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MOAR UTough

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You have literally no idea what you're talking about if you think tackling is on the strength staff. That might literally be the most technique dependent act on a football field. Master strength coach, please tell me which combination of lifts makes you a good tackler? Which one trains your eyes to focus on the correct spot?

Forms tackles are few and far between and Denzel looked just fine making his against Wake.
Spence was a great tackler and wasn't near prototypical LB standards in the weight room or on the scale.

Next you're going to tell us that receivers Dorsett's case of the drops last year was his fault too
 
ucrew02 said:
You have literally no idea what you're talking about if you think tackling is on the strength staff. That might literally be the most technique dependent act on a football field. Master strength coach, please tell me which combination of lifts makes you a good tackler? Which one trains your eyes to focus on the correct spot?

Forms tackles are few and far between and Denzel looked just fine making his against Wake.
Spence was a great tackler and wasn't near prototypical LB standards in the weight room or on the scale.

Next you're going to tell us that receivers Dorsett's case of the drops last year was his fault too
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Jerk splits, clean and jerks, box squats

I could perform the perfect tackling technique on a collegiate RB but I would still slide right off of him because there's not much force behind it.
I've seen us plenty of times use correct technique only to slip right off of the RB or WR.

Sorry you're struggling to see our S&C weaknesses.
 
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DeadPoets said:
ucrew02 said:
You have literally no idea what you're talking about if you think tackling is on the strength staff. That might literally be the most technique dependent act on a football field. Master strength coach, please tell me which combination of lifts makes you a good tackler? Which one trains your eyes to focus on the correct spot?

Forms tackles are few and far between and Denzel looked just fine making his against Wake.
Spence was a great tackler and wasn't near prototypical LB standards in the weight room or on the scale.

Next you're going to tell us that receivers Dorsett's case of the drops last year was his fault too
Click to expand...

Jerk splits, clean and jerks, box squats

I could have perfect tackling technique on a collegiate RB but I would slide off of him because there's not much force behind it.
I've seen us plenty of times use correct technique only to slip right off of the RB or WR.

Sorry you're struggling to see our S&C weaknesses.
Click to expand...


We have plenty of guys who squat over 400 pounds. One exercise isn't going to make someone a tackler if they cant tackle. I'm employed as a collegiate strength coach, man. I do this **** every **** day. I've been with top 10 teams and i've also been on staff of one of the worst in the country. Tackling is technique. How often do DBs form tackle with a vertical torso and violent hip extension like an oly lift or a box squat? How can a weight room event simulate using your inside arm to keep a blocker off and taking on a ball carrier while doing that? It's not that simplistic. It's naive to even think it is. DBs spend their time diving at knees and ankles and it works. Technique on the field trumps strength off it. There is a balance, sure, but it's a highly skill-dependent game.
 
ucrew02 said:
DeadPoets said:
ucrew02 said:
You have literally no idea what you're talking about if you think tackling is on the strength staff. That might literally be the most technique dependent act on a football field. Master strength coach, please tell me which combination of lifts makes you a good tackler? Which one trains your eyes to focus on the correct spot?

Forms tackles are few and far between and Denzel looked just fine making his against Wake.
Spence was a great tackler and wasn't near prototypical LB standards in the weight room or on the scale.

Next you're going to tell us that receivers Dorsett's case of the drops last year was his fault too
Click to expand...

Jerk splits, clean and jerks, box squats

I could have perfect tackling technique on a collegiate RB but I would slide off of him because there's not much force behind it.
I've seen us plenty of times use correct technique only to slip right off of the RB or WR.

Sorry you're struggling to see our S&C weaknesses.
Click to expand...


We have plenty of guys who squat over 400 pounds. One exercise isn't going to make someone a tackler if they cant tackle. I'm employed as a collegiate strength coach, man. I do this **** every **** day. I've been with top 10 teams and i've also been on staff of one of the worst in the country. Tackling is technique. How often do DBs form tackle with a vertical torso and violent hip extension like an oly lift or a box squat? How can a weight room event simulate using your inside arm to keep a blocker off and taking on a ball carrier while doing that? It's not that simplistic. It's naive to even think it is. DBs spend their time diving at knees and ankles and it works. Technique on the field trumps strength off it. There is a balance, sure, but it's a highly skill-dependent game.
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They do transfer those techniques to the field. The developed hip drive and posterior chain work puts some guys at a huge tackling advantage.
Speed x strength = power
And pure strength (which we do have) that can't be converted to explosive strength is useless for athletes.

There's a reason Denzel Perryman (240lb) hits harder than Jimmy Gaines (240lb) & it isn't form or technique. He's faster and thus generates more explosive power than Gaines does.

How does that relate to training college football players?
As you know Olympic lifts require the recruitment of a lot of fast twitch muscle fibers.

Anyone can squat heavy weights. But it's the guy who can explode out of the box that's going to gain more functional strength as it relates to football. Even if it's lesser weight he's lifting. (Think body builder vs LB - who hits who harder?)

It does matter how it's taught. To ignore this is silly. There are good & bad S&C coaches just like there are good & bad offensive coordinators.
If everyone was doing the same **** there wouldn't be a demand for the high profile guys. And they wouldn't be making 6 figures.
 
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ucrew02 said:
You have literally no idea what you're talking about if you think tackling is on the strength staff. That might literally be the most technique dependent act on a football field. Master strength coach, please tell me which combination of lifts makes you a good tackler? Which one trains your eyes to focus on the correct spot?

Forms tackles are few and far between and Denzel looked just fine making his against Wake.
Spence was a great tackler and wasn't near prototypical LB standards in the weight room or on the scale.

Next you're going to tell us that receivers Dorsett's case of the drops last year was his fault too
Click to expand...

Developing good functional strength is on the strength coach. These guys also need to be able to generate power after a 6 second sprint, or after 4 quarters of work and getting the kids in that kind of condition is on the strength and conditioning staff.

No doubt technique is very important in tackling but you can't sit there and say s&c doesnt play a huge role, at least not with a straight face.

Oh, and a DT isn't going to form tackle , a lot of times he will need to control a gap with arm violence or catch someone coming by him while a guard is pushing on him.

And that doesn't even begin to address our run blocking problems or why we are getting pushed back on the d line
 
Utough can only do so much with inferior or average athletes. Who on defense are our superior athletes? I'd say we have some real good red shirt freshmen, freshmen and a bunch in our new class. But right now on defense our athletes are average at best.
 
fastcane said:
Utough can only do so much with inferior or average athletes. Who on defense are our superior athletes? I'd say we have some real good red shirt freshmen, freshmen and a bunch in our new class. But right now on defense our athletes are average at best.
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Better than the Duke Blue Devils?
 
Applying 'superior athleticism' to 'Duke' in a football sentence that contains 'pushing Miami around' and 'they were gassed' and on top of it turning our very own 4th quarter mantra as if they invented it is the lowest effing low I think I've ever experienced as a Cane fan - really. It hurts more than what I remember from watching the game, and about the same as Virginia's TE's running wild and free in the *** raping slaughter put on us while the OB was being picked over like jackals on a carcass.

FACK!
 
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terdferguson said:
utough isn't the problem. We were wearing down other teams in the 4th quarter earlier in the year. The problem is that our defense can't get off the field and our offense can't stay on it. We've been absolutely demolished in time of possession over the course of the season. These guys on defense have been worn down to a nub at this point. Forget the 4th quarter, we're physically worn down before the game even starts. It's why tackling looks so bad now compared to earlier in the season. That and the fact that these guys have quit.
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THIS right here. Our defense was totally gassed. Its not just about one game. These guys have been on the field ALL SEASON. Every game the time of possession is ridiculously lob sided. This game was no different, and it got worse as Duke ran a no huddle many times, forcing our already thin DL to basically be out there constantly.

Im NOT buying this is Swassey's fault or UTough. So Duke now has a better S&C program than we do? What about all the other years that we've beaten the dogsh*t out of Duke? Swassey was here for those years too.

This team was VERY tough in the 4th quarter earlier this year, so much so that many of us commented on how we havent looked that good in the 4th quarter in years. This isnt about UTough.
 
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CANE4LIFE said:
terdferguson said:
utough isn't the problem. We were wearing down other teams in the 4th quarter earlier in the year. The problem is that our defense can't get off the field and our offense can't stay on it. We've been absolutely demolished in time of possession over the course of the season. These guys on defense have been worn down to a nub at this point. Forget the 4th quarter, we're physically worn down before the game even starts. It's why tackling looks so bad now compared to earlier in the season. That and the fact that these guys have quit.
Click to expand...


THIS right here. Our defense was totally gassed. Its not just about one game. These guys have been on the field ALL SEASON. Every game the time of possession is ridiculously lob sided. This game was no different, and it got worse as Duke ran a no huddle many times, forcing our already thin DL to basically be out there constantly.

Im NOT buying this is Swassey's fault or UTough. So Duke now has a better S&C program than we do? What about all the other years that we've beaten the dogsh*t out of Duke? Swassey was here for those years too.

This team was VERY tough in the 4th quarter earlier this year, so much so that many of us commented on how we havent looked that good in the 4th quarter in years. This isnt about UTough.
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Duke probably does have a better s&c staff than we do. Oh and how can you say our players are gassed and that's not on swasey? Who is supposed to be responsible for our conditioning then?
 
AaronRodgersJewBeard said:
Ernie McCracken said:
AaronRodgersJewBeard said:
We sure seemed tough enough against Florida, who is obviously far more physical than Duke is.

The players just gave up. That's why we're seeing this ****, not because we're not strong enough.
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Where's the evidence that kids gave up?

Florida drove the ball down our throats just like duke and vag did. We benefitted from turnovers, but still got pushed around on the lines.

The one constant from 2002 until present garbage is Swasey. We don't block, tackle, or finish like we used to. He spends more time with the kids than any coach, think about that.
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Oh...they did?

Because I don't remember Florida running on us at all.

They ran the ball 44 times for 122 yards. That's 2.8 yards per carry, and that is outstanding defense. Did they pass the ball on us? Yeah, but we also got turnovers from them passing the ball so much because they suck at passing. The reason Florida, a pretty **** physical team couldn't run the ball on us, is because we were more physical than them.

The team I saw against Florida and the team I saw against Duke are not the same teams. One of them was far more physical, that's my evidence the kids gave up. The scheme didn't change overnight, we haven't seen a change in the scheme the whole **** year.

Our kids are strong enough, and they're physical enough. The problem is that our scheme sucks and the kids know it.
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Maybe the reason you saw two different teams is because UF probably has the worse offense in all of college football... Their starting qb was 3 weeks removed from an appendectomy and their starting rb was a week removed from his viral infection... Outside of 2 plays there defense manhandled us and their mediocre qb had a career day against us... Yes we were able to get turnovers but why did they make it in our redzone so often... I think we gave up the most yards to UF all year long...
 
DeadPoets said:
Gayle Hatch System. Functional strength to produce explosive athletes.
Bring in someone competent.


In a 2005 study (Tricoli), it was determined that Olympic weight lifting was more effective in increasing speed, squat jump performance and counter-movement performance than a vertical jump program. Similarly, in a 2004 study (Hoffman), it was determined that Olympic weight lifting improves vertical jump and 40 speed more than a power lifting program.

Coach Hatch proteges have gone on to coach strength and conditioning at Alabama, LSU, Florida State, Tennessee and more.

http://gaylehatch.com/coaches.htm
Click to expand...

From the above study, some more detail:

Outstanding Gayle Hatch Strength Coaches

Brad Roll - Head Strength and Conditioning Coach for the NFL Cleveland Browns. He had previous NFL Head Strength and Conditioning Coaching jobs at Tampa Bay, Buffalo and Okland. While serving as Head Strength and Conditioning Coach at the University of Miami (FL), the Hurricanes won two NCAA Football National Championships (1989,1991). Roll was Head Strength and Conditioning Coach for the Kansas Jayhawks working closely with the National Championship Basketball Team (1988). In 1981-1986, he served as Head Strength and Conditioning Coach at Southwestern LA now called Louisiana Lafayette from 1981-1986. It was during these 5 years that he studied Olympic Weightlifting under hall of fame coach, Gayle Hatch.

Tom Moffitt - Head Strength and Conditioning Coach at Louisiana State University (LSU). In 2011 LSU won the SEC Football Championship with a 13-0 record.. In 2007 LSU won the BCS National Championship and were SEC Football Champions. 2003 BCS Football National Champions and SEC Football Champions; 2004 Sugar Bowl Champions; 2001 S.E.C. Football Champions. Moffitt came from the University of Miami where his contributions were instrumental in Miami winning the 2001 BCS Football National Championship; Before coaching at Miami, Moffitt spent four seasons as associate strength and conditioning coach at the University of Tennessee. His contributions were a vital part of Tennessee's football team winning the BCS National Championship in 1998. Moffit was named the 1999 Collegiate Football Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Year by the Professional Football Strength and Conditioning Coaches Society. In 2003, Moffitt was named College Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Year by the American Football Monthly.
 
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CANE4LIFE said:
terdferguson said:
utough isn't the problem. We were wearing down other teams in the 4th quarter earlier in the year. The problem is that our defense can't get off the field and our offense can't stay on it. We've been absolutely demolished in time of possession over the course of the season. These guys on defense have been worn down to a nub at this point. Forget the 4th quarter, we're physically worn down before the game even starts. It's why tackling looks so bad now compared to earlier in the season. That and the fact that these guys have quit.
Click to expand...

THIS right here. Our defense was totally gassed. Its not just about one game. These guys have been on the field ALL SEASON. Every game the time of possession is ridiculously lob sided. This game was no different, and it got worse as Duke ran a no huddle many times, forcing our already thin DL to basically be out there constantly.

Im NOT buying this is Swassey's fault or UTough. So Duke now has a better S&C program than we do? What about all the other years that we've beaten the dogsh*t out of Duke? Swassey was here for those years too.

This team was VERY tough in the 4th quarter earlier this year, so much so that many of us commented on how we havent looked that good in the 4th quarter in years. This isnt about UTough.
Click to expand...

Agreed with both of you guys.

To say UTough isn't working is laughable. A good S&C program still isn't going to change 3 star talent into 5 star talent, it doesn't work that way. So much *****ing and moaning about our upperclassmen and depth and people are completely ignoring a sophomore class that has improved leaps and bounds physically. This is the group that will lead us the next year or two and I expect further development from an S&C standpoint.
 
GoldenShowers said:
Guys it's not Swasey's fault. Ten years of inadequacy under three different staffs when he's the only constant-- can't be him......
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Go ask any OL or DL coach worth his salt, SECOND STEP always wins. I don't give a rat's how strong you are at the college level. If the kid you're going against is beating you to the second step is he is getting under your pads, getting leverage and moving you. For example, that kid at Wake Forest is 250 pounds at 5'11" and he is disturbive because he has a lightening quick second step. Vince Wilfork was hardly a physical speciman at Miami. Strong yes, but he was easily 30 pounds overweight. That dude was extremely quick on his feet.
 
Pentagon Cane said:
GoldenShowers said:
Guys it's not Swasey's fault. Ten years of inadequacy under three different staffs when he's the only constant-- can't be him......
Click to expand...

Go ask any OL or DL coach worth his salt, SECOND STEP always wins. I don't give a rat's how strong you are at the college level. If the kid you're going against is beating you to the second step is he is getting under your pads, getting leverage and moving you. For example, that kid at Wake Forest is 250 pounds at 5'11" and he is disturbive because he has a lightening quick second step. Vince Wilfork was hardly a physical speciman at Miami. Strong yes, but he was easily 30 pounds overweight. That dude was extremely quick on his feet.
Click to expand...

Lmao at folks still trying to defend swasey. We are getting mauled out there.
 
capefearcane said:
DeadPoets said:
Gayle Hatch System. Functional strength to produce explosive athletes.
Bring in someone competent.


In a 2005 study (Tricoli), it was determined that Olympic weight lifting was more effective in increasing speed, squat jump performance and counter-movement performance than a vertical jump program. Similarly, in a 2004 study (Hoffman), it was determined that Olympic weight lifting improves vertical jump and 40 speed more than a power lifting program.

Coach Hatch proteges have gone on to coach strength and conditioning at Alabama, LSU, Florida State, Tennessee and more.

http://gaylehatch.com/coaches.htm
Click to expand...

From the above study, some more detail:

Outstanding Gayle Hatch Strength Coaches

Brad Roll - Head Strength and Conditioning Coach for the NFL Cleveland Browns. He had previous NFL Head Strength and Conditioning Coaching jobs at Tampa Bay, Buffalo and Okland. While serving as Head Strength and Conditioning Coach at the University of Miami (FL), the Hurricanes won two NCAA Football National Championships (1989,1991). Roll was Head Strength and Conditioning Coach for the Kansas Jayhawks working closely with the National Championship Basketball Team (1988). In 1981-1986, he served as Head Strength and Conditioning Coach at Southwestern LA now called Louisiana Lafayette from 1981-1986. It was during these 5 years that he studied Olympic Weightlifting under hall of fame coach, Gayle Hatch.

Tom Moffitt - Head Strength and Conditioning Coach at Louisiana State University (LSU). In 2011 LSU won the SEC Football Championship with a 13-0 record.. In 2007 LSU won the BCS National Championship and were SEC Football Champions. 2003 BCS Football National Champions and SEC Football Champions; 2004 Sugar Bowl Champions; 2001 S.E.C. Football Champions. Moffitt came from the University of Miami where his contributions were instrumental in Miami winning the 2001 BCS Football National Championship; Before coaching at Miami, Moffitt spent four seasons as associate strength and conditioning coach at the University of Tennessee. His contributions were a vital part of Tennessee's football team winning the BCS National Championship in 1998. Moffit was named the 1999 Collegiate Football Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Year by the Professional Football Strength and Conditioning Coaches Society. In 2003, Moffitt was named College Strength and Conditioning Coach of the Year by the American Football Monthly.
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And Swasey worked for Moffitt in 1997 and 1998 and came back to be the Head S&C in 2000. S&C wasn't an issue between 2000 and 2003 when Miami went 46-4 and won 32 games in a row. How much lifting did Bryant McKinnie or DJ Williams do with Moffitt? These were different types of athletes.
 
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