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July 29, 2023 BBQ

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Brooklyndee said:
No it's not. The bet is that he will get us the necessary talent(necessary doesn't mean average & it doesn't mean top 3 in their position groups) & develop it enough for us to compete... It doesn't need to be the best of the best because a top class consistently isn't practical. A top tier class keying on our needs certainly is.
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Yea as long as it can body the acc regularly that's good enough for me. That can swing big momentum for us yearly on the trail. Just look the part compete and win when you are suppose to.
 
Brooklyndee said:
No it's not. The bet is that he will get us the necessary talent(necessary doesn't mean average & it doesn't mean top 3 in their position groups) & develop it enough for us to compete... It doesn't need to be the best of the best because a top class consistently isn't practical. A top tier class keying on our needs certainly is.
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I can buy this take even if I slightly disagree. But that means we need to hit on priority positions regularly. To me, that’s QB, WR, DT, CB in no order. He will develop OL guys (obviously better if he has top talent) and I think DE with JT will be good. But those 4 positions have to hit
 
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Ricaneswag said:
That's the proof for me then NFL performance. If u warming the bench then it is what it is. You are a bench warmer and that's that lol.
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No. But when these same kids get to the NFL and produce that's showing you either they were misused here or we didn't develope them adequately. Unfortunately in our instance both of those issues have been a consistent narrative. One thing is expected when you're running a system that doesn't relate to big boy/NFL football. Because you're developing kids to thrive in said system, not developing them for traits we didn't employ.
 
Brooklyndee said:
No. But when these same kids get to the NFL and produce that's showing you either they were misused here or we didn't develope them adequately. Unfortunately in our instance both of those issues have been a consistent narrative. One thing is expected when you're running a system that doesn't relate to big boy/NFL football. Because you're developing kids to thrive in said system, not developing them for traits we didn't employ.
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I don't know who has looked bad here then looked good in the league. Only can think of Shields everyone else I felt performed to their abilities. Ray Ray was a linebacker all along he played ok and looked the same as in college to me. IMO I thought they got developed here and we're getting NFL development and we're the same guys. But that's my opinion on it. I hope these kids thrive now and I believe they will cause the bodies in the room are beginning to look like Miami.
 
jmccomber5 said:
I can buy this take even if I slightly disagree. But that means we need to hit on priority positions regularly. To me, that’s QB, WR, DT, CB in no order. He will develop OL guys (obviously better if he has top talent) and I think DE with JT will be good. But those 4 positions have to hit
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My only issue with you saying that is where you state regularly... Only way we have to key on those positions regularly is if #1 they aren't hitting as far as developing or #2 injuries or #3 were losing consistently to the portal which isn't gonna be a big issue for much longer cause the portal is being addressed nationally. Won't be a annual option for kids to do free agency essentially. In what we're trying to do dt,de, & lb are probably more critical than cb to be honest. Because an elite corner can only be so if you have an elite front 4 at the very least if not 7. Safety in my eyes is more critical to us than cb but hey that's just me. Far as this regularly thing goes again you only can play one QB at a time. You want obviously a good developmental piece as a qb2 so hitting at that position yearly I'd disagree on how pivotal it NORMALLY WILL BE. Wr I agree we need to hit on kids who can come in and contribute. That doesn't mean they need to be 5 stars all the time. For example ray ray and Robby weren't 5 stars but I think we all agree they're gonna be critical in what we're doing moving forward. Look all throughout our history, I can't think of any 5 star wr that came in and did what he was expected of here. But again I've said all along we've been known for development throughout our glory years. Not for top classes.
 
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Brooklyndee said:
My only issue with you saying that is where you state regularly... Only way we have to key on those positions regularly is if #1 they aren't hitting as far as developing or #2 injuries or #3 were losing consistently to the portal which isn't gonna be a big issue for much longer cause the portal is being addressed nationally. Won't be a annual option for kids to do free agency essentially. In what we're trying to do dt,de, & lb are probably more critical than cb to be honest. Because an elite corner can only be so if you have an elite front 4 at the very least if not 7. Safety in my eyes is more critical to us than cb but hey that's just me. Far as this regularly thing goes again you only can play one QB at a time. You want obviously a good developmental piece as a qb2 so hitting at that position yearly I'd disagree on how pivotal it NORMALLY WILL BE. Wr I agree we need to hit on kids who can come in and contribute. That doesn't mean they need to be 5 stars all the time. For example ray ray and Robby weren't 5 stars but I think we all agree they're gonna be critical in what we're doing moving forward. Look all throughout our history, I can't think of any 5 star wr that came in and did what he was expected of here. But again I've said all along we've been known for development throughout our glory years. Not for top classes.
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I am curious, how confident are you on Beard developing and sending these kids to the league? We finally have an offense that will be WR friendly.
 
RVACane said:
I think Mario’s career track record is that of an elite recruiter. I also think it’s a very appropriate discussion on a Canes message board to talk about where things are right now, whether it hurts feelings or not.

Personally, unless Chance goes elsewhere, at this point in time Mario’s exceeded my expectations in WR recruiting. On the other hand, the DL recruiting has a couple of good pickups but isn’t where I had hoped it would be at this time. We know that DL was the focus. OL recruiting thus far is also a disappointment to me. We really need Ahfua and another 1-2 very solid guys on the OL. Selling the OL to any QB we are after in the future will be huge. We need to stack and we’re not doing that this class thus far.

July was the month I expected to see the results of our June visits. Today is the last day of July. I think @WeBallinBoyz posted stats regarding 70% or so of the top 100 being committed.

We’re also below 90 in our average 247 recruit ranking though that can increase. Even when schools like Clemson were ranked lower in years past because of the lower numbers of commits, their average was very high. Just observations.

All of this considered, we’re still in it for big targets which can change all this and Signing Day is still in December but some of you need to keep in mind that this is a message board and it’s plenty acceptable to discuss this snapshot in time in our recruiting and give opinions about it, including critical ones.
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This is a fair and nuanced take that I believe the majority of posters can appreciate.

Mario is an excellent recruiter. He knows how to close recruits and get them to sign on the line that is dotted. There should not be any debate there.

However, it is also the last day of July and UM's class is outside the top 15. Perhaps in years past this might not warrant much concern, but, in the current ESD/NIL recruiting landscape, most blue-chip recruits commit before September. In fact, a super-majority of the highly rated recruits have already committed. And based on data from last season, it appears a super-majority of recruits do not flip their commits (over 80%). Thus, the pool of available top-tier talent is shrinking.

Many of our highest rated targets have not committed, but some of those battles are far from being decided in our favor. And to add insult to injury, as of today our two biggest in-state rivals are ranked ahead of us in the recruiting rankings, and our big "end of summer" recruiting event just concluded without any public commitments.

How anyone responds to this as a fan is obviously up to them. Personally, I consider the above poor indicators, as the current state of the class leaves little room for future misses among our top targets, at least if your reasonable expectation is a top 10 class with a minimum 90 average. That said, there is still time to improve to class. And a 9+ win season (possible, though perhaps not probable) may help sway a few players on the fence in our favor.

I don't think it's time to panic that the sky is falling, but neither do I understand the people covering their hands over their ears yelling, "I TRUST MARIO TO CLOSE, I TRUST MARIO TO CLOSE" over and over. And certainly there are fair questions worth asking/discussing as a fanbase (on a recruiting forum on a public message board, especially) given the current state of the team and the 2024 class.
 
Ricaneswag said:
I don't know who has looked bad here then looked good in the league. Only can think of Shields everyone else I felt performed to their abilities. Ray Ray was a linebacker all along he played ok and looked the same as in college to me. IMO I thought they got developed here and we're getting NFL development and we're the same guys. But that's my opinion on it. I hope these kids thrive now and I believe they will cause the bodies in the room are beginning to look like Miami.
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Only response I got for that is I'm not sure people on here grasp the talent disparity from college to the NFL. It's night and day. In college you can get by to an extent on physical traits. In the NFL it's pure work and mechanics that separates one from another. Cause everyone is relatively even when it relates to athleticism beyond the freaks out there who are on an entirely different level. If what you were saying was the case where we've done any kind of development to that standard here than they would be doing their thing at this level first and foremost. Development has been horrible here since Coker settled in.
 
jmccomber5 said:
You are correct. Some posters follow it on daily, micro levels. Others just check the end results. A bunch are in between. I won’t speak for other but my urgency/concern is mostly tied to the fact that this is really our only way out with Mario - stacking elite talent
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Yeah it’s why I’ve been in a wait and see mode. I know that approach gives people PTSD because in the past it was delaying the inevitable

But not just with Mario, but we’ve got some resources in our program now that we haven’t had

Granted some of these conversations make take years to get actual answers…and that’s no fun either haha
 
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Brooklyndee said:
Only response I got for that is I'm not sure people on here grasp the talent disparity from college to the NFL. It's night and day. In college you can get by to an extent on physical traits. In the NFL it's pure work and mechanics that separates one from another. Cause everyone is relatively even when it relates to athleticism beyond the freaks out there who are on an entirely different level. If what you were saying was the case where we've done any kind of development to that standard here than they would be doing their thing at this level first and foremost. Development has been horrible here since Coker settled in.
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I will agree development still has been sh. They haven't put kids in position to shine so I agree with that.
 
JHallCanes said:
Yeah it’s why I’ve been in a wait and see mode. I know that approach gives people PTSD because in the past it was delaying the inevitable

But not just with Mario, but we’ve got some resources in our program now that we haven’t had

Granted some of these conversations make take years to get actual answers…and that’s no fun either haha
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They may take years but if we are rolling it will be fun. If not yea that sh will be a mope fest.
 
Hurracanes said:
I am curious, how confident are you on Beard developing and sending these kids to the league? We finally have an offense that will be WR friendly.
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Well not to contradict everyone's belief of me that if you're a Miami guy I'm always gonna pump sunshine, but I'll say one thing. With kev he's gotta keep evolving as a coach. If he does. If he keeps learning much the same as his group needs to than were gonna be just fine. Kev as of this second is a **** good stop gap. But he needs to keep evolving which he has been doing since the last time he was here.
 
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Ricaneswag said:
Yea as long as it can body the acc regularly that's good enough for me. That can swing big momentum for us yearly on the trail. Just look the part compete and win when you are suppose to.
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The acc,the big 10,the sec none of that is the measuring stick. The measuring stick that matters is competing for playoff spots and chips. No conference is enough for what we ALL want here. No one is settling. That's been the point. We're all working towards where we want to be. It's not a switch. It's a bar.
 
jmccomber5 said:
We hired him for talent acquisition. It would be like hiring a new CEO that is supposed to increase revenue through a better sales strategy and then not being able to ask about sales. This is our entire bet - that Mario will out talent everyone
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There is so much more than just the two things everyone talks about (talent acquisition and X/Os). Mario's strength is def recruiting but he was brought in for more than that. Player development, evaluations, culture, fundraising/cap x, operational infrastructure.... Just organizing the football program and its operations the way a real top team is built. Thats why he is here.

I have my concerns on the scheme / X&Os scope but hopefully he hires the right people to address that as well. I am still optimistic we got the right guy for long term and sustained success. He is not the type with the hot new scheme that will flip it overnight but I do think he gets the big picture and will grind away piece by piece until the overall operation is built to achieve greatness.
 
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