Nelson transforms body, in line to start against UF

[CFDan]

1. True freshman.
2. Two-star on Rivals.
3. Weighed 240 pounds six months ago.
4. Next best offer was Appalachian State.

Context is everything, my friend. And when looking at this in context, it's worrisome. Doesn't mean Zion's doomed to failure - I just wish we weren't in this position.

#3 in your listing is my favorite i've heard yet. read that on another board as well. i guess it's relevant WHATSOEVER, in ANY sense, what a player weighed in high school 6 months ago. what he weights now, well that's no big deal. but what he weighed 6 months ago is what's important to really keep in mind.

 

[Katzenboyer]

#3 in your listing is my favorite i've heard yet. read that on another board as well. i guess it's relevant WHATSOEVER, in ANY sense, what a player weighed in high school 6 months ago. what he weights now, well that's no big deal. but what he weighed 6 months ago is what's important to really keep in mind.

It's relevant because how a player carries his weight is incredibly, incredibly important to being a competent offensive lineman.

He's 290 now. Great. How is his core strength? How about his bend? Does the weight allow him to stand up to a bullrush? Does the added weight give him functional strength to drive block? Does he move well enough carrying that extra weight to handle speed rushers?

Or has he just added pounds without any idea how to use the extra weight? A 50-60 pound jump in weight is HUGE; it'd be nice to allow him time (redshirt year, couple years behind upperclassmen) to get used to the extra poundage and learn how to use it effectively instead of having to throw him into the fire against a Top 10 opponent the first time he ever sees action in college football.

 

[Katzenboyer]

None of those figures apply now, goofball. What does his weight 6 months ago have to do with right now? This is why it makes no sense to try to talk sense to most of the guys on here. He was an App State recruit because he weighed 240 pounds. That and his location in HS is also why he was a 2 star.

Those factors are no longer present, so why bring them up? If he was still 240 pounds and was starting at LT, then you’d have a point. But he isn’t, so you’re spewing nonsense.

It's become a circular argument so I'm going to drop it, but it's relevant because the majority of programs we compete with (or want to compete with) would never have to rely on such a player. Your retort continues to be that guys like me are obsessed with the Bamas and Clemsons of the world.

We're not. I want to be on their level. And those programs (and OSU, and PSU, and ND, and Texas, and Oklahoma, and other non-SEC schools we're looking up at right now) don't have this problem.

 

[CFDan]

It's relevant because how a player carries his weight is incredibly, incredibly important to being a competent offensive lineman.

He's 290 now. Great. How is his core strength? How about his bend? Does the weight allow him to stand up to a bullrush? Does the added weight give him functional strength to drive block? Does he move well enough carrying that extra weight to handle speed rushers?

aren't we all enamored with feeley and the job he's doing? you don't think zion is adding good weight and doing it the right way? lol come on bro, does zion look all fat and sloppy to you? what he weighed in high school is absolutely irrelevant

 

[Katzenboyer]

aren't we all enamored with feeley and the job he's doing? you don't think zion is adding good weight and doing it the right way? lol come on bro, does zion look all fat and sloppy to you? what he weighed in high school is absolutely irrelevant

It's really not. We can be entirely satisfied with the job Feeley is doing (I am) and still raise concerns that making a 50-pound jump in weight might have some growing pains to go with it. There's so much more to the position than simply weighing a lot.

Just my opinion. Are we not allowed to question the fact that our self-described biggest weakness/question mark on this team might be an even bigger question mark if we have to start a true freshman at its most important position? Why is everyone so **** defensive about this?

How would you feel if Matocha was named the starter tomorrow? Wouldn't that immediately raise red flags?

 

[Lokest]

It's relevant because how a player carries his weight is incredibly, incredibly important to being a competent offensive lineman.

He's 290 now. Great. How is his core strength? How about his bend? Does the weight allow him to stand up to a bullrush? Does the added weight give him functional strength to drive block? Does he move well enough carrying that extra weight to handle speed rushers?

Or has he just added pounds without any idea how to use the extra weight? A 50-60 pound jump in weight is HUGE; it'd be nice to allow him time (redshirt year, couple years behind upperclassmen) to get used to the extra poundage and learn how to use it effectively instead of having to throw him into the fire against a Top 10 opponent the first time he ever sees action in college football.

ask the dline

 

[CFDan]

It's really not. We can be entirely satisfied with the job Feeley is doing (I am) and still raise concerns that making a 50-pound jump in weight might have some growing pains to go with it. There's so much more to the position than simply weighing a lot.

Just my opinion. Are we not allowed to question the fact that our self-described biggest weakness/question mark on this team might be an even bigger question mark if we have to start a true freshman at its most important position? Why is everyone so **** defensive about this?

How would you feel if Matocha was named the starter tomorrow? Wouldn't that immediately raise red flags?

Matocha being named the starter wouldnt raise any flags, it would just be extremely surprising. not sure what that has to do with anything?

agree to disagree on zion and the weight thing. i mean, he's winning the job, as determined by an NFL OL coach. i'll just go ahead and trust his judgement until proven otherwise. no one's defensive lol seems to me we're having a conversation

 

[Pentagon Cane]

None of those figures apply now, goofball. What does his weight 6 months ago have to do with right now? This is why it makes no sense to try to talk sense to most of the guys on here. He was an App State recruit because he weighed 240 pounds. That and his location in HS is also why he was a 2 star.

Those factors are no longer present, so why bring them up? If he was still 240 pounds and was starting at LT, then you’d have a point. But he isn’t, so you’re spewing nonsense.

Well, Joaquin Gonzalez walked on, showed up in the fall and by spring ball locked down the right tackle position. Eric Winston was a 250 inline tight end his freshman year and the next year he was a starting tackle. Nelson has been on campus now for 8 months. Maybe just maybe this kid can play. Seems very intelligent, hardworking, and by all accounts the 45 pounds has been good weight. I am cautiously optimistic.

 

[The Sphinx]

1. True freshman.
2. Two-star on Rivals.
3. Weighed 240 pounds six months ago.
4. Next best offer was Appalachian State.

Context is everything, my friend. And when looking at this in context, it's worrisome. Doesn't mean Zion's doomed to failure - I just wish we weren't in this position.

My dude, you're all hung up on **** that is meaningless at this point. He didn't come here a High School AA, but in the 8 months since he got here he's made incredible strides. Give him, Feeley and Barry the credit they deserve.

Look, the coaches aren't stupid. The last thing they want to put out there for opposing defenses to target is a true freshman. Dude is going to get spotlighted every game. He's beaten out Campbell so far, and that kid is not a slouch. Until proven otherwise, just accept the fact that this kid is just good.

Worse case, if they see him struggling they will have a RB/FB/TE chip the DE. And any OL coach or OC worth a **** knows you'can scheme for your Tackles. You cannot scheme for weak interior guys. You lose the middle of the line of scrimmage and you're just fvcked. Period. Which has been our issue the past few years.

Looking at our schedule, I'm not worried. I think he'll be fine. I like the move because it allows him to mature and settle into the position this year so he can be our bookend Tackle for the next 3 years. That's a **** of a security blanket to have for the future.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

It's relevant because how a player carries his weight is incredibly, incredibly important to being a competent offensive lineman.

He's 290 now. Great. How is his core strength? How about his bend? Does the weight allow him to stand up to a bullrush? Does the added weight give him functional strength to drive block? Does he move well enough carrying that extra weight to handle speed rushers?

Or has he just added pounds without any idea how to use the extra weight? A 50-60 pound jump in weight is HUGE; it'd be nice to allow him time (redshirt year, couple years behind upperclassmen) to get used to the extra poundage and learn how to use it effectively instead of having to throw him into the fire against a Top 10 opponent the first time he ever sees action in college football.

In the OP, it was noted that Nelson is now 6'5" 290 with only 14% body fat (that's 40.6 lbs. of fat), up from 240 lbs and 10% body fat (that 24 lbs of fat). That is phenomenal weight gain, but more importantly the numbers say nearly 2/3 of the weight he's gained is muscle. And you're in here dragging your heels about his weight six months ago what that says about his core strength?

C'mon...

 

[Katzenboyer]

My dude, you're all hung up on **** that is meaningless at this point. He didn't come here a High School AA, but in the 8 months since he got here he's made incredible strides. Give him, Feeley and Barry the credit they deserve.

Look, the coaches aren't stupid. The last thing they want to put out there for opposing defenses to target is a true freshman. Dude is going to get spotlighted every game. He's beaten out Campbell so far, and that kid is not a slouch. Until proven otherwise, just accept the fact that this kid is just good.

Worse case, if they see him struggling they will have a RB/FB/TE chip the DE. And any OL coach or OC worth a **** knows you'can scheme for your Tackles. You cannot scheme for weak interior guys. You lose the middle of the line of scrimmage and you're just fvcked. Period. Which has been our issue the past few years.

Looking at our schedule, I'm not worried. I think he'll be fine. I like the move because it allows him to mature and settle into the position this year so he can be our bookend Tackle for the next 3 years. That's a **** of a security blanket to have for the future.

Appreciate the measured response. And I agree with you on most of your points.

My position this entire time is that I want the kid to succeed, but I hate the fact that we need him to this year. If I'm wrong, I want everyone in here to come back and force me to eat crow, because it means we got a **** good player and most likely had a really good season. But before I give the staff credit, I want to see if he can play. The pedigree is not what I would want, but good players are cut from different cloth all the time.

Don't think that's an unreasonable position to take. But I'm rooting for the kid to dominate. I'd much rather be wrong (and have the team succeed as a result) than have him struggle just to be proven right, believe me.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

It's really not. We can be entirely satisfied with the job Feeley is doing (I am) and still raise concerns that making a 50-pound jump in weight might have some growing pains to go with it. There's so much more to the position than simply weighing a lot.

Just my opinion. Are we not allowed to question the fact that our self-described biggest weakness/question mark on this team might be an even bigger question mark if we have to start a true freshman at its most important position? Why is everyone so **** defensive about this?

How would you feel if Matocha was named the starter tomorrow? Wouldn't that immediately raise red flags?

You are certainly allowed, but it is an illogical position to take.

If we agree that LT was a big weakness on the team and a huge question mark going into the season based on the players on the roster and the apparent (at the time) lack of an instant-impact recruit coming in. And we further agree that 99% of us did not expect Nelson to start at LT this season in back in January. Then how does the elevation of Nelson to starting LT equate to "an even bigger question mark" at the position?

For your conclusion to be true, it would necessarily mean that each of the other potential LTs on the roster either got worse through Spring and Summer, or the initial evaluation of them changed for the worse after Spring and Summer. Alternatively, Nelson could just be much better than anticipated because his one limiting attribute was size (particularly, weight) for the position, and he has managed to address that since coming in this January (which is also, by the way, evidence of a killer work ethic... another attribute possessed by successful people).

In most things, the simplest solution is the correct solution.

 

[gcane44]

Well, Joaquin Gonzalez walked on, showed up in the fall and by spring ball locked down the right tackle position. Eric Winston was a 250 inline tight end his freshman year and the next year he was a starting tackle. Nelson has been on campus now for 8 months. Maybe just maybe this kid can play. Seems very intelligent, hardworking, and by all accounts the 45 pounds has been good weight. I am cautiously optimistic.

Don't forget Jason Fox

 

[swampcougar1]

I do not care if a player is a 0 star walk on if they earn the right to start they should start. I am confident an OL coach who has coached in the NFL knows a lot more about it than anyone posting here I am also confidant this staff will not start someone unless they earn it.

 

[Katzenboyer]

You are certainly allowed, but it is an illogical position to take.

If we agree that LT was a big weakness on the team

We do.

...and a huge question mark going into the season based on the players on the roster and the apparent (at the time) lack of an instant-impact recruit coming in.

With you there.

And we further agree that 99% of us did not expect Nelson to start at LT this season in back in January.

Entirely correct.

Then how does the elevation of Nelson to starting LT equate to "an even bigger question mark" at the position?

For your conclusion to be true, it would necessarily mean that each of the other potential LTs on the roster either got worse through Spring and Summer, or the initial evaluation of them changed for the worse after Spring and Summer.

This is where we disagree. I think the far simpler explanation is that the guys in front of Zion flat out stink. And if they flat out stink, and can be beaten out by a true freshman, then all our nightmares about the OL were true (poor coaching, poor development, misidentified recruiting, whatever that may be).

Doesn't mean that Butch can't right the ship, but the OL moreso than any other position takes time.

Alternatively, Nelson could just be much better than anticipated because his one limiting attribute was size (particularly, weight) for the position, and he has managed to address that since coming in this January (which is also, by the way, evidence of a killer work ethic... another attribute possessed by successful people).

This is entirely possible, and I'm not discounting that at all!

In most things, the simplest solution is the correct solution.

...but there's the additional possibility that Zion, right now, isn't all that good either (which is no indictment of him seeing as he was in high school six months ago for chrissakes), but he's the best we've got and everyone else in front of him is objective trash. Either you're right or I am (and I hope that you've got the right of it), but if I am, this season probably doesn't go the way we want it to.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Don't forget Jason Fox

Yep started as a true freshman. I think he came in around 255.

 

[The Franchise]

And Rich Mercier who also started as a true freshman and did a very good job. Total unknown kid from Canada.

 

[Canedog]

Canedog applauds any player who comes in as true freshman and transforms his body and winz his spot. Canedog bee trying to transform his own body two - sheeit ain't easy.

 

[Silver King]

A true freshman starting at LT is a very scary thought.

Yeah, it is, even if he was still around 250 and looking at starting as the LT for App State.

The glass half full view: He's added the weight and sounds like he's kept his athletcism. Most importantly, he's learning to battle against one of the best in the ACC. Now it may not transfer well against an SEC recruited DE, but you never know. He's got a great opportunity to lock in, and I'll bet he plays with a little chip on his shoulder. I don't think we have many more options, and sometimes you have to grow an O-Line.

 

[Darren1]

A true freshman starting at LT is a very scary thought.

The QB appears to be in trouble. OMG