Let's talk about our edge rush

[The Dude]

I would expect us to struggle here. Chickillo is more of an effort pass rusher than a dominant edge guy. He tries hard and he'll rack up some sacks but it seems unlikely to me that he will terrorize people off the edge like Freeney. The other side will be someone we've never heard of and it's hard to put faith in that. I think we'll be fairly mediocre in terms of a 4 man rush and I'd expect that we'll have to blitz to get pressure. We may sacrifice the rush at times and go 5 under 3 deep if we realize that we just aren't going to get there. The best friend for these guys would be a middle push but we don't have a guy that we'd expect to give us that either.

These new guys are going to run into things they've never seen before--true athletes at 310+ lbs with long arms who can squash them straight up and have seen guys bigger and faster before. It will take time.

I disagree whole-heatedly with your opinion. You are on to something that Chick is not an elite pass rusher, but he is going to give you 100% play in and play out and by virtue will rack up TFL and sacks. I think he makes a huge jump from his first to second year and his increased strength, experience, and knowledge of situational football will elevate him from an effort guy to an elite edge rusher. Not by speed, but by strength and effort.

In terms of the opposite side I think this is the year that Green shows why he has a scholarship but he does miss a few games due to injury. Cain will make a name for himself in Greens absence and take over the starting DE role.

Sleeper - Dwayne Holliet. Kid is going to impress similar to Chick last year, but what makes him different is the fact that the kid IS and elite athlete and has a handle of the play book and has increased his weight; spring did him well.

As far as the middle of the line, Curtis Porter is exactly the type of player you mentioned that we lacked. He is a beast up the middle and will push the LOS back and disrupt run plays and collapse the pocket. Darius "Plug" Smith will hold down his side and allow Porter, The DE's, and the LB's to make plays. He is your prototypical 3-4 NT.

Here is where I think the Freshmen make an impact. The 3 DT's we have coming in will push out the other DT's and do well.

 

[CanesAreAble]

I would expect us to struggle here. Chickillo is more of an effort pass rusher than a dominant edge guy. He tries hard and he'll rack up some sacks but it seems unlikely to me that he will terrorize people off the edge like Freeney. The other side will be someone we've never heard of and it's hard to put faith in that. I think we'll be fairly mediocre in terms of a 4 man rush and I'd expect that we'll have to blitz to get pressure. We may sacrifice the rush at times and go 5 under 3 deep if we realize that we just aren't going to get there. The best friend for these guys would be a middle push but we don't have a guy that we'd expect to give us that either.

These new guys are going to run into things they've never seen before--true athletes at 310+ lbs with long arms who can squash them straight up and have seen guys bigger and faster before. It will take time.

I disagree whole-heatedly with your opinion. You are on to something that Chick is not an elite pass rusher, but he is going to give you 100% play in and play out and by virtue will rack up TFL and sacks. I think he makes a huge jump from his first to second year and his increased strength, experience, and knowledge of situational football will elevate him from an effort guy to an elite edge rusher. Not by speed, but by strength and effort.

In terms of the opposite side I think this is the year that Green shows why he has a scholarship but he does miss a few games due to injury. Cain will make a name for himself in Greens absence and take over the starting DE role.

Sleeper - Dwayne Holliet. Kid is going to impress similar to Chick last year, but what makes him different is the fact that the kid IS and elite athlete and has a handle of the play book and has increased his weight; spring did him well.

As far as the middle of the line, Curtis Porter is exactly the type of player you mentioned that we lacked. He is a beast up the middle and will push the LOS back and disrupt run plays and collapse the pocket. Darius "Plug" Smith will hold down his side and allow Porter, The DE's, and the LB's to make plays. He is your prototypical 3-4 NT.

Here is where I think the Freshmen make an impact. The 3 DT's we have coming in will push out the other DT's and do well.

That's just too much speculation, IMO.

All of that COULD happen, but we were a bad, bad defense last year (even though the numbers don't suggest it).

We have a long way to go simply to be mediocre.

 

[Bigtip]

why does everyone think that Cain is gonna be any good at DE? did I miss something? isn't he severely undersized?

 

[CanesAreAble]

why does everyone think that Cain is gonna be any good at DE? did I miss something? isn't he severely undersized?

No clue. Shayon Green at least looked somewhat disruptive in very limited minutes.

I thought Cain was brutally slow for a LB. He's adequately fast for a DE, but can he hold up? We'll have to wait and see.

 

[jevoasis]

Our best chances on D rest on Green being everything we're hoping him to be. Its just not realistic to expect any of the freshmenz to produce significantly. Rico Williams would be an ideal candidate to take snaps here and contribute since he's been here longer, but it doesn't look like the light's come on for him. Would also be nice to 'shirt McCord, but its not looking like we will be able to. A healthy Green opens up the blitz and lets us hold the edge.

 

[Canesfan1899]

We have an edge pass rush?

Not in a few years. It would be nice to see Porter collapsing the pocket from the inside, will make the DE's job much easier.

 

[Mangum]

Jake O'Donnell. Where does he fit in? Kid is supposedly at 260 now as a DE. Is he considered to be in the rush end role, or is he more of a Contain / Run Stuff guy?

 

[Canesfan1899]

I think O'Donnell is a kid who could surprise. I like that we have 3 freshman coming in at weights making them ready for PT (O'Donnell, Hamilton, and Hoilett). Hopefully K. Cain and S. Green can offer some explosiveness on the opposite side of Chick, it would keep teams from doubling or chipping Chick on passing downs.

 

[brittle757]

I would expect us to struggle here. Chickillo is more of an effort pass rusher than a dominant edge guy. He tries hard and he'll rack up some sacks but it seems unlikely to me that he will terrorize people off the edge like Freeney. The other side will be someone we've never heard of and it's hard to put faith in that. I think we'll be fairly mediocre in terms of a 4 man rush and I'd expect that we'll have to blitz to get pressure. We may sacrifice the rush at times and go 5 under 3 deep if we realize that we just aren't going to get there. The best friend for these guys would be a middle push but we don't have a guy that we'd expect to give us that either.

These new guys are going to run into things they've never seen before--true athletes at 310+ lbs with long arms who can squash them straight up and have seen guys bigger and faster before. It will take time.

I disagree whole-heatedly with your opinion. You are on to something that Chick is not an elite pass rusher, but he is going to give you 100% play in and play out and by virtue will rack up TFL and sacks. I think he makes a huge jump from his first to second year and his increased strength, experience, and knowledge of situational football will elevate him from an effort guy to an elite edge rusher. Not by speed, but by strength and effort.

In terms of the opposite side I think this is the year that Green shows why he has a scholarship but he does miss a few games due to injury. Cain will make a name for himself in Greens absence and take over the starting DE role.

Sleeper - Dwayne Holliet. Kid is going to impress similar to Chick last year, but what makes him different is the fact that the kid IS and elite athlete and has a handle of the play book and has increased his weight; spring did him well.

As far as the middle of the line, Curtis Porter is exactly the type of player you mentioned that we lacked. He is a beast up the middle and will push the LOS back and disrupt run plays and collapse the pocket. Darius "Plug" Smith will hold down his side and allow Porter, The DE's, and the LB's to make plays. He is your prototypical 3-4 NT.

Here is where I think the Freshmen make an impact. The 3 DT's we have coming in will push out the other DT's and do well.

That's just too much speculation, IMO.

All of that COULD happen, but we were a bad, bad defense last year (even though the numbers don't suggest it).

We have a long way to go simply to be mediocre.

+1 I think you're pretty spot on with your assessment of him, I think Sherit is about the same, only difference is Sherit is a little more athletically gifted, but I don't wanna drift too far off the topic, hopefully some of the freshman can give us some sparks off the edge. I really was hoping Rico would emerge but I haven't heard good news about him, so we'll see, McCord just needs to add bulk, still too small but that's expected from a true freshman.

 

[BWCD]

We have an edge pass rush?

This is the best thing in the whole thread so far. Too many variables to figure on how we're going to have a pass rush off the edge this upcoming season. My advice--go in expecting nothing, and be happily surprised when one of these newer guys steps up and helps out. If we pump these guys up to be another Chickillo, we're only going to end up with disappointment.

It's possible Chickillo has a sophomore slump due to double-teams/chips and doesn't put out the same numbers he did last year. It's possible that Shayon Green never plays a snap due to injury. It's possible that Cain has to step back to LB due to injuries back there. It's entirely possible that the learning curve for the Freshmen is just too big and none of them get significant burn this year.

I'm a Niners fan when it comes to NFL ball. I hated the pick of Aldon Smith when they drafted him (I was hoping for Gabbert b/c I didn't think Alex Smith had it in him). I was so ****ed and expected nothing out of Aldon Smith. What does he do? He becomes one of the top situational pass rushers in the game as a rookie, and was ****-near unstoppable in the playoffs.

I don't see an Aldon Smith type of guy on our team right now. Lots of potential guys could be like him and step up big for us, but it's best just to lay back and let it happen instead of getting depressed/****ed when one doesn't come along.

 

[CanesAreAble]

We have an edge pass rush?

This is the best thing in the whole thread so far. Too many variables to figure on how we're going to have a pass rush off the edge this upcoming season. My advice--go in expecting nothing, and be happily surprised when one of these newer guys steps up and helps out. If we pump these guys up to be another Chickillo, we're only going to end up with disappointment.

It's possible Chickillo has a sophomore slump due to double-teams/chips and doesn't put out the same numbers he did last year. It's possible that Shayon Green never plays a snap due to injury. It's possible that Cain has to step back to LB due to injuries back there. It's entirely possible that the learning curve for the Freshmen is just too big and none of them get significant burn this year.

I'm a Niners fan when it comes to NFL ball. I hated the pick of Aldon Smith when they drafted him (I was hoping for Gabbert b/c I didn't think Alex Smith had it in him). I was so ****ed and expected nothing out of Aldon Smith. What does he do? He becomes one of the top situational pass rushers in the game as a rookie, and was ****-near unstoppable in the playoffs.

I don't see an Aldon Smith type of guy on our team right now. Lots of potential guys could be like him and step up big for us, but it's best just to lay back and let it happen instead of getting depressed/****ed when one doesn't come along.

I'm a 9er fan, too, and Aldon Smith is a rare talent. Not too many guys like that around the country.

 

[drifters1234]

I would expect us to struggle here. Chickillo is more of an effort pass rusher than a dominant edge guy. He tries hard and he'll rack up some sacks but it seems unlikely to me that he will terrorize people off the edge like Freeney. The other side will be someone we've never heard of and it's hard to put faith in that. I think we'll be fairly mediocre in terms of a 4 man rush and I'd expect that we'll have to blitz to get pressure. We may sacrifice the rush at times and go 5 under 3 deep if we realize that we just aren't going to get there. The best friend for these guys would be a middle push but we don't have a guy that we'd expect to give us that either.

These new guys are going to run into things they've never seen before--true athletes at 310+ lbs with long arms who can squash them straight up and have seen guys bigger and faster before. It will take time.

I disagree whole-heatedly with your opinion. You are on to something that Chick is not an elite pass rusher, but he is going to give you 100% play in and play out and by virtue will rack up TFL and sacks. I think he makes a huge jump from his first to second year and his increased strength, experience, and knowledge of situational football will elevate him from an effort guy to an elite edge rusher. Not by speed, but by strength and effort.

In terms of the opposite side I think this is the year that Green shows why he has a scholarship but he does miss a few games due to injury. Cain will make a name for himself in Greens absence and take over the starting DE role.

Sleeper - Dwayne Holliet. Kid is going to impress similar to Chick last year, but what makes him different is the fact that the kid IS and elite athlete and has a handle of the play book and has increased his weight; spring did him well.

As far as the middle of the line, Curtis Porter is exactly the type of player you mentioned that we lacked. He is a beast up the middle and will push the LOS back and disrupt run plays and collapse the pocket. Darius "Plug" Smith will hold down his side and allow Porter, The DE's, and the LB's to make plays. He is your prototypical 3-4 NT.

Here is where I think the Freshmen make an impact. The 3 DT's we have coming in will push out the other DT's and do well.

That's just too much speculation, IMO.

All of that COULD happen, but we were a bad, bad defense last year (even though the numbers don't suggest it).

We have a long way to go simply to be mediocre.

This

 

[drifters1234]

We have an edge pass rush?

This is the best thing in the whole thread so far. Too many variables to figure on how we're going to have a pass rush off the edge this upcoming season. My advice--go in expecting nothing, and be happily surprised when one of these newer guys steps up and helps out. If we pump these guys up to be another Chickillo, we're only going to end up with disappointment.

It's possible Chickillo has a sophomore slump due to double-teams/chips and doesn't put out the same numbers he did last year. It's possible that Shayon Green never plays a snap due to injury. It's possible that Cain has to step back to LB due to injuries back there. It's entirely possible that the learning curve for the Freshmen is just too big and none of them get significant burn this year.

I'm a Niners fan when it comes to NFL ball. I hated the pick of Aldon Smith when they drafted him (I was hoping for Gabbert b/c I didn't think Alex Smith had it in him). I was so ****ed and expected nothing out of Aldon Smith. What does he do? He becomes one of the top situational pass rushers in the game as a rookie, and was ****-near unstoppable in the playoffs.

I don't see an Aldon Smith type of guy on our team right now. Lots of potential guys could be like him and step up big for us, but it's best just to lay back and let it happen instead of getting depressed/****ed when one doesn't come along.

And this.

 

[5Ringz]

Green is still a very small DE. He is actually a big LBer playing DE. Good pass rusher tho.

Terry will at most be 220 pounds.....and thats a stretch. He won't be a factor and I actually see him playing LB

Rico is ready after he redshirted last year. He is much bigger and will play a lot

McCord is also IMO a LB. I just dont see him playing DE here except for situational packages.

That white boy from PA is supposedly 260 pounds already. Bigger than Chick when he came in. HE WILL PLAY at 6'6 260 pounds.

Pierre will play some DE

Jelani will play a lot. Kid looks like he ready. Beast. Hope his knee is holding up and he isnt rushing it.



So if I had to guess....


Chick on one side...........Jelani, Rico, Shayon, O'Donnel, Pierre on the other side

 

[rok]

From a numbers standpoint, Olsen Pierre should move back to DE. We just brought in 3 new DT's to go along with Porter, Smith, Robinson, Grimble, and King.

Chickillo is the only DE that has proven anything. Cain and Green have at least played a little but if Pierre has maintained some quickness I think he could be the guy to start opposite Chick.

 

[Duval904]

Pierre has a pot belly

 

[canecountry3]

I think the secondary being improved - I'll take Gunter and Freshman Tracy Howard (don't care how raw) over Mike Williams and Lee Chambers - will help the DL more than it staying injury free. The unexpected departure of Armstrong will also prove to be a silver lining. I think it's a pretty much unanimous opinion that he was a liability in pass coverage.

I think we'll see a lot more 'backers blitzing this year. Gunter is a physical player with good size, he isn't getting pushed 15 yards back on swing passes and runs like Mike Williams was.

All things considered, I was impressed with what D'Onifrio & Co. did. That group was extremely weak, there was no depth in the secondary whatsoever, and was missing a bunch of projected starters for varying amounts of time all year. The fact that Miami never got blown out and was basically in every game to the end speaks to the coaches, IMO. Wait until D'Onifrio has some tools in his box - something he never really had at Temple save a few players, and certainly didn't have in 2011 - and he can actually blitz and use an aggressive scheme.

I think this is a 5 or 6 win team on paper... but I don't think it's unrealistic that the defensive numbers, like turnovers and sacks, will improve despite a relatively young unit. Most of the defensive players this year will be in the second year of the system and have improved their strength numbers and, it seemed to me this Spring, their fundamentals.

It may not happen this year, but this defense is going to be pretty intimidating to opposing teams in the near future.

 

[UMFarArcher]

O'Donnell worked out all spring and summer with a personal trainer, busting his *** to get everything up to snuff.

Kid is bull-strong and smart.

That's a given. How he stacks up against others is yet to be determined, but his plus-es right out of the gate are looking really good. And guys - we really NEED some young stuff to explode this year.

 

[LuCane]

I think the secondary being improved - I'll take Gunter and Freshman Tracy Howard (don't care how raw) over Mike Williams and Lee Chambers - will help the DL more than it staying injury free. The unexpected departure of Armstrong will also prove to be a silver lining. I think it's a pretty much unanimous opinion that he was a liability in pass coverage.

I think we'll see a lot more 'backers blitzing this year. Gunter is a physical player with good size, he isn't getting pushed 15 yards back on swing passes and runs like Mike Williams was.

All things considered, I was impressed with what D'Onifrio & Co. did. That group was extremely weak, there was no depth in the secondary whatsoever, and was missing a bunch of projected starters for varying amounts of time all year. The fact that Miami never got blown out and was basically in every game to the end speaks to the coaches, IMO. Wait until D'Onifrio has some tools in his box - something he never really had at Temple save a few players, and certainly didn't have in 2011 - and he can actually blitz and use an aggressive scheme.

I think this is a 5 or 6 win team on paper... but I don't think it's unrealistic that the defensive numbers, like turnovers and sacks, will improve despite a relatively young unit. Most of the defensive players this year will be in the second year of the system and have improved their strength numbers and, it seemed to me this Spring, their fundamentals.

It may not happen this year, but this defense is going to be pretty intimidating to opposing teams in the near future.

That's a solid assessment.

 

[Staybon]

why does everyone think that Cain is gonna be any good at DE? did I miss something? isn't he severely undersized?

I can't remember if Golden said it in a radio interview/youtube/or article but he mentioned that Cain was struggling to keep his weight down at LB so expected him to put on some good weight in the off season to help prepare him for DE. But I think when he's in there it will be more for pass rush situations and in run situations he probably plays more of a 3-4 OLB role than true DE. I think his versatility if used right could add something. I did like how at the spring game he got by Bunche real easy in the one on one drills they ran the endzone before the game. Although it did make me feel nervous about Bunche.