Lets have a Grown Man conversation

We play in a **** stadium for college football. There's no vibe or tradition there that kids can look at and get into. If we rely on official visits where these kids get to experience the night life that won't be enough.
 
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Its why I couldn't blame Keith Brown for being so blown away by the game day experience at Clemson.
 
There are two reasons I can't get on board with this:

1) We still attract more NFL talent than any school in the country.
2) An OK recruiter like Shannon had the #1 rated class in the country with the same problems

The U brand is still strong and the location is unmatched. The sanctions are a real issue this year and that uncertainty is hurting us with the big-timers. But the program still has everything needed for a recruiting powerhouse.
 
You either win or lose a recruiting battle. It's that simple. We're doing okay at best, and I have no idea if that's good enough. None of us will know for several years. What I do know is that we're making a lot of excuses in this thread.

Some of the best local talent is leaving the area. We used to own the area no matter the record or situation.

Social media, television, and the Internet has made getting out of Miami a lot easier regardless of other factors, including cash to players.

The only thing that will help is winning.
 
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The thing I keep reminding myself is with our dog**** attendance and gameday atmosphere, along with our horrible on field performance in a ridiculous conference, I cant believe we still recruit as well as we do, especially when you consider the kids we have to turn away every year.

Just goes to show how much of an impact the past Canes made on the college football world. Helps that Sundays are loaded with our guys too, but we gotta step up there.
 
I was going to start a similar thread. I think a lot of us have a misconception of where this program stands right now. What would really drive a kid to Miami right now (this year)? Playing time is one major factor and education. The first one is big to some kids, but to others not so much. Also, its not like we have been developing talent worth a **** the last few years. Kids dont know about Al Golden and to be honest, he doesnt have a glamorous track record. It is solid, but not flashy.

I think a lot of things are catching up to the program this year. The track record, talent development, and upcoming sanctions are probably a turn off to most.

That being said, the group coming in are great kids that want to be a part of something special. They are looking toward the future, the reward of getting a solid education and turning Miami into something special again.

+1
 
I was going to start a similar thread. I think a lot of us have a misconception of where this program stands right now. What would really drive a kid to Miami right now (this year)? Playing time is one major factor and education. The first one is big to some kids, but to others not so much. Also, its not like we have been developing talent worth a **** the last few years. Kids dont know about Al Golden and to be honest, he doesnt have a glamorous track record. It is solid, but not flashy.

I think a lot of things are catching up to the program this year. The track record, talent development, and upcoming sanctions are probably a turn off to most.

That being said, the group coming in are great kids that want to be a part of something special. They are looking toward the future, the reward of getting a solid education and turning Miami into something special again.

I missed this post trying to get my own point across. Excellent stuff.

Think about it. How would we view Miami if we were, say, a group of Bama fans? The feedback would be painful.

Fortunately for us I think we have a man with a plan in charge. He isnt going anywhere anytime soon either, and we do still have an absurd amount of talent in the area. Couple that with the NFL stars and there is still lots of hope. I just hope Golden is the right man at the right time, because if he fails, we could be on life support.
 
Los, I hear ya, but as k9 has said many, many, many times- we had the same problems in the 80's when Howard and Jimmy we're building the beast and in the 90's when Butch rebuilt it. These are obstacles to overcome and I still think Golden will get it done. I think the threat of crippling sanctions is just killing us with the rest of this class right now, and self-impsing a ban, no matter how logical it may be to do so, reinforced the beleif that whatever we get hit with is going to be worse than how he was selling it to some of these kids. We lost all of our momentum when the Shapiro **** storm hit, and I don't know if we can get it back until it's over.
 
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What sucks the most is that FSU is doing such a great job recruiting.

If they get Eddie Goldman... man look out. Their defensive line is going to be sick... I mean just sick.

If FSU is out there winning championships, then we start to lose our backyard.

So excuses or no, this years class matters. Last year's class mattered. Next year's is vital.

We are doing alright given our situation, but I wonder if it will be enough when all is said and done.
 
Couple that with the NFL stars and there is still lots of hope. I just hope Golden is the right man at the right time, because if he fails, we could be on life support.

This is what I fear

I tend to think it really all comes to down to the coach. I've always despite the howls of most that this isn't a quick fix. It'll take winning again to attract a lot of the higher profile national guys.

I think being private school could be an advantage but it doesn't seem like any staff we have had uses it but that's from my limited perspective in following recruiting
 
Here we go making excuses.... and why post this **** on the recruiting board so recruits can see this...why post this **** at all.. dumb *** mod gonna dumb *** mod..
 
"So recruits can see this"? Like they won't know if Miami has issues without us talking about it? Is that what you're trying to imply?

"Why post this **** at all"? Because reasonably intelligent adults try to discuss things. Particularly on message boards that are also known as discussion forums.

Anyway I wanted to start a thread like this earlier in the week but I never did. I've made posts talking about some of the issues the program faces. I definitely agree that the future is in Golden's hands. If he fails this program is going to potentially be hurting for a good while longer. What truly concerns me about that is that none of the major issues are going to be changing for the better anytime soon. Miami is going to have a **** off campus stadium for the next 15 years at the least. Fan support in the area is not going to drastically improve in the near future if at all. The facilities may never match what all the major college football programs have right now.

I just feel like Miami is fighting against a group of stacked opponents without all the things necessary to give them the best chance to compete. We have some of the things but I think we're missing more than a few of the absolutely crucial ones. DMoney's reasons for disagreeing seem extraordinarily weak to me. The brand is still strong? It's never been weaker. The location is unmatched? Compared to what? Campus to campus and facility to facility? Where these kids will be spending the vast majority of their time? I think you'd have a hard time arguing that one. I don't see how Miami has all the things to be a recruiting power house at all. Booster support? Campus life? Gameday atmosphere? Fan support? Facilities? Alumni base outside of the NFL/football team?

It's just really hard for me to see a light at the end of the tunnel and it sucks.
 
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Los, I hear ya, but as k9 has said many, many, many times- we had the same problems in the 80's when Howard and Jimmy we're building the beast and in the 90's when Butch rebuilt it. These are obstacles to overcome and I still think Golden will get it done. I think the threat of crippling sanctions is just killing us with the rest of this class right now, and self-impsing a ban, no matter how logical it may be to do so, reinforced the beleif that whatever we get hit with is going to be worse than how he was selling it to some of these kids. We lost all of our momentum when the Shapiro **** storm hit, and I don't know if we can get it back until it's over.

I keep hearing this but many people fail to realize that the landscape has completely changed since those times. From high school 7-man, recruiting forms (twitter, facebook, budgets), student stipends, school budgets, power conferences, etc. The ACC set this school back several years but so did the administration. Comparing now to the 80's and 90's is really not valid anymore. I am not saying it is impossible to overcome the deficiencies we have with the stadium, facilities, etc but what was once a mole hill is now a mountain.
 
Here we go making excuses.... and why post this **** on the recruiting board so recruits can see this...why post this **** at all.. dumb *** mod gonna dumb *** mod..


This will be your one and only warning from me....if you come at me or anyone else like that again outside the WEZ....you'll be gone from Canesinsight.- Los
 
I just feel like Miami is fighting against a group of stacked opponents without all the things necessary to give them the best chance to compete. We have some of the things but I think we're missing more than a few of the absolutely crucial ones. DMoney's reasons for disagreeing seem extraordinarily weak to me. The brand is still strong? It's never been weaker. The location is unmatched? Compared to what? Campus to campus and facility to facility? Where these kids will be spending the vast majority of their time? I think you'd have a hard time arguing that one. I don't see how Miami has all the things to be a recruiting power house at all. Booster support? Campus life? Gameday atmosphere? Fan support? Facilities? Alumni base outside of the NFL/football team?

It's just really hard for me to see a light at the end of the tunnel and it sucks.

Gotta make MIAMI "South Florida's Team" period. Just like Schnellenberger did. AG's a lot like him imo, and he's doing all the right things.

Here's an article from February 2011:

Canes to renew efforts locally


For whatever reason, Miami began to recruit fewer and fewer players from the surrounding three counties (Miami-Dade, Palm Beach and Broward) toward the end of Randy Shannon's tenure, and new coach Al Golden has made it a priority to reverse that trend.

On Thursday, Golden held the first of three "Golden Greets," one to be held for high school coaches from each of the three counties. About 100 coaches from Miami-Dade County mingled with Golden and his staff before heading over to the Canes' men's basketball game. Palm Beach coaches are scheduled to visit on Feb. 20 and Broward coaches on March 2. The idea is to repair relationships that might have been damaged by the previous staff ignoring these schools.

Miami signed only five players from those three counties this cycle, and four of them committed after Golden took over the program. "That will never happen again at the University of Miami," Golden said on national signing day.

"We've got to get back to developing and improving our relationships with the high school coaches," Golden said.

"I felt real comfortable down there again where you can go visit and know you'll get the help you need as a high school coach," Miami LaSalle said coach Willie Trimmer "They're definitely on the right track there."
 
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There are two reasons I can't get on board with this:

1) We still attract more NFL talent than any school in the country.
2) An OK recruiter like Shannon had the #1 rated class in the country with the same problems

The U brand is still strong and the location is unmatched. The sanctions are a real issue this year and that uncertainty is hurting us with the big-timers. But the program still has everything needed for a recruiting powerhouse.

Yes, we attract more NFL talent than any other school...but have you seen the way they play HERE?
Shannon had the #1 class on his honeymoon...no sanctions looming and a better feeling about the direction of the program nationally and even locally. However, those degraded quickly during his tenure.
 
February 23, 2011 Steve Megargee Rivals.com College Football Staff Writer

Miami's Al Golden never has coached in south Florida, but he's smart enough to copy the strategy that earned his predecessors championship rings.

His recruiting philosophy, for instance, comes straight out of Howard Schnellenberger's playbook.

New Miami head coach Al Golden says recruiting south Florida is a top priority.

Schnellenberger focused on signing all the best prospects from south Florida, which he referred to as the "State of Miami." That strategy helped Miami win each of its five national titles, including the first under Schnellenberger in 1983. Golden has a different name for the area -- he calls it the "Eye of the Storm" -- but he wants to make sure Miami lands the top players in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties.

"If every school in the country is coming here to recruit," Golden says, "why wouldn't we want the majority of our class to be from Florida?"

Golden has indicated Miami will continue to recruit nationally, but he also knows the Hurricanes must do a better job of protecting their borders.

Much better.

Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties have produced a total of 48 four- and five-star prospects in the past two years. Incredibly, Miami signed only two -- running back Eduardo Clements of Miami Booker T. Washington and offensive lineman Brandon Linder of Fort Lauderdale St. Thomas Aquinas. Miami didn't get any of the top 21 prospects in those three counties earlier this month.

By contrast, Florida State and Florida each have signed nine four- or five-star prospects from those three counties over the past two years. And the Hurricanes aren't merely losing these prospects to in-state rivals: Louisville signed four four-star recruits from Miami-Dade this year alone.

Golden, 41, would seem like an unlikely candidate to change this trend. The former Temple coach wasn't a familiar name to most south Florida players, coaches or fans before taking this job. Miami center Tyler Horn admits he "had no idea" who Golden was before hearing the rumors linking him to the job. Golden replaced Randy Shannon, who played for the Hurricanes and spent his entire coaching career in Miami.

If Shannon couldn't keep south Florida's top players in the area, how is a newcomer to the area going to succeed? Golden has answered that question by spending his first few months on the job doing everything possible to strengthen Miami's local recruiting efforts.

Shut out

Miami's ability to regain its status as a national power under Al Golden depends heavily upon whether the Hurricanes can protect their home base in recruiting. Miami didn't sign any of the 21 Class of 2011 four- or five-star prospects from Miami-Dade, Broward or Palm Beach counties.

He has established an open-door policy with high school coaches in the area. He has dramatically lowered the price of admission to the school's football camp. He has scheduled informal gatherings with high school coaches in each of the three counties. He has offered area high school coaches unlimited access to Miami's spring practice.

"He's doing a tremendous job," says Miami Central coach Telly Lockette, whose team won the Class 6A state title and finished 14th nationally in the RivalsHigh 100 last season. "He's letting it be known he's trying to win in his backyard. I think the coaches previous [to him] got away from that.

"He's trying to do the Howard Schnellenberger tri-county thing -- Dade, Broward and Palm Beach. You look at Howard Schnellenberger and how he built the University of Miami. The blueprint's already there."

That's the blueprint for succeeding in the long term. First, the Hurricanes have to improve their short-term results. UM hasn't won as many as 10 games since 2003 and hasn't appeared in any of the six ACC championship games. Shannon was fired shortly after the Hurricanes closed a 7-5 regular season with a 23-20 overtime loss to USF in front of a half-empty Sun Life Stadium crowd. The Hurricanes lost 33-17 to Notre Dame in the Sun Bowl with Jeff Stoutland serving as interim coach.

"The two things that need to be improved are easy," Golden says. "Turnover margin and penalties."

The irony of Shannon's tenure is that he dramatically improved Miami's behavior off the field -- the Hurricanes had only one player arrested during his four-year regime -- but was undone by the team's lack of discipline in game situations.

Miami averaged 8.23 penalties per game last season and committed 36 turnovers. Baylor and Troy were the only FBS teams penalized more often, while Middle Tennessee was the only FBS program with more turnovers.

Golden already has taken steps to correct that. Horn, a fifth-year senior, said he never has encountered such strenuous offseason workouts. Horn said each workout includes something extra at the end, whether it's flipping tires, pushing sleds or some other activity. The Hurricanes have dubbed that additional session the "Fifth Quarter" and are counting on that extra work to improve their mental toughness.

"We would have great weeks of practice [last season]," Horn says. "We weren't going out there and dogging it. People have to understand that. We had great weeks of practice, but come game time, it would come down to focus. The players were there. Players were able to make plays. But when it came down to making the catch, holding that block or making that tackle, that's where we failed.

Miami center Tyler Horn says the Hurricanes are getting mentally tough under Al Golden
.

"I think this new method of making us mentally tough and finishing every single drill we do will really pay off. That was my thing regarding this past season. I don't think it was a lack of effort. I don't think it was players not caring. I think it was not focusing. If we become mentally tough -- so when you're tired, you can make that block, make that catch, make that tackle -- I don't think there's any team that can beat us."


Raiding the 'Eye of the Storm

Al Golden has called the south Florida recruiting area the "Eye of the Storm," signifying that Miami needs to keep those top prospects "at home." But Miami has signed only two of the 48 four- or five-star prospects from Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties in the past two recruiting cycles. Here's a look at all the schools that have signed multiple four- and five-star prospects from that three-county area in those two years.

School Signees

Florida 9
Florida State 9

Louisville 5
Auburn 3
UCF 2
Miami 2
Michigan 2
Ohio State 2
USF 2
Tennessee 2

But there's evidence that Golden is turning that around. Miami already has commitments from three 2012 Miami-Dade prospects and one Broward recruit. Although most of them pledged to Miami before Shannon was fired, Golden has managed to hang on to them. Miami also finally landed a high school quarterback recruit last week when Clearwater (Fla.) Countryside's Gray Crow committed to the Hurricanes.

"He wants to get to know you," Keith Brown, a 2012 linebacker recruit from Miami Norland, says of Golden. "He's not just there for a championship. He wants to get to know you personally. He's like a second father to you."

Golden is making sure his entire staff gets to know south Florida's top prospects. He kept one of Shannon's best recruiters in linebackers coach Micheal Barrow, a 13-year NFL veteran and a starting linebacker on Miami's 1989 and '91 national championship teams. Barrow also is a former south Florida high school star, at Homestead High.

Golden revisited Miami's rich history by bringing back offensive line coach Art Kehoe, who worked as an assistant on each of Miami's five national championship teams before getting fired at the end of the 2005 season. He also brought in recruiting coordinator Brennan Carroll, the son of former USC coach Pete Carroll.

Kehoe's return earned Golden plenty of positive publicity in south Florida. Adding Carroll and hanging on to Barrow could dramatically upgrade Miami's recruiting efforts.

"He's definitely taken the approach that, 'You're going to know me. You're going to know my assistants. You're going to know my position coaches. You're not going to be recruited by one guy, but by the entire staff,' " says Chris Nee, a Florida recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. "That's big. Micheal Barrow has always been a good recruiter for them, but I'm not sure that entire staff under Shannon had kids thinking, 'I know multiple coaches there.'

"You'd always hear Micheal Barrow's name, but not always the other assistants."

A look at Miami's roster underscores the importance of improving its south Florida recruiting. Shannon attracted the nation's fifth-ranked recruiting class in 2008 and signed 11 of the top 16 prospects from Broward, Miami-Dade and Palm Beach three counties. That group of 11 included Jacory Harris, All-ACC cornerback Brandon Harris, All-ACC linebacker Sean Spence and All-ACC guard Brandon Washington.

But the Hurricanes have struggled to sign top local prospects since, and perhaps it's no coincidence that they also have struggled on the field.
 
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DMoney's reasons for disagreeing seem extraordinarily weak to me.

My reason for disagreeing is simple:
Shannon had the top rated recruiting class in America with the same issues, and we still attract more NFL talent than anyone. How does that jibe with your post?
 
1a) We've been losing
1b) Uncertainty over sanctions


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Everything else.
 
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