giving them. This ain’t just smash mouth football anymore. U need a QB in today’s game; anyone saying to the contrary is being disingenuous.

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

Elite run games & at least one elite WR

That works too. And I think it's considerably cheaper and easier than trying to find 4 elite DL. Maybe Citizen can be that elite RB but that remains to be seen (Chaney is a solid RB but he's injured way too much and I don't think he qualifies as elite). We are in real bad shape at WR.

 

[cway313]

U making too much sense. I never seen Mario Cristobal calling plays, yet he gets tagged as a QB killer. Its baffling to me. His actual position is A+ recruiting, high school and portal. Which means the RBs are gonna eat.

He takes blame for hiring Gattis but i like Dawson as a QB coach. He developed Geno Smith 10 years ago plus Thune who was rated like this kid with less arm talent more recently. Whats funny to me as well is Mario Cristobal is the first coach i see our fans blame for misses at every position. When we couldnt get LBs they blamed Patke, when we struggled with CBs they blamed Rumph, before that QB issues was on Jon Richt.

Now, every position miss is Mario lol

So initially you acknowledge that Mario is supposed to be A+ recruiter but then pretend to be clueless as to why Mario gets blamed for recruiting woes. Pick a side supe.

 

[DMoney]

Of course, but we had the #1 Defense & **** poor QB play who couldn’t capitalize what the defense was giving them. This ain’t just smash mouth football anymore. U need a QB in today’s game; anyone saying to the contrary is being disingenuous.

Do you need a competent QB? Of course. But do you need a Top 100 recruit or a superstar? No. It’s been proven repeatedly.

Conversely, you need stud DLs. Competent isn’t enough. LSU ‘19 had one of the weakest DLs of the title teams, and they still had a first rounder and two fourths (all Top 60 recruits nationally).

Well, the point is u’re mentioning these 3 star QBs who have won titles; OK, all of them were ranked top 15 in the nation at their position (w/ the exception of Krenzl since recruiting sites weren’t around at this time). Yet, it was the team around them, namely having a beast of RB protecting them. They also had a stud receiver as a go to:

Krenzl - 2 first round WRs in Jenkins & Gamble
McElroy - soon to be NFL HOFer Julio Jones
Coker - 1st round WR Calvin Ridley
Bennett - Soon to be 1st round TE Brock Bowers

But let’s look at who have won the National Title since 2003 & who led them. (I’m using 2003 as a guide due to available rankings of starting QBs)

2003: USC & LSU (split):
Leinart (USC - 4*) / Mauck (rating NA due to classification)

2004: USC
Leinart: 4*

2005: Texas
Young: 5*

2006: UF
Leak: 5*

2007: LSU
Flynn: 4*

2008: UF
Tebow: 5*

2009: Bama
McElroy: 3*

2010: Auburn
Newton: 5*

2011: Bama
McCarron: 4*

2012: Bama
McCarron: 4*

2013: FSU
Crab Thief: 5*

2014: OSU
Barrett (4*) / Jones (3*)…Barrett started 80% of that season

2015: Bama
Coker: 3*

2016: Clemson
Watson: 4*

2017: Bama
Hurts (4*) / Tua (5*)

2018: Clemson
Lawrence: 5*

2019: LSU
Burrows: 4*

2020: Bama
Jones: 3*

2021: UGA
Bennett: 3*

2022: UGA
Bennett: 3*

So out of the last 19 championship teams, 67% were led by blue chip QBs (& I’m being generous by including Cardale Jones since he only played 3 games).

Those 3 star QBs were:
G McElroy: Top 400 in the nation
C Jones: Top 400 in the nation
M Jones: Top 400 in the nation
S Bennett: Top 200 in the nation at the JUCO level

None were outside the top 400 overall.

67% blue chip is a low bar. We’ve been terrible the past decade, and we’ve still signed 8 blue-chip QBs in that time frame.

The critical battles we’ve lost have been at DT, WR and CB. Our biggest miss at QB wasn’t even a lost battle, it was a three star local kid named Lamar Jackson.

 

[GojiraCane]

What makes this signing any more promising than Taylor Cook, Cannon Smith, Gray Crow, Preston Dewey, Evan Sherrifs, or Payton Matocha. All were 3 star quarterbacks, several talked up as diamonds in the rough. The only three star quarterback that we have signed that was actually productive for us since 2002 was Stephen Morris.

And as mentioned, Malik as well (although Stephen was better with lesser talent).

 

[Rellyrell]

Do you need a competent QB? Of course. But do you need a Top 100 recruit or a superstar? No. It’s been proven repeatedly.

Conversely, you need stud DLs. Competent isn’t enough. LSU ‘19 had one of the weakest DLs of the title teams, and they still had a first rounder and two fourths (all Top 60 recruits nationally).

67% blue chip is a low bar. We’ve been terrible the past decade, and we’ve still signed 8 blue-chip QBs in that time frame.

The critical battles we’ve lost have been at DT, WR and CB. Our biggest miss at QB wasn’t even a lost battle, it was a three star local kid named Lamar Jackson.

D; it’s been proven 5x in 19 yrs!! Come on, bro. Again, in all those instances those 3 star QBs had a sick back field.

I’m not discounting the need for elite defensive players, but while ur listing on the blue chip QBs we’ve recruited, let’s talk about the DTs we’ve brought in:

Pata (4* - #9 DT in the nation) - RIP
Hendricks (4* - #11 DT in the nation)
Dixon (4* - #2 DT in the nation)
Fortson (5* - #1 DT in the nation)
Robinson (4* - #29 DT in the nation)
Glenn (4* - #26 DT in the nation)
Moten (4* - #14 DT in the nation)
Willis (4* - #2 DT in the nation (transfer)
Silvera (4* - #2 DT in the nation)
Blissett (4* - #22 DT in the nation)
Taylor (5* - #4 DT in the nation)

Let’s not include the crazy amount of blue chip DEs that’s been recruited along this time line.

We can talk about misses at every position w this program, b/c for some reason, every other program hits on blue chips but we don’t. (& I’m sure we know the true reason y)

We’ve had a plethora of 4 - 5* WRs come & fail, a plethora of 4 - 5* DBs come & fail. In reality, the finger should & could be pointed at coaching & development, but that’s a different subject.

In the game of football, the engine is the QB. If the data is showing u have a 2/3 probability of winning it all w/ a blue chip QB, why would u choose the path of most resistance?

Furthermore, once again, these 3* QBs have been ranked in the top 400 in the nation regardless of position & they played on absolutely stacked teams w/ coaches who are considered elite. There’s too many variables that’s needed to hit that 33% clip. Mac Brown is STILL living off of VY, got dang it! Ed O was pouring champagne off of young women b/c of Burrow! ****, even Jacory Harris was making Shannon look competent for a time! TVD almost saved Manny’s job despite his ineptitude!

 

[mossmadness]

Class of 2018: 5 of the 8 top 100 QB's transferred.

Class of 2019: All 3 top 100 QB's transferred!

Class of 2020: 5 of the 8 top 100 QB's have already transferred.

So that's 13 of the 19 "QBs that rank in the Top 100 overall players" in the 2018-2020 signing classes that have already transferred. Thats just under 70%. And of course they aren't done yet, a few more possibly will. There could also be 1-2 in in there that haven't transferred yet but also have not meaningfully contributed either.

How great of an "investment" was it in those three consecutive recent classes to put your heart, soul, time and recruiting budget into signing an "elite" QB out of HS?

****, in the class of 2021 four top 100 QB's have ALREADY transferred, and those kids are all still wet behind the ears!

So what?

Did the teams they transfer from have bad QB play?

 

[mossmadness]

I’m fine with having a 3* start at QB, as long as he beat out a bunch of big time recruits to win the job.

There’s a difference between bringing in a bunch of elite recruits, and still having 3* Jordan Davis starting for you, and bringing in a bunch of 3* players, and pretending like they can all be Jordan Davis.

If you have elite talent at a position, and a 3* wins the job, it means the 3* must be pretty **** good.

That isn’t what Mario is doing at the QB position though so far.

 

[mlw352]

It’s quickly becoming my biggest concern. We are weak there right now. Unlike QB, it is a very difficult to fill in the Portal.

Was it weak or did we just miss on everything like lsu entire corner transfer class we didn’t get anyone of significance

 

[NorthEastCane]

So initially you acknowledge that Mario is supposed to be A+ recruiter but then pretend to be clueless as to why Mario gets blamed for recruiting woes. Pick a side supe.

He was talking about taking the blame for not developing QBs, not recruiting.

 

[westcoastcanes]

Do you need a competent QB? Of course. But do you need a Top 100 recruit or a superstar? No. It’s been proven repeatedly.

Conversely, you need stud DLs. Competent isn’t enough. LSU ‘19 had one of the weakest DLs of the title teams, and they still had a first rounder and two fourths (all Top 60 recruits nationally).

67% blue chip is a low bar. We’ve been terrible the past decade, and we’ve still signed 8 blue-chip QBs in that time frame.

The critical battles we’ve lost have been at DT, WR and CB. Our biggest miss at QB wasn’t even a lost battle, it was a three star local kid named Lamar Jackson.

it has been proven repeatedly by teams that are perennial top 5 or better class recruiters and we aren’t Ohio state, bama, or Georgia.

3 stars out number 4 and 5 stars roughly 5:1. 67% of the titles in that minority group is not insignificant.

I don’t really care how they get here, through the portal or as a hs recruit, but we cannot stack 3 star qbs until we are also stacking top 3 classes and think we are going to win anything because a few juggernaut rosters did in the last 20 years. The odds of finding the diamonds are too low, and until proven otherwise the odds of attracting the 1 in 20 undervalued non-blue chip Qb in the portal doesn’t seem highly likely with the rep we have.

It sucks that our blue chip Qb recruits have not cut it, but it doesn’t make reaching for the 50% 1:1 passer more palatable to me.

 

[supacane]

D; it’s been proven 5x in 19 yrs!! Come on, bro. Again, in all those instances those 3 star QBs had a sick back field.

I’m not discounting the need for elite defensive players, but while ur listing on the blue chip QBs we’ve recruited, let’s talk about the DTs we’ve brought in:

Pata (4* - #9 DT in the nation) - RIP
Hendricks (4* - #11 DT in the nation)
Dixon (4* - #2 DT in the nation)
Fortson (5* - #1 DT in the nation)
Robinson (4* - #29 DT in the nation)
Glenn (4* - #26 DT in the nation)
Moten (4* - #14 DT in the nation)
Willis (4* - #2 DT in the nation (transfer)
Silvera (4* - #2 DT in the nation)
Blissett (4* - #22 DT in the nation)
Taylor (5* - #4 DT in the nation)

Let’s not include the crazy amount of blue chip DEs that’s been recruited along this time line.

We can talk about misses at every position w this program, b/c for some reason, every other program hits on blue chips but we don’t. (& I’m sure we know the true reason y)

We’ve had a plethora of 4 - 5* WRs come & fail, a plethora of 4 - 5* DBs come & fail. In reality, the finger should & could be pointed at coaching & development, but that’s a different subject.

In the game of football, the engine is the QB. If the data is showing u have a 2/3 probability of winning it all w/ a blue chip QB, why would u choose the path of most resistance?

Furthermore, once again, these 3* QBs have been ranked in the top 400 in the nation regardless of position & they played on absolutely stacked teams w/ coaches who are considered elite. There’s too many variables that’s needed to hit that 33% clip. Mac Brown is STILL living off of VY, got dang it! Ed O was pouring champagne off of young women b/c of Burrow! ****, even Jacory Harris was making Shannon look competent for a time! TVD almost saved Manny’s job despite his ineptitude!

U think 11 top ranked DTs in 19 years is alot when each season the position needs 6 or 7 players minimum probably. Get real man. Teams who are winning recruit that in 3 consecutive classes max. Getting 1 elite talent and a bunch of jags who transfer or never play is not how u build a championship DL. How Mario recruit the OL in one class....thats how.

 

[Bender]

There are two first-round Portal QBs in this draft alone.

Been saying this since last year: allocate the NIL money to positions like DT and CB that hit at far higher rate than QB. Spend on portal QBs and sign high-upside cheap QBs.

Portal is free agency in this day and age, which means value is a completely new topic to evaluate.

There are talented passers coming from lower levels trying to make it into the draft, especially FCS. Look for these cats.

 

[cway313]

He was talking about taking the blame for not developing QBs, not recruiting.

Maybe you should reread because naw.

 

[DMoney]

D; it’s been proven 5x in 19 years!

This is the problem with having five different arguments at once. Things get mixed.

Go back and look at the statement you are quoting- I’m talking about signing Top 100 recruit, superstar types. The Lawrences and Tebows. Those guys aren’t necessary to build championship teams. Many title QBs aren’t superstars, and some of the superstars (Burrow, Newton) are transfer kids or non-Top 100 recruits.

Separately, you are making a point about blue chip vs. non-blue chip in general. It’s not a pre-requisite- 67% is not 80-90%- but it’s also not a high bar. We’ve signed a ton of blue chip QBs recently, and it’s very possible that Judd gets a fourth star if he has a good year.

Which brings it full circle to the original point- you don’t need to win the elite QB sweepstakes to win big. Spend big on DL/CB/WR, swing big on QB traits and if you need a safer bet, go to the Portal.

The irony is that Mario signed a Top 50 kid at QB before he left (Ty Thompson). He got beaten out by Bo Nix, who reinvented himself as an NFL prospect behind a Mirabal-built OL.