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Jai Lucas set to become next men’s basketball coach

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TheOriginalCane said:
Siiiighhh...

You do realize I've spoken about Bill Foster on this and other UM basketball threads. I enrolled at UM in 1986, so Coach Foster was my first UM hoops coach. I used to sit in the Knight Center bleachers right behind the UM bench until they built the Miami Arena.

Yes, from 1977 onward, Duke was a pretty successful program. And before Coach Foster's arrival in 1974, Duke was pretty terrible.

So, yes, my statement about "the 1970s" was accurate. "The 1970s" was the last time that Duke was awful at recruiting. Not "the entirety of the 1970s". Just "the 1970s".

Google less. Know more. Not only were Duke's first three years under Coach Foster (basically) .500 years, but Duke was sub-.500 for the three years BEFORE Coach Foster arrived too.

So, yeah, Duke wasn't very good under Bucky Waters or Neill McGeachy.
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You realize that the Bill Foster you saw at Miami and the Bill Foster at Duke are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE right? Coach Foster, who led the Miami program coached at CLEMSON before he came to Miami. They were in the ACC at the same time, but are two different people.

By the way, in the sixties, Duke finshed third twice and runner up once. Keep in mind, this was before tournament expansion, and only conference tournament winners advanced. Therefore, the 1964 20-5 Duke team that won the ACC regular season title didn’t get in . You really think a coach that went 213-67 over a decade wasn’t recruiting at a decent level?

Duke had a 5 year run where they were mediocre, it was sandwiched between a dominant decade and Foster rebuilding the program. Even at schools where **** near anyone can succeed, it’s possible to make a bad hire or two. Remember when UNC hired Matt Doherty and he ran them into the ground? As I said before, Duke has recruited well for most of the last 50 years, one can argue even longer. Contrary to popular belief, Duke wasn’t some trash heap K carried to glory, they had experienced success before, albeit not the kind of success K ultimately took them to.

Maybe before you start trying to be a condescending prick, you may want to use google yourself.
 

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TheOriginalCane said:
Jankovich was THE GOD of coaching hires, particularly in football.

Paul Dee made some good hires. Jim Morris and Butch Davis and Katie Meier. And Coker was NOT the worst hire ever, I wish we would have given him more resources later (not just money, but solid coordinators, Coker couldn't identify a good coordinator to save his life).

The misses include Perry Clark and Frank Haith, as well as Randy Shannon. I do think Shalala's focus on hiring "up-and-comers" kinda put the shackles on Dee when hiring Haith/Shannon, but I believe that Perry Clark was recommended by Leonard Hamilton on his way out the door, so Dee has to take part of the hit on Perry.

I may be overlooking some good hires in non-revenue sports, but these tend to be lower-profile hires.
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if the only good hire Sam did was JJ that's enough to put him at the top of Mount Caneopolis but he did more than that. He had an uncanny ability to find talented coaches in obscure places
 
Canedude08 said:
Marcus Freeman ended up at a school with almost infinite resources, extremely strong fan support and unique dynamics which helps on the recruiting trail. Miami basketball is not ND Football. Y’all are straight up reaching at this point.
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The comparison has everything to do with all the hand wringing about “learning on the job,” and not about the prestige of ND. It is a comparison between the men not the context.

Before Brian Kelly, first time head coach Charlie Weiss left his role as Bill Belichick’s OC and failed at ND.

Before CW, Tyrone Willingham left a very similar program in Stanford (as their HC) to go to ND — he failed too.

Before him 1st time HC Bob Davie was elevated from being ND’s DC to being ND’s HC — just like Freeman. He failed too.

Davie was given a stable program after Houltz’ tenure. It was a very similar situation to Freeman after Kelly.

BD did not do well. Before Houltz, Notre Dame literally hired a high school head coach to be run their program.

Pardon my reach….Our fanbase is acting like we just hired basketball equivalent of Dorito to run our team.

Another comparison — of the men themselves and not the context — that is very apt: Dan Lanning being hired at Oregon.

Big time programs or organizations (i.e. the Boston Celtics and the LA Lakers doing this back to back) across all sports are not afraid to hire assistants they feel comfortable with.
 
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strauzer said:
if the only good hire Sam did was JJ that's enough to put him at the top of Mount Caneopolis but he did more than that. He had an uncanny ability to find talented coaches in obscure places
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Sam hit on Ham, he hit on Erickson(Dude was a drunk but he was an offensive genius), I’m quite sure he hired Ferne Labati too, who had a good run. He was an elite AD.
 
It just seems like we are swinging big to me. No question IF Lucas ends up being a hot, it is a great long-term decision certainly risky. But that doesn't mean it won't work out. Idk to me Basketball is like 80% getting the talent, and 20% getting maximum effort tbh. At least if the desired results are yearly tourney appearances and some years getting like sweet 16s or elite 8s... Which you know is literally what OUR program should be aiming for.

I don't mind this. If he can maximize our NIL returns, I'd bet this hire works well to anyone who alhas any logical expectations tbh.

And IF/WHEN we switch back to Nike, I'm sure there will be a pretty nice immediate impact that generates momentum whenever that happens ...
 
Canedude08 said:
You realize that the Bill Foster you saw at Miami and the Bill Foster at Duke are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE right? Coach Foster, who led the Miami program coached at CLEMSON before he came to Miami. They were in the ACC at the same time, but are two different people.

By the way, in the sixties, Duke finshed third twice and runner up once. Keep in mind, this was before tournament expansion, and only conference tournament winners advanced. Therefore, the 1964 20-5 Duke team that won the ACC regular season title didn’t get in . You really think a coach that went 213-67 over a decade wasn’t recruiting at a decent level?

Duke had a 5 year run where they were mediocre, it was sandwiched between a dominant decade and Foster rebuilding the program. Even at schools where **** near anyone can succeed, it’s possible to make a bad hire or two. Remember when UNC hired Matt Doherty and he ran them into the ground? As I said before, Duke has recruited well for most of the last 50 years, one can argue even longer. Contrary to popular belief, Duke wasn’t some trash heap K carried to glory, they had experienced success before, albeit not the kind of success K ultimately took them to.

Maybe before you start trying to be a condescending prick, you may want to use google yourself.
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So, let's see, because I made a mistake on Bill Foster (who coached at other places before Clemson), that makes my point about Duke struggling to recruit in the 1970s wrong?

Hilarious.
 
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cookies said:
The comparison has everything to do with all the hand wringing about “learning on the job,” and not about the prestige of ND. It is a comparison between the men not the context.

Before Brian Kelly, first time head coach Charlie Weiss left his role as Bill Belichick’s OC and failed at ND.

Before CW, Tyrone Willingham left a very similar program in Stanford to go to ND — he failed too.

Before him 1st time HC Bob Davie was elevated from being ND’s DC to being ND’s HC — just like Freeman. He failed too.

Davie was given a stable program after Houltz’ tenure. It was a very similar situation to Freeman after Kelly.

BD did not do well. Before Houltz, Notre Dame literally hired a high school head coach to be run their program.

Pardon my reach….
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Notre Dame can take a chance on Charlie Weis, a Bob Davie, a Gerry Faust because if they ultimately fail, WHICH THEY DID, they can buy their way out by going after a big fish to fix it, ala Brian Kelly or Lou Holtz. Keep in mind, even with Davie and Weis being mediocre at best, both led ND to at least one major bowl appearance. Weis appeared in two BCS games, despite being a walking greasefire. We can argue whether they should have been invited in the first place, but it happened, because they are Notre Dame.

Miami can’t afford to hire some unknown, because if it goes poorly, the program will then be too far down to attract a top end guy. Keep in mind, it’s tough enough to win at a school like Miami when you are experienced, imagine learning on the job while doing it. It doesn’t make sense. We lucked into L, imagine had they hired some of the crap bandied about back then. Coming off of what L accomplished, Miami can and should hire someone that isn’t a complete roll of the dice.
 
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Although this is not an exhaustive study, this list is to the best of my knowledge. Jai Lucas will join an exclusive group of former McDonald’s All-Americans who became head coaches:

Chauncey Billups; JJ Redick; Greg Paulus
Jon Scheyer; Jerry Stackhouse
Sam Vincent; Jason Kidd
Jacque Vaughn; Doc Rivers
Chris Mullin; Kenny Anderson
Danny Manning; Bobby Hurley
Juwan Howard; Steve Wojciechowski; Sheehan Holloway

& lastly, just to make everyone a bit more aware of the historical context— Jai Lucas to Miami resembles Quinn Snyder, former McDonald’s All-American, to Missouri.

After one year as a Clippers assistant and four seasons as a Duke assistant; Missouri did the unthinkable move of hiring a young man with no head coaching experience to run their program. Like Miami, their previous head coach went until the wheels fell off — 32 years strong (he was hired when MLK was still alive & he himself is still alive today).
 
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casualcane said:
Fantasy basketball. Jai, who recruited the twins, hires Andrew Moran. The Boozers and Shelton Henderson play for us next year
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Posted this in the initial Lucas thread. Moran joining staff is in the territory of "I'd be surprised if that does not happen". The other stuff, we'll see.

Peter Ariz

Thread 'Jai Lucas'

I’m keeping a close eye on him in this coaching search. I have reason to believe he’s a finalist for the job.
  • Like
  • Looking
  • Agree
 
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Canedude08 said:
Frank Haith was at Miami, Mizzou and Tulsa. Three programs where it has been proven that you can win(and win big) if you are anywhere near competent. He won ONE NCAAT game in EIGHTEEN SEASONS. Pitino has coached for 13 years, same amount of NCAAT wins, and he’s been at places like New Mexico, Minnesota and FIU. Let that settle in. Haith managed to fail at two power conference schools and a strong midmajor.

We get it, you are going to support this nonsense no matter what facts are thrown your way. There’s no way a rational, unbiased person supports this hire, period.
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Btw you just proved my point LMAO. It’s harder to win games at the three former places you listed than it is at the three latter places — which is exactly what I said. Him and Haith have the same conference winning percentage — 55% — despite Haith coaching against better teams. During the year he was fired, Pitino was the only BIG10 coach that was winless on the road.

Haith has a higher winning percentage (non-conference added in). Let’s see if Pitino wins a tournament game anytime soon. If he did better at Minnesota or if an AD thought he got a bad break at Minnesota, he would’ve been hired back to a better conference by now to have a chance to win in tournament play.

The point isn’t to make Haith sound like a guru but rather to show the average to above-average-ness of Pitino’s career so far. Just like Wes Miller and a dozen of other coaches, I think he knows basketball extremely well. Their records are still their records.

Pitino took over a program that won 20+ games 5 out of 6 years under Tubby Smith. What did he do with that program? Crash out with it. He won 20+ games 3 out of 8 years (including Year 1 when he inherited Tubby’s team). If Minnesota is so hard to win at, we should just call up Tubby Smith because he did much better there.
 
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I'm cautiously optimistic about this hire because I've been following this team for close to 6 years now and the main issue was never the coaching, it was always the roster and player development. We had like a handful of our own recruits ever become good, with Wong being the only one to become a real star. George recently was more of a draft gem than good college level player. Go look through our recruits from the past years, it gets sadder and sadder. Mike Nwoko, Christian Watson, AJ Casey, Jakai Robinson, Earl Timberlake, Matt Cross all 4 star recruits who did next to nothing at Miami.

On top of that I have followed closely when we narrowly missed out on players over and over again because of the way L's teams are constructed. Vernon Carey, a Miami legacy who went to Duke straight from our backyard. Cliff Omuyuri who chose Rutgers over us and is now on Bama. A better coach would've sold the vision for them to play here at Miami in a more balanced offense without relying so heavily on guard play. I think the most telltale sign was when Omier left, and we couldn't even blame him because without Wong and Miller the roster absolutely fell apart.

Now look at the current roster, just a misshapen mess of players that was doomed from the start when Lynn Kidd was brought on to be the anchor and sole big for the team. What a waste of time for everyone involved.

If Jai Lucas can bring even one or two impactful freshmen that play winning basketball then he will already beat out L from the last few years. The portal given our NIL capabilities and desirable location will fill our the rest of our roster, but if Lucas can mange to hit on a freshman every class, that is what will lead to Miami's long term success. This hire looks to build a team that will build a foundation through recruiting every year with the portal to fill the holes, and not the other way around like Coach L has been running the program the last few years. If Jai Lucas is as good as a recruiter as everyone says he is we will see a lot of promise in year 1 itself, and by year 2 or 3 the team should be back to a tournament team.
 
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Canedude08 said:
Notre Dame can take a chance on Charlie Weis, a Bob Davie, a Gerry Faust because if they ultimately fail, WHICH THEY DID, they can buy their way out by going after a big fish to fix it, ala Brian Kelly or Lou Holtz. Keep in mind, even with Davie and Weis being mediocre at best, both led ND to at least one major bowl appearance. Weis appeared in two BCS games, despite being a walking greasefire. We can argue whether they should have been invited in the first place, but it happened, because they are Notre Dame.

Miami can’t afford to hire some unknown, because if it goes poorly, the program will then be too far down to attract a top end guy. Keep in mind, it’s tough enough to win at a school like Miami when you are experienced, imagine learning on the job while doing it. It doesn’t make sense. We lucked into L, imagine had they hired some of the crap bandied about back then. Coming off of what L accomplished, Miami can and should hire someone that isn’t a complete roll of the dice.
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Dave Bliss and Steve Alford turned their New Mexico tenures into jobs at Baylor and UCLA. Although he is having a strong fourth year, Pitino’s complete record is very similar to Craig Neal who was fired after 4 years. Im sure Pitino will have a chance to leverage this season into another job.

The idea that Pitino himself is not a RISK is laughable and ludicrous. Again — experience for experience’s sake. What good was Perry Clark’s experience when he was hired after Hamilton? His track record was better than what Pitino’s is today.

You’re acting like Lucas won’t have help from more than two dozen staff members. I think your doom and gloom is ridiculous. We will still be in the ACC and our program is forever elevated because of what Coach L accomplished. We attracted Coach L without trying.

I think USC got a top shelf coach without doing much to attract him. Their best move was actually hiring the Mobley brothers’ father as an assistant as well as Jason Hart. They made the Elite Eight with them in 2021, and besides that year Andy Einfeld never bested his FGCU Sweet 16 appearance during his time at USC — despite having the best prep hoopers in his backyard.

After Nolan Richardson was fired, Arkansas hired a 30 win Kent State coach who took his team to the elite eight in his first season as a HC. Didn’t workout for them — but their program wasn’t buried alive as we can see by their most recent few coaches.

Another great example is the University of Missouri. They had the same coach from the late 60s to the start of the new millennium. Instead of being scared and playing it safe, they chose a young Duke assistant, with no head coaching experience, who was a former McDonald’s All-American — Quinn Snyder.

The Lucas family is only unknown to you and some others. Within the basketball world, Jai Lucas is well respected.
 
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Notsince1985 said:
I'm so glad this has devolved into debating Duke's program in the 1960s. This is why I pay for the premium subscription.
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And still nobody has disproven my point about Duke's recruiting struggles in the early 1970s.

I even have the on3 rankings to prove it...
 
JB7-FTW said:
I'm cautiously optimistic about this hire because I've been following this team for close to 6 years now and the main issue was never the coaching, it was always the roster and player development. We had like a handful of our own recruits ever become good, with Wong being the only one to become a real star. George recently was more of a draft gem than good college level player. Go look through our recruits from the past years, it gets sadder and sadder. Mike Nwoko, Christian Watson, AJ Casey, Jakai Robinson, Earl Timberlake, Matt Cross all 4 star recruits who did next to nothing at Miami.

On top of that I have followed closely when we narrowly missed out on players over and over again because of the way L's teams are constructed. Vernon Carey, a Miami legacy who went to Duke straight from our backyard. Cliff Omuyuri who chose Rutgers over us and is now on Bama. A better coach would've sold the vision for them to play here at Miami in a more balanced offense without relying so heavily on guard play. I think the most telltale sign was when Omier left, and we couldn't even blame him because without Wong and Miller the roster absolutely fell apart.

Now look at the current roster, just a misshapen mess of players that was doomed from the start when Lynn Kidd was brought on to be the anchor and sole big for the team. What a waste of time for everyone involved.

If Jai Lucas can bring even one or two impactful freshmen that play winning basketball then he will already beat out L from the last few years. The portal given our NIL capabilities and desirable location will fill our the rest of our roster, but if Lucas can mange to hit on a freshman every class, that is what will lead to Miami's long term success. This hire looks to build a team that will build a foundation through recruiting every year with the portal to fill the holes, and not the other way around like Coach L has been running the program the last few years. If Jai Lucas is as good as a recruiter as everyone says he is we will see a lot of promise in year 1 itself, and by year 2 or 3 the team should be back to a tournament team.
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Spare me with the better coach crap. Tell us which coach would have fit better for Miami than Coach L. Lets also not forget that he got screwed with the bogus FBI allegations which set back the program for a couple of years,
 
He’s got a ton of work to do in recruiting and the portal-

He’s never been a HC-

He’s going to have to learn on the fly-

It’s a lot easier to recruit studs to Duke-

Bottom line he’s got to win if he doesn’t it won’t matter-
 
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