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Josh Gattis (before its deleted)

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mirvin88 said:
I'll be frank. If any of that is true about Ponce and Gattis nobody, including Mario, gets a pass

1. If Ponce simply checked out and did not perform his job, he should've been fired. Anyone else here able to not show up and keep cashing checks?

2. If he deemed Gattis unfit and not a team player he should've been fired mid season and Ponce handed the keys until the end.

3. If it's true, Mario should've sat their asses down to come to an understanding, at least for this season, and then assess year end changes. He might've done so. I hope so. And if he did, see 1 and 2

No excuse for putting up with any of that without repercussions.


Again, this is assuming these reports are true. I do not claim to know one way or another.
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I actually knew that this take would be posted in response to what Rickd and I posted here. I am a bit surprised it was you. Always thought you were sharper than that, mirvin. lol


Seriously though. Situations like this are easy to look at from the outside and say what you just said, but in real life its way more complex. Coaches have to protect their own resume, protect their own income, and protect their own marketability. Have you ever worked for an incompetent manager? I have. Its among the most difficult things to deal with. That manager was hired and put in place by the person above them, hence that person does not want the manager to be exposed as being incompetent as it reflects poorly on that senior person for hiring them. That's my read on this situation.


If Mario were to fire Gattis mid-season (which I preferred) then Gattis becomes a negative asset in the marketplace to help other teams negatively recruit against UM. My 'guess' is that Mario felt the need to give Gattis all the rope he needed to hang himself this season, probably because Mario's long term plan had 2022 as a write-off season anyway.


It's a write-off, Jerry. They just write it off.


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Rickd said:
Believe one of the issues is that Gattis didn't really USE Ponce to any degree. They reportedly had "different" ideas on what the QB's should be doing and as OC Gattis is the boss on offense. Believe the entire offense would have been more productive with Ponce running it. This was the Gattis offense ... period.
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Here you mfs go creating fake narratives and scape goating.
 
252cane said:
Except he was struggling at Michigan too until they brought in a co-oc last year
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But that's my point. He had enough resources to succeed there (at least to the outside observer). Here, Mario trusted he could be capable/competent on his own and instead it's an emperor has no clothes scenario.
 
SFbayCane said:
I actually knew that this take would be posted in response to what Rickd and I posted here. I am a bit surprised it was you. Always thought you were sharper than that, mirvin. lol


Seriously though. Situations like this are easy to look at from the outside and say what you just said, but in real life its way more complex. Coaches have to protect their own resume, protect their own income, and protect their own marketability. Have you ever worked for an incompetent manager? I have. Its among the most difficult things to deal with. That manager was hired and put in place by the person above them, hence that person does not want the manager to be exposed as being incompetent as it reflects poorly on that senior person for hiring them. That's my read on this situation.


If Mario were to fire Gattis mid-season (which I preferred) then Gattis becomes a negative asset in the marketplace to help other teams negatively recruit against UM. My 'guess' is that Mario felt the need to give Gattis all the rope he needed to hang himself this season, probably because Mario's long term plan had 2022 as a write-off season anyway.


It's a write-off, Jerry. They just write it off.


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I don't disagree with anything you posted. I've experienced this type of situation plenty.

We can agree to disagree on this one. I am a firm believer of owning your mistakes and taking action.

Coaching fires mid season happen all the time. If Mario hung Gattis out to dry to protect his imagine (I've considered this) it personally makes me lose respect for him.

In your scenario that poor manager hire that the superior has let get away with poor management is the ultimate morale and killer for that side of the company. If I am say a VP someplace and I made a poor management hire I would not let it drag on pulling the rest down with him and ultimately end up reflecting more poorly on myself by trying to save my image.

I've been in that situation plenty as well early in my career where I have actively sought new opportunities solely because I did not have any respect for those higher up the chain.

As for negative recruiting you can argue the other side that keeping him is just as if not more detrimental in my opinion. Teams will say look, he ******* sucks and Mario isn't changing anything.
 
mirvin88 said:
I don't disagree with anything you posted. I've experienced this type of situation plenty.

We can agree to disagree on this one. I am a firm believer of owning your mistakes and taking action.

Coaching fires mid season happen all the time. If Mario hung Gattis out to dry to protect his imagine (I've considered this) it personally makes me lose respect for him.

In your scenario that poor manager hire that the superior has let get away with poor management is the ultimate morale and killer for that side of the company. If I am say a VP someplace and I made a poor management hire I would not let it drag on pulling the rest down with him and ultimately end up reflecting more poorly on myself by trying to save my image.

I've been in that situation plenty as well early in my career where I have actively sought new opportunities solely because I did not have any respect for those higher up the chain.

As for negative recruiting you can argue the other side that keeping him is just as if not more detrimental in my opinion. Teams will say look, he ******* sucks and Mario isn't changing anything.
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Great response. Thanks.

I dont think Mario was protecting "his image" in this scenario. I think he was trying to keep a **** good recruiting class together. Quite frankly, Im amazed that he has...to this point. 🙏
 
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dirtyred786 said:
Ponce is not the solution, he is part of the problem.
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Again, Im going to try to address the Ponce aspect of this topic.

What evidence can you provide that Ponce is part of the problem? And please give us more than "TVD regressed" type stuff. If Ponce's efforts were being blocked by Gattis (which has been reported by more than one UM outlet), what evidence do you have to justify your statement above?
 
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Although, I've posted in another thread that if Mario wants to keep Gattis, that's his call and he (Mario) has one year to right this ship, so if he believes in his process and has inside reasons as to why he should he keep Gattis, I was willing to let him have that rope, knowing that if it didn't yield results in a year, his death spiral would have started.

Having said all of that, I do think that no matter what he may think will happen with Gattis as OC in year two, his (Mario's) ability to deflect criticism was eroded when we lost to MTSU and ultimately went 5-7. At 5-7, and with the long-suffering Cane Nation hungry for blood, I do think the smartest thing at this point is to fire Gattis, and get someone with more of a pulse as our OC.

At this point, it's not just an X' & O's thing. Now, it's a public perception thing. It's a goodwill thing with Cane Nation. If he wants them to come to the games and support the team, he has to give as well and after 5-7 and the worst offensive season in my memory of watching the Canes for 5 decades, only a human sacrifice will get it done to fully win back the crowd. I do think Gattis has to go for many reasons, but the biggest is non-X's&O's.

On a side note, with Michigan undefeated and basically running his offense, how much does he regret coming to Coral Gables? He would've been offered a sweet HC's gig had he stayed one more year. Woopsie.
 
With Mario's reportedly methodical interview process, how on earth could he miss that Gattis was so bad and did not work well with others? Honest question.
 
SFbayCane said:
Again, Im going to try to address the Ponce aspect of this topic.

What evidence can you provide that Ponce is part of the problem? And please give us more than "TVD regressed" type stuff. If Ponce's efforts were being blocked by Gattis (which has been reported by more than one UM outlet), what evidence do you have to justify your statement above?
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Again, the QB play speaks for itself. We played three QBs this season, and none of them can read defenses (pre or post snap). None of them could manipulate coverage with their eyes. All had poor mechanics and pocket awareness. All of them stared down receivers and missed open guys. Ponce failed at his job. Our QBs never looked prepared this season.
 
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Thommy30w said:
With Mario's reportedly methodical interview process, how on earth could he miss that Gattis was so bad and did not work well with others? Honest question.
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He struck out on all his other targets so gattass was his best option left? I think this is what ultimately happened
 
Thommy30w said:
I think that makes sense. My concern going forward is Mario's ability to attract quality coaches.
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Mario needs to become a CEO. Let his coordinators be elite and only worry about recruiting. Also hire someone strictly for helping with timeouts and clock management. Can be an analyst or whatever he wants to label them
 
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dirtyred786 said:
Again, the QB play speaks for itself. We played three QBs this season, and none of them can read defenses (pre or post snap). None of them could manipulate coverage with their eyes. All had poor mechanics and pocket awareness. All of them stared down receivers and missed open guys. Ponce failed at his job. Our QBs never looked prepared this season.
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That's what I suspected you'd come back with. That does not show anything about Ponce, given what we believe to be true about the internal situation.

We would be best to agree to let the marketplace decide the truth. Let's see where Gattis and Ponce end up next season.
 
SFbayCane said:
Great response. Thanks.

I dont think Mario was protecting "his image" in this scenario. I think he was trying to keep a **** good recruiting class together. Quite frankly, Im amazed that he has...to this point. 🙏
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You could also argue if he's that good of a recruiter to keep a class together with no change and the worst Miami program on field since the 70s, or ever, he could do as well selling staff changes.

It's a really difficult decision/position to be in that most of us can't even imagine. Just varying opinions on what we value in leadership.
 
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