Latest on investigation via Herald. Shalala "determined"

[djh]

Let's wait until the internal investigation on NCAA by outside lawyer finishes. It is supposed to end in a few days right?

 

[The Franchise]

As a guy who is intimately acquainted with the concept of precedent, I can assure you that too many dummies with no idea of what it means are tossing it around loosely. UM's case is unique from Ped State and USC. UM's case involves fraud and extortion on behalf of the NCAA investigators. THAT is what should lead to us reaching a settlement.

The NCAA, if Emmert is smart, will not want that information constantly trotted out to the media over the course of the next year or two during contentious litigation. I can see this winding up on 60 Minutes and destroying the NCAA with a bunch of people losing their lucrative cushy jobs. The NCAA big wigs will want to protect their money. I always tell dudes one simple thing: Follow the money. Always follow the money.

Remember how brazen Lance Armstrong was? That buzzsaw dude from USADA went on 60 Minutes and eviscerated him. Lance is now in a world of hurt giving back millions on top of millions, and there are even whispers that he could be criminally charged for engaging in fraud.

Back to the issue of precedent. The UM case provides ZERO precedent for other schools to settle UNLESS their cases also involved rampant fraud and extortion in the investigation. Remember that. Let me teach on that subject. Consider that a free lesson. Other schools can't just claim that UM settled, so we can settle too. The concept of precedent does not work that way. There must be a similarity of issues.

 

[frostycane]

I am not a lawyer, so correct me if I am wrong. The number one reason why the NCAA will settle is the threat of a lawsuit by UM. If a lawsuit is brought then all the NCAAs records can be subpoenaed. If there is one thing the NCAA doesn't want it is the public viewing of their records and files. The Pandora's Box would be historic. Could you imagine them squirming as deposition after deposition is read and published. The NCAA is just posturing to save face and let the investigation conclude. They will scapegoat a couple of former employees and rule the evidence remaining only justifies time served.

I think this is SPOT ON! I think we will get nothing more, there may be a few scholly reductions but it will be very small. But for the most part will end up time served and dressed up as more so the NCAA feels like they are still the boss! LOL

 

[ACKCANE]

I don't see why people are saying a settlement is not likely. MIAMI could prove conspiracy to commit fraud: What was the nature of that contractual arrangement [between ncaa investigators and Perez]? What was all the activity that she was involved with? How did this individual engage in these activities on the ncaa's behalf?

If the NCAA doesn’t agree to a settlement, “then we have to be very aggressive and refute as much as we can,” a UM official said.
“We have leverage now to question this whole process” – including whether violations disclosed by Sean Allen during one of Perez's depositions was used to extract information from others."

A UM official said the NCAA informed UM of the improper relationship with Shapiro’s attorney very late in the process, and in crafting its notice of allegations, the NCAA initially tried to “slip by” some of the evidence gathered from those two Perez-led depositions.

UM essentially told the NCAA “that’s not going to fly,” the official said. Information gleaned from the Allen deposition affected how the NCAA framed its allegations, and that will be a point of contention if the NCAA doesn’t back down.

The allegations should be significantly reduced---I don't care what emmert says---the entire investigation is tainted.

Absolutely it's all tainted. Info they got from depos clearly guided their whole investigation. AND Shpiro was writing questions for them? Does that not sit right with anyone else?

Not only did Shapiro write the questions, he obviously wrote questions, (ie the gambling), that would either make sensationalist headlines or make the NCAA dig even more. He knew the allegations were false but threw them in there anyway JUST LIKE 90% OF ALL HIS OTHER ALLEGATIONS. Some players had a few free meals and drinks. They paid it back, paid with suspensions .. UM has been raped for 2 years. It's over. Time served.

 

[The Franchise]

Let's wait until the internal investigation on NCAA by outside lawyer finishes. It is supposed to end in a few days right?

I'll be interested to see if these "outside lawyers" are truly independent like Freeh was when Ped State hired him. I've seen too many instances of allegedly "independent" entities paid by a certain party that have no actual independence and are beholden to the party that is paying them.

As long as the NCAA is paying these lawyers, I will be ultra-skeptical of their "independence". Reminds me of doctors that insurance companies hire to examine injured people. They refer to those charlatans as "Independent Medical Examiners" when, in fact, they are hired guns, who are nothing more than a rubber stamp for the insurance companies.

 

[Bigtip]

anything that Shapiro is involved with is necessarily tainted and most likely fraud.

obvious is obvious

 

[drifters1234]

anything that Shapiro is involved with is necessarily tainted and most likely fraud.

obvious is obvious

that's a huge overstatement. if that theory were true, the government would not be able to rely on co-conspirators to prosecute cases, and co-conspirators often provide the most compelling evidence.

 

[SniperCane]

As a guy who is intimately acquainted with the concept of precedent, I can assure you that too many dummies with no idea of what it means are tossing it around loosely. UM's case is unique from Ped State and USC. UM's case involves fraud and extortion on behalf of the NCAA investigators. THAT is what should lead to us reaching a settlement.

The NCAA, if Emmert is smart, will not want that information constantly trotted out to the media over the course of the next year or two during contentious litigation. I can see this winding up on 60 Minutes and destroying the NCAA with a bunch of people losing their lucrative cushy jobs. The NCAA big wigs will want to protect their money. I always tell dudes one simple thing: Follow the money. Always follow the money.

Remember how brazen Lance Armstrong was? That buzzsaw dude from USADA went on 60 Minutes and eviscerated him. Lance is now in a world of hurt giving back millions on top of millions, and there are even whispers that he could be criminally charged for engaging in fraud.

Back to the issue of precedent. The UM case provides ZERO precedent for other schools to settle UNLESS their cases also involved rampant fraud and extortion in the investigation. Remember that. Let me teach on that subject. Consider that a free lesson. Other schools can't just claim that UM settled, so we can settle too. The concept of precedent does not work that way. There must be a similarity of issues.

Couldn't agree with this any more. Like I've said before throw out precedent. There is no precedent for this. The NCAA has been caught and forced to admit that in their zeal to finally nail UM once and for all and prove every trumped up detail of Yahoo's piece, they got into bed with the accuser, and willing sacrificed the very ideals they claim to uphold and enforce.

It's over.

And even the presidents and lawyers up there wouldn't be arrogant enough to continue this farce. Not when a protracted lawsuit would potentially open up every other past investigation to closer scrutiny, and uncover what most of America already thought was going in Indianapolis.

 

[Bigtip]

anything that Shapiro is involved with is necessarily tainted and most likely fraud.

obvious is obvious

that's a huge overstatement. if that theory were true, the government would not be able to rely on co-conspirators to prosecute cases, and co-conspirators often provide the most compelling evidence.

this is an internet message board

 

[MizCane]

The NCAA is completely corrupt and needs to be blown up entirely.[/

This is hilarious on many levels. Now that then NCAA has screwed up and calling themselves out, just like we did, the NCAA is now the bad guy?

 

[Canesfan1899]

I'm no lawyer and don't pretend to have a clue what UM could do the NCAA, but I want us to fight this with everything we have and expose them for the corrupt power hungary corporation they are.

 

[Pixelated bukake]

Let's wait until the internal investigation on NCAA by outside lawyer finishes. It is supposed to end in a few days right?

I'll be interested to see if these "outside lawyers" are truly independent like Freeh was when Ped State hired him. I've seen too many instances of allegedly "independent" entities paid by a certain party that have no actual independence and are beholden to the party that is paying them.

As long as the NCAA is paying these lawyers, I will be ultra-skeptical of their "independence". Reminds me of doctors that insurance companies hire to examine injured people. They refer to those charlatans as "Independent Medical Examiners" when, in fact, they are hired guns, who are nothing more than a rubber stamp for the insurance companies.

Yes, those CME and IME doctors are scumbags compared to the virtuous chiropractors and pain centers that will treat a person ad infinitum and who gallantly refuse to submit the bills to health insurers so that they can instead provide the "treatment" under letters of protection.

What I fnd questionable is that, not only are these outside attorneys hired by the NCAA but that they are only supposed to take 1-2 weeks to review a two year investigation? Seems dubious.

 

[dycane]

As a guy who is intimately acquainted with the concept of precedent, I can assure you that too many dummies with no idea of what it means are tossing it around loosely. UM's case is unique from Ped State and USC. UM's case involves fraud and extortion on behalf of the NCAA investigators. THAT is what should lead to us reaching a settlement.

The NCAA, if Emmert is smart, will not want that information constantly trotted out to the media over the course of the next year or two during contentious litigation. I can see this winding up on 60 Minutes and destroying the NCAA with a bunch of people losing their lucrative cushy jobs. The NCAA big wigs will want to protect their money. I always tell dudes one simple thing: Follow the money. Always follow the money.

Remember how brazen Lance Armstrong was? That buzzsaw dude from USADA went on 60 Minutes and eviscerated him. Lance is now in a world of hurt giving back millions on top of millions, and there are even whispers that he could be criminally charged for engaging in fraud.

Back to the issue of precedent. The UM case provides ZERO precedent for other schools to settle UNLESS their cases also involved rampant fraud and extortion in the investigation. Remember that. Let me teach on that subject. Consider that a free lesson. Other schools can't just claim that UM settled, so we can settle too. The concept of precedent does not work that way. There must be a similarity of issues.

This is, not surprisingly, exactly right.

 

[Every5Yrs]

So we have been the most cooperative university the NCAA has ever seen so they go dig up dirt on us via improper means, and try to "slip" said improperly dug up dirt into the NOA anyhow?

WTF, and Who TF do these people think they are?

 

[The Franchise]

Let's wait until the internal investigation on NCAA by outside lawyer finishes. It is supposed to end in a few days right?

I'll be interested to see if these "outside lawyers" are truly independent like Freeh was when Ped State hired him. I've seen too many instances of allegedly "independent" entities paid by a certain party that have no actual independence and are beholden to the party that is paying them.

As long as the NCAA is paying these lawyers, I will be ultra-skeptical of their "independence". Reminds me of doctors that insurance companies hire to examine injured people. They refer to those charlatans as "Independent Medical Examiners" when, in fact, they are hired guns, who are nothing more than a rubber stamp for the insurance companies.

Yes, those CME and IME doctors are scumbags compared to the virtuous chiropractors and pain centers that will treat a person ad infinitum and who gallantly refuse to submit the bills to health insurers so that they can instead provide the "treatment" under letters of protection.

What I fnd questionable is that, not only are these outside attorneys hired by the NCAA but that they are only supposed to take 1-2 weeks to review a two year investigation? Seems dubious.

I'm no advocate of shady chiropractors either. I deal in debilitating injury cases, and even in those cases, these purportedly "independent" examiners are far from independent in their opinions. I'm always skeptical of the word "independent" when that word is being used by the party that is paying them.

This entire matter will come down to one thing: Is Emmert smart, or is he an arrogant power-hungry shill dope like Roger Goodell? If Emmert's smart, he'll attempt to fix this situation and make it go away as quickly and with as little publicity as possible. If he takes a Goodell'ian approach, this thing will blow up in his face if Donna's as tough as I think she is.

 

[The Franchise]

So we have been the most cooperative university the NCAA has ever seen so they go dig up dirt on us via improper means, and try to "slip" said improperly dug up dirt into the NOA anyhow?

WTF, and Who TF do these people think they are?

Not exactly a great way to foster cooperation in the future is it?

 

[ADELPHI]

As a guy who is intimately acquainted with the concept of precedent, I can assure you that too many dummies with no idea of what it means are tossing it around loosely. UM's case is unique from Ped State and USC. UM's case involves fraud and extortion on behalf of the NCAA investigators. THAT is what should lead to us reaching a settlement.

The NCAA, if Emmert is smart, will not want that information constantly trotted out to the media over the course of the next year or two during contentious litigation. I can see this winding up on 60 Minutes and destroying the NCAA with a bunch of people losing their lucrative cushy jobs. The NCAA big wigs will want to protect their money. I always tell dudes one simple thing: Follow the money. Always follow the money.

Remember how brazen Lance Armstrong was? That buzzsaw dude from USADA went on 60 Minutes and eviscerated him. Lance is now in a world of hurt giving back millions on top of millions, and there are even whispers that he could be criminally charged for engaging in fraud.

Back to the issue of precedent. The UM case provides ZERO precedent for other schools to settle UNLESS their cases also involved rampant fraud and extortion in the investigation. Remember that. Let me teach on that subject. Consider that a free lesson. Other schools can't just claim that UM settled, so we can settle too. The concept of precedent does not work that way. There must be a similarity of issues.

This is, not surprisingly, exactly right.

Thank you. I hate when talking heads just start throwing out ****.Like this stupid comment by Bilas.

“If the NCAA cuts them a break, you would immediately see action from USC and other schools that were punished,” ESPN’s Jay Bilas, who has sharply criticized the NCAA in the past week, said by phone Monday.

 

[Pixelated bukake]

Let's wait until the internal investigation on NCAA by outside lawyer finishes. It is supposed to end in a few days right?

I'll be interested to see if these "outside lawyers" are truly independent like Freeh was when Ped State hired him. I've seen too many instances of allegedly "independent" entities paid by a certain party that have no actual independence and are beholden to the party that is paying them.

As long as the NCAA is paying these lawyers, I will be ultra-skeptical of their "independence". Reminds me of doctors that insurance companies hire to examine injured people. They refer to those charlatans as "Independent Medical Examiners" when, in fact, they are hired guns, who are nothing more than a rubber stamp for the insurance companies.

Yes, those CME and IME doctors are scumbags compared to the virtuous chiropractors and pain centers that will treat a person ad infinitum and who gallantly refuse to submit the bills to health insurers so that they can instead provide the "treatment" under letters of protection.

What I fnd questionable is that, not only are these outside attorneys hired by the NCAA but that they are only supposed to take 1-2 weeks to review a two year investigation? Seems dubious.

I'm no advocate of shady chiropractors either. I deal in debilitating injury cases, and even in those cases, these purportedly "independent" examiners are far from independent in their opinions. I'm always skeptical of the word "independent" when that word is being used by the party that is paying them.

This entire matter will come down to one thing: Is Emmert smart, or is he an arrogant power-hungry shill dope like Roger Goodell? If Emmert's smart, he'll attempt to fix this situation and make it go away as quickly and with as little publicity as possible. If he takes a Goodell'ian approach, this thing will blow up in his face if Donna's as tough as I think she is.

I agree with you. You may be able to glean I am on the civil defense side. However, I tell my counsel, experts, engineers, etc., I am paying for your expertise, not your opinion. At the end of the day, telling me what you think I want to hear does me no good.

The precedent argument you made is correct. The easy thing to do is to try to compare a general set of circumstances and the outcomes/punishments. Accuracy only comes from comparing all of the facts and details. As in litigation, no two cases are the same. Even with similar fact patterns, there are so many differences between the Miami case and the previous cases that a decision made in one, e.g. settlement, is not dispositive in all other cases of alleged violations.

As for fraud, some of you have mentioned that this is a slam dunk example. Not necessarily. Alelging fraud and proving fraud are two different things. Not only does a finding of fraud require a high level of wantonness/recklessness, it also requires injury resulting from reliance on the misleading statements. I am not confident that a tainted and corrupted investigation is sufficient to establish fraud, at least in a civil sense.

 

[cane305]

I am currently taking Shalala's health care class.

while she was talking about political scandals in the 60s, she brought up Nevin ****piro.

she said, "****piro incident was nothing compared to [this scandal] in nature but there wasn't all this media back in the day. "

 

[KLCane]

The idea of "precedent" is a fluid and often undefined concept. I was in Court this morning and had a case that was almost identical to my client's case and the Court found that it was distinguishable. If the NCAA wants to find it was different, it will. If the NCAA wants to find that it is the same or similar, it will.

I think the thing to remember is that the NCAA is not necessarily thinking logically and reasonably. We are trying to insert logic into an illogical organization -- the NCAA. What should they do? They should do anything they can to avoid the costly and embarassing protracted litigation by continuing to push the Miami investigation. What will they do? Who the heck knows.