NFL Scouts Evaluates the talent on UM Roster

[Dingaan1828]

TOP doesn't matter. Methodical "move the sticks" teams will have more TOP. Running the clock is no way correlates to scoring more. If it did, teams like Oregon would slow down their offense. It's not how long you take on offense, it's how each possession ends. You do know that teams alternate possessions, right? And, to your question "So how many points will your own offense scoreversus the opponent if they are only on the field for a quarter of the game?", I can only say that maybe you are confusing "more time of possession" with "having more possessions".

BTW, Oregon went 12-2 last year and only won TOP against 1 opponent.

 

[cwoy2j]

I don't believe anything on that blog. I think Manny is full of ****. Plus any scout that's going to wait until the mid rounds to draft Seantrel is a moron, and an unemployed scout.

Umm WOW! If you look at Seantrel's full body of work there's no way he should even be considered a first-mid round pick. He was clearly overweight and underperformed in the weight room for 2 years.. This year, he slimmed down but he's still isnt a dominating OL like he was projected to be.

Right now, all anyone can say about Seantrel is that he has "All-world" potential... Unfortunately, they've been saying this for 4 years now! He hasn't put the work in until this year.. IMO, Seantrel will only be a first-mid round pick if he stays his senior year and DOMINATES! He needs to show that his on and off the field issues are clearly behind him.

Man, I really don't get it. Have you watched him the last few games? I mean zeroed in and watched closely? He dominated the German kid....he was kicking his *** up and down the field.

Look I know he's had issues, and I agree with his performance issues the last couple years, but the guy has been dominating the last few games. He's impressive when you really watch him. Great feet.

Uh, have you watched him the LAST FEW YEARS? Puh-lease. Please don't tell me you honestly believe that a few good games erases an entire career of mediocrity? Oh, that's right...because he wears a U on his helmet, it is blasphemous to say that he isn't going until the mid rounds.

Get your head out your ***. We are a horrible football team, with horrible talent, and questionable coordinators.

What does me disagreeing with the assessment on Seantrel have to do with the teams talent level or our coordinators. I am not blinded by the U at all....and if he gets drafted late so be it.

He may have issues etc, but denying the kids talent is just stupid. Wish some of our oline gurus would weigh in on Seantrel. Very curious to get their take.

I agree with the assessment of our older talent, and our poor coaching. I would have liked to hear what the scouts thought of the younger guys though. Especially since they got to watch an entire practice.

Al is right. I was at the game and I paid a lot of attention to the Henderson/Werner match-up and Henderson in general. Seantrel had a good game. I bet he grades out well when the coaches look at the tape.

 

[Mico Jones]

TOP doesn't matter. Methodical "move the sticks" teams will have more TOP. Running the clock is no way correlates to scoring more. If it did, teams like Oregon would slow down their offense. It's not how long you take on offense, it's how each possession ends. You do know that teams alternate possessions, right? And, to your question "So how many points will your own offense scoreversus the opponent if they are only on the field for a quarter of the game?", I can only say that maybe you are confusing "more time of possession" with "having more possessions".

BTW, Oregon went 12-2 last year and only won TOP against 1 opponent.

If you think TOP doesn't matter then you know nothing about football.

"Running the clock more in now way correlates to scoring more."

No it correlates to the opposing offense scoring less.

"Time of possesion" and "having more possessions" are part of the same game.

Oregon runs no huddle so that they can get more scoring opportunities. They also play a zone blitzing scheme to try and get their offense the ball back.

Methodical offensive teams slow the game down and limit possessions.

Miami's defensive philosophy is let the other team dink and dunk you and hopefully they make a mistake or we make a play or keep them out of the red zone.

That philosophy will keep the ball out of Miami's offensive hands forcing the offense to become more efficient.

Miami's offense want to hurry the game up to get more possessions. That means that the defense will be on the field more than normal.

Therefore the combination of styles is counterintuative.

The defensive style puts more stress on our team to be more efficient on offense while the offensive style forces the defensive to be out on the field longer than normal when stylistically they already are going to be on the field longer than normal.

You are not giving your players the best chance to succeed.

Meanwhile the results are poor. If we were to holding people in the 20s its one thing. but we aren't.

Either the offense needs to run the ball more and slow the game down like last year or the defense needs to attacke and try to force the action.

 

[Dingaan1828]

But, if you're saying "let's limit the total number of possessions in the game", then I agree. If that's your goal, then taking maximum time to run each play, and concentrating on just moving the sticks, will do that. It will limit the number of possessions for BOTH TEAMS. Either playing up tempo, or a slow methodical game, is a double edged sword in both cases. The goal, of course, is to maximize your efficiency on BOTH sides of the ball. We were slow as **** running plays last year. Didn't help.

Tell Chip Kelly he knows nothing about football. The dude is 42-6 not worrying about TOP. Score points. Let your defense stop the other guys. If they can't do that, then work on getting better on that side of the ball.

TOP is the most useless statistic in football.

 

[GhostofVenice01]

LOL gotta love the FB board, now "the article is fake","The article was written by a poster"

 

[umhurricano]

We know our talent is poor. What I don't get is that people continue to draw a handful of conclusions from what they see:

1) Our coordinators are awful - The article points out that our coordinators could make a few adjustments, not that the schemes are fundamentally flawed. They are starting to make those adjustments. For D'Onofrio it's being more aggressive, which he was against FSU. For Fisch it is running more, which he is not doing because teams are stacking the box and Morris is not hitting his receivers, who still have some developing to do. I find it hard to believe Fisch will not run more once we develop some vertical threats and aren't playing from behind/needing to score a lot of points. When you feel you have to score every possession it is hard to play the averages of 4 yards a carry, rather you have to try to keep the D off balance and strike opportunistically.

2) Our talent will always be bad and not develop - a handful of guys have already developed very well and way ahead of what is the typical schedule for player development (2+ years). Having freshman that are not game ready is normal, not a sign that they will always suck.

3) We are doing poorly this year - obviously this is relative. Given our experience and the teams we have played, I think we should reserve judgment until after these last 4 games. Think about this, KState was 7-6 two years ago and Notre Dame was 8-5. What a difference two years can make.

 

[JHallCanes]

LOL gotta love the FB board, now "the article is fake","The article was written by a poster"

I couldn't stomach reading the whole thing but I see we are now discussing whether TOP is relevant or not.

I'm ******* out of this thread.

 

[Mico Jones]

But, if you're saying "let's limit the total number of possessions in the game", then I agree. If that's your goal, then taking maximum time to run each play, and concentrating on just moving the sticks, will do that. It will limit the number of possessions for BOTH TEAMS. Either playing up tempo, or a slow methodical game, is a double edged sword in both cases. The goal, of course, is to maximize your efficiency on BOTH sides of the ball. We were slow as **** running plays last year. Didn't help.

Tell Chip Kelly he knows nothing about football. The dude is 42-6 not worrying about TOP. Score points. Let your defense stop the other guys. If they can't do that, then work on getting better on that side of the ball.

TOP is the most useless statistic in football.

Time of posession is relevant in relation to number of posessions. Greater TOP usually equals less NOP and vice versa. So it is highly relevant.

Chip Kelly's philosophy does not care about TOP because he's trying to increase his NOP and part of that philosphy is not just his no huddle offense but a blitzing zone defense that emhpasizes takeaways versus points allowed.

LMAO. Please quit overrating Kelly. Dude beats up on some bad defenses. His style has shown zero effectiveness against good defensive squads. Taht's why his team shrinks in bowl games.

Your view is myopic. If fails to take into account the full scope of the game on both sides of the ball and that football players are human beings. The longer the defense (especially one low on talented depth like ours) is on the field the easier it is for them to be worn out in the run game. It gets compounded when your offensive philosophy is not one of ball posession.

The longer a team possesses the ball the less the other does. The longer a team posseses the ball the longer the defense is out on the field. the percentages say you will lose out in this scenario more often than not.

 

[DaU83]

And yet you will never win a game because you held the ball longer than the other one.

Also there was nothing saying our coordinators were terrible, they suggested some adjustments or questioned some play calling..but there was nothing saying "these guys are terrible"

 

[Dingaan1828]

Defenses get worn out defending plays, not because they are standing on the field while the clock is running and the other guys have the ball. Up tempo offenses put a lot of pressure on defenses on this fact alone. Methodical offenses do the opposite. That's why I say it's a double edged sword. An up tempo offense that moves the sticks is a defensive nightmare unless you are in super condition.

Overrating Kelly? Only one team each year wins the NC. Do the other 119 suck? There is nothing overrated about Chip Kelly. Tell me you wouldn't hire him in a heart beat.

But, we are just going to disagree.

 

[LuCane]

LOL @ NFL scouts. That looks like it was ripped right off of a message board. There isn't any special insight in there whatsoever. In fact, there's better insight on these boards.

 

[BigCaneAl]

Defenses get worn out defending plays, not because they are standing on the field while the clock is running and the other guys have the ball. Up tempo offenses put a lot of pressure on defenses on this fact alone. Methodical offenses do the opposite. That's why I say it's a double edged sword. An up tempo offense that moves the sticks is a defensive nightmare unless you are in super condition.

Overrating Kelly? Only one team each year wins the NC. Do the other 119 suck? There is nothing overrated about Chip Kelly. Tell me you wouldn't hire him in a heart beat.

But, we are just going to disagree.

The most amazing thing Kelly has done in his tenure at Oregon is managing to get caught paying a middle man to get a recruit to sign with Oregon, then also getting caught trying to cover it up....and making that all dissapear and nobody even mentions it.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

We know our talent is poor. What I don't get is that people continue to draw a handful of conclusions from what they see:

1) Our coordinators are awful - The article points out that our coordinators could make a few adjustments, not that the schemes are fundamentally flawed. They are starting to make those adjustments. For D'Onofrio it's being more aggressive, which he was against FSU. For Fisch it is running more, which he is not doing because teams are stacking the box and Morris is not hitting his receivers, who still have some developing to do. I find it hard to believe Fisch will not run more once we develop some vertical threats and aren't playing from behind/needing to score a lot of points. When you feel you have to score every possession it is hard to play the averages of 4 yards a carry, rather you have to try to keep the D off balance and strike opportunistically.

2) Our talent will always be bad and not develop - a handful of guys have already developed very well and way ahead of what is the typical schedule for player development (2+ years). Having freshman that are not game ready is normal, not a sign that they will always suck.

3) We are doing poorly this year - obviously this is relative. Given our experience and the teams we have played, I think we should reserve judgment until after these last 4 games. Think about this, KState was 7-6 two years ago and Notre Dame was 8-5. What a difference two years can make.

Solid post.

 

[PowerIslam aka Sumdumgoy]

This article says nothing we didnt already know

 

[bigpurk45]

Need to get Coley huh? I thought he had attitude problems.....smh

The thing is we need to get people with attitudes.... thats what you call SWAG... we need that back... we need people to play with attitudes and aggressiveness, people to play with chips on their shoulders...

 

[DemCanes]

NFL scouts observe players! The bit about D' Onofrio & Fisch was a bit over the top.

 

[AtrainCane]

TOP doesn't matter. Methodical "move the sticks" teams will have more TOP. Running the clock is no way correlates to scoring more. If it did, teams like Oregon would slow down their offense. It's not how long you take on offense, it's how each possession ends. You do know that teams alternate possessions, right? And, to your question "So how many points will your own offense scoreversus the opponent if they are only on the field for a quarter of the game?", I can only say that maybe you are confusing "more time of possession" with "having more possessions".

BTW, Oregon went 12-2 last year and only won TOP against 1 opponent.

If you think TOP doesn't matter then you know nothing about football.

"Running the clock more in now way correlates to scoring more."

No it correlates to the opposing offense scoring less.

"Time of possesion" and "having more possessions" are part of the same game.

Oregon runs no huddle so that they can get more scoring opportunities. They also play a zone blitzing scheme to try and get their offense the ball back.

Methodical offensive teams slow the game down and limit possessions.

Miami's defensive philosophy is let the other team dink and dunk you and hopefully they make a mistake or we make a play or keep them out of the red zone.

That philosophy will keep the ball out of Miami's offensive hands forcing the offense to become more efficient.

Miami's offense want to hurry the game up to get more possessions. That means that the defense will be on the field more than normal.

Therefore the combination of styles is counterintuative.

The defensive style puts more stress on our team to be more efficient on offense while the offensive style forces the defensive to be out on the field longer than normal when stylistically they already are going to be on the field longer than normal.

You are not giving your players the best chance to succeed.

Meanwhile the results are poor. If we were to holding people in the 20s its one thing. but we aren't.

Either the offense needs to run the ball more and slow the game down like last year or the defense needs to attacke and try to force the action.

This sh*t right here.

 

[canadianhurricane]

Umm WOW! If you look at Seantrel's full body of work there's no way he should even be considered a first-mid round pick. He was clearly overweight and underperformed in the weight room for 2 years.. This year, he slimmed down but he's still isnt a dominating OL like he was projected to be.

Right now, all anyone can say about Seantrel is that he has "All-world" potential... Unfortunately, they've been saying this for 4 years now! He hasn't put the work in until this year.. IMO, Seantrel will only be a first-mid round pick if he stays his senior year and DOMINATES! He needs to show that his on and off the field issues are clearly behind him.

Man, I really don't get it. Have you watched him the last few games? I mean zeroed in and watched closely? He dominated the German kid....he was kicking his *** up and down the field.

Look I know he's had issues, and I agree with his performance issues the last couple years, but the guy has been dominating the last few games. He's impressive when you really watch him. Great feet.

Uh, have you watched him the LAST FEW YEARS? Puh-lease. Please don't tell me you honestly believe that a few good games erases an entire career of mediocrity? Oh, that's right...because he wears a U on his helmet, it is blasphemous to say that he isn't going until the mid rounds.

Get your head out your ***. We are a horrible football team, with horrible talent, and questionable coordinators.

What does me disagreeing with the assessment on Seantrel have to do with the teams talent level or our coordinators. I am not blinded by the U at all....and if he gets drafted late so be it.

He may have issues etc, but denying the kids talent is just stupid. Wish some of our oline gurus would weigh in on Seantrel. Very curious to get their take.

I agree with the assessment of our older talent, and our poor coaching. I would have liked to hear what the scouts thought of the younger guys though. Especially since they got to watch an entire practice.

Al is right. I was at the game and I paid a lot of attention to the Henderson/Werner match-up and Henderson in general. Seantrel had a good game. I bet he grades out well when the coaches look at the tape.

Guys, seantrel may have looked great the last couple of games but he's was backing up a freshman to start the season.

Talent isn't the issue with this kid, talent alone is the only reason we are having this discussion. Seantrel seems like a guy who you constantly have to push. He appears to need a carrot dangled over his head to get his work done. You gamble on immature wr's and cb's. NOT Olineman!

Our argument is whether Seantrel is a first-mid round pick. The answer is NO. He's not even going to be a all conference selection. How do you draft him soo early?

 

[Larry]

I, too, question some of the legitimacy of this article...it is pretty rare you'll see scout's open up and give quotes, even anonymously...nevermind to see give their opinion of the coaching.

The only time I see pro scout quotes are when it comes NFL Draft time and they just chat and banter about their opinions on prospects, and that is AFTER the season and always anonymously.

This just seems a little manufactured. I mean, I am pretty sure you can dig up some of my old posts and I've said some of the things in that article verbatim...obvious stuff is obvious and I don't see a pro scout coming out with said quotes mid-season.

 

[Larry]

But, if you're saying "let's limit the total number of possessions in the game", then I agree. If that's your goal, then taking maximum time to run each play, and concentrating on just moving the sticks, will do that. It will limit the number of possessions for BOTH TEAMS. Either playing up tempo, or a slow methodical game, is a double edged sword in both cases. The goal, of course, is to maximize your efficiency on BOTH sides of the ball. We were slow as **** running plays last year. Didn't help.

Tell Chip Kelly he knows nothing about football. The dude is 42-6 not worrying about TOP. Score points. Let your defense stop the other guys. If they can't do that, then work on getting better on that side of the ball.

TOP is the most useless statistic in football.

Chip Kelly also runs of the most plays per game in college football.

But, funny you say that Time of Possession is the most useless stat in football...

Some of the top teams in the category...

Florida (4th)
Alabama (6th)
Oregon State (10th)
Notre Dame (14th)
Louisville (16th)

They total 2 losses between all five of them.