forums

NO STARS...ONLY FILM.

The areas I am optimistic on Manny re recruiting are:

- Roster depth and balance: he hammered the portal, and will take a full class and get us back towards 85 faster than people expected
- Urgency overall: filling the roster, and the class - not waiting around to get played by kids
- No dead wood: the guys we are signing may not all be stars, but they all look like they can contribute, and the ‘bet’ being made is clear
- Player types by position: he seems to know what he’s looking for by position quite clearly, probably more clearly than our past several coaches
- Balance between athleticism and playmaking depending on position: e.g., LB leans towards playmaking, DE towards athletic potential

That said, we do not yet know Manny’s abilities re the two most important recruiting areas:

- Evaluations: it’s good to know what you’re looking for, but can you pick the right kids from the prototypes you identify? He needs to be good at evals, not just average, for us to get to where we want to be
- Selling: Can he win his share of the big head to head battles. We can reserve judgment / withhold blame for ‘20 kids because they are deciding before seeing him coach a game. But in the future, our % take should be higher on kids like D. Harris, Dumervil, Walker, Knighton, Wingo, Tennison, A. Williams, Cavazos, Gray, Holmes, Henderson, Robinson, Jones-Bell, Rosemy....

Also, our biggest wins seem to be on offense in ‘20 - Chaney, TVD, Redding, Fleming, Rivers, maybe Walker, maybe another big time WR and / or TE. Enos and the offensive staff can sell.

But on Manny’s D, it’s less clear. Some of it is the local options are sparser for ‘20, but whatever the reason, our defensive staff seems to be selling less well than our offensive staff.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
Dwinstitles said:
Its a different time, things dont stay the same dog. We are different but those hidden gems are gone guys like ray Lewis or Ed Reed aint going unknow. U really think an Ed Reed will attend camps and have Tulane and UM offers? No way in **** its rare a hall of famer goes under the radar especially a Louisiana DB.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s even the camps and different circuits that makes it rare. There’s way more FBS teams now. If you get overlooked by LSU, you can go to a UCF or a Houston and be top 10. With the media if they go unknown, you can go a FCS program and still be on tv as much as another mid major team. Heck even D2’s getting the national spotlight. If it was now, Ed Reed could still possibly go under the radar but he probably would be content going to a strong FCS where he may be on tv at least 3x.
 
How many players get their star rating bumped up after they get an offer and commit to Bama, or Clemson, or Ohio State? The whole game seems a sham. Player A must be a 4-5 star if teams X,Y, or Z accepted a commit from him. Teams X, Y, and Z now have the most 4-5 star recruits.
 
We should hire whoever the Director of scouting is at 247 sports as our HC, that way we'll never miss on any evaluations & our entire class will always be top ranked with 25 5-stars.

Kill 2 Birds with one stone...
image.gif
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
Look at our depth at LB and tell me again why you would trust Manny's evals?

Also we don't have Dabo or Saban, Manny isn't going to spot something that everyone else missed.
 
TemplarCane said:
How many players get their star rating bumped up after they get an offer and commit to Bama, or Clemson, or Ohio State? The whole game seems a sham. Player A must be a 4-5 star if teams X,Y, or Z accepted a commit from him. Teams X, Y, and Z now have the most 4-5 star recruits.
Click to expand...
The reason they get a bunp are the head coaches.......sites trust saban dabo and urbans evals. Its a risk they will take
 
Rellyrell said:
Real talk, I think several of our 3 star recruits will be 4 stars, honestly. But, I’m still not comfortable w a class that’s led by 3 stars.

Sometimes these recruiting services over evaluate, but for the most part, the recruiting services & those who are invited to the Major all star games (UAAA & USAAA) have it right. Teams w high blue chip ratios, wins; that’s a fact.
Click to expand...
No it's not. Unless you're generalizing that with bama or osu,etc.which are factories & wash out far more high 4 & 5 stars kids than most get than nah. The teams that win are the teams that have a balance of quality kids and a great staff. A staff that can develop its kids. That's what wins. Just ask the boise states etc of the world. I'll take a staff that is truly elite in its evals and development any day over a bunch of highly rated kids by some jack *** who sits back getting sloppy drunk off the bread he hates paid to rate them so highly.
 
There's thousands of kids out there - it's fine to say you'll recruit based on film and not ratings but you have to start somewhere to even begin building the list of tapes to watch. And guess what....that's rankings, camps and probably some feedback from local coaches and/or players.
 
Advertisement
caneambassador said:
A lot of those three stars will be four watch
The film on them I mean I dont know who putting out the stars but this is crazy plus manny says they already watched these guys why waste a scholarship when you still got bigger fish still want to come?
Click to expand...
What scholarship is wasted? None. The staff is recruiting to need. If they like a kid, they take him. If the top recruits get on board, they have room. I think they're making some smart moves. They're not going to wait until NSD to find out a bunch of 4-5 star recruits chose some other school and then scrambling to fill the class. They're selecting kids with high ceilings that fit the program and who wouldn't be around to sign late in the game. With most of the class filled in, they can focus on the top targets.
 
BoxingRobes said:
You guys really jump through hoops to justify what goes on with this program...and, you do it for every.single.coach.

I'm all for giving Manny his time. He'll get it. You don't need to pound the table in support the entire time.

All I know...is if you're going to be "the smartest guy in the room" your evaluations better be on point...football is littered with corncobs that think they got the special sauce and most of them flop. The "smartest guys" that succeed (say, Chip Kelly or Mike Leach) usually have a system and a player type that they can snipe and punch above their weight. idk if Manny Diaz is that guy on the defensive side, but I guess we'll see.
Click to expand...
The thing is that you can't pass judgment until the class is complete and the product is on the field. You really can't judge a class until 2-3 years later. You have to see how the player develops regardless of star rating. At that point, fan can say the coaches are great recruiters or they suck.

Everyone is caught up in the recruiting hype that ESPN created several years ago. Now, fans think if your team doesn't get the guys that the recruiting services have highly rated, then you must be doing something wrong. Let the staff do their thing. Scrutinize later.
 
For the star gazers out there.

Number 45 on Bruce Feldman's annual freaks list comes an offensive lineman for Clemson, a converted 3 Star DT who in high school was known more for his achievements in wrestling than football.

45: Gage Cervenka, Clemson, offensive line
A converted defensive tackle, Cervenka played center and right guard, starting eight games for the national champs in 2018. The 6-3 1/2, 330-pound grad student repped 225 43 times on the bench this off-season and maxed 475. He squats 680 and power cleaned 370. Before coming to Clemson, he dominated the South Carolina high school wrestling scene, going 199-1 in his four-year career with his lone defeat coming in his freshman year. Cervenka is the only four-time state heavyweight champion in South Carolina history.
 
Go Canes!! said:
For the star gazers out there.

Number 45 on Bruce Feldman's annual freaks list comes an offensive lineman for Clemson, a converted 3 Star DT who in high school was known more for his achievements in wrestling than football.

45: Gage Cervenka, Clemson, offensive line
A converted defensive tackle, Cervenka played center and right guard, starting eight games for the national champs in 2018. The 6-3 1/2, 330-pound grad student repped 225 43 times on the bench this off-season and maxed 475. He squats 680 and power cleaned 370. Before coming to Clemson, he dominated the South Carolina high school wrestling scene, going 199-1 in his four-year career with his lone defeat coming in his freshman year. Cervenka is the only four-time state heavyweight champion in South Carolina history.
Click to expand...

Wrestling translates well to Oline and DT bc of the hand usage and center of gravity aspects of the positions.
 
Advertisement
In my experience there are 3 buckets of 3* prospects:

1) Productive but limited HS players ex. Flagg (who I actually like) or Larry Hodges (also like)
2) Developmental prospects with growth potential who either don't show a lot on film or project to be something else in college ex. Sam Brooks, Adam ElGammal
3) Underrated studs who the recruiting sites whiff on - ex. David Njoku

The star whores never actually evaluate so they just generalize and lump all 3* players together which is borderline useless for the purpose of drawing conclusions. What Manny is doing is trying to build up a roster. The guys from bucket 1 should be valuable and productive role players for the most part. The guys from bucket 2 are supposed to develop in the weight room and on the field to unlock their potential. They might take longer to contribute than higher ranked kids but they can be every bit as productive in a good ecosystem. Plenty of them become early draft picks. We know the weight program has been effective so far so that should provide optimism. The guys in bucket 3 are self-explanatory and provide good comic relief for me when whiny clowns complain about a prospect without having the slightest hint of a clue as to how to evaluate them. Those Zion Nelson threads were absolute gold, for example.
 
HighSeas said:
In my experience there are 3 buckets of 3* prospects:

1) Productive but limited HS players ex. Flagg (who I actually like) or Larry Hodges (also like)
2) Developmental prospects with growth potential who either don't show a lot on film or project to be something else in college ex. Sam Brooks, Adam ElGammal
3) Underrated studs who the recruiting sites whiff on - ex. David Njoku

The star whores never actually evaluate so they just generalize and lump all 3* players together which is borderline useless for the purpose of drawing conclusions. What Manny is doing is trying to build up a roster. The guys from bucket 1 should be valuable and productive role players for the most part. The guys from bucket 2 are supposed to develop in the weight room and on the field to unlock their potential. They might take longer to contribute than higher ranked kids but they can be every bit as productive in a good ecosystem. Plenty of them become early draft picks. We know the weight program has been effective so far so that should provide optimism. The guys in bucket 3 are self-explanatory and provide good comic relief for me when whiny clowns complain about a prospect without having the slightest hint of a clue as to how to evaluate them. Those Zion Nelson threads were absolute gold, for example.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't Larry Hodges be in the second group? He's a raw player with plus physical attributes.
 
Advertisement
brcane1 said:
Wouldn't Larry Hodges be in the second group? He's a raw player with plus physical attributes.
Click to expand...

Are we thinking about the same person? IIRC Hodges ran a <5s 40, has average size and isn't all that explosive on film. What he does have is body control, smooth/savvy route running skills, good hands and versatility as an offensive weapon. I compared him to Nick O'Leary and I think others made similar comments.
 
HighSeas said:
Are we thinking about the same person? IIRC Hodges ran a <5s 40, has average size and isn't all that explosive on film. What he does have is body control, smooth/savvy route running skills, good hands and versatility as an offensive weapon. I compared him to Nick O'Leary and I think others made similar comments.
Click to expand...

I thought he was very long for a CB prospect, and had above average SH and Vertical?
 
Advertisement
Back
Top