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If anyone says Cam Ward is not the hands down Heisman leader

SCarolina Ibis said:
Barry Sanders' record is one that most believe is unbreakable. Especially in this era. RBs playing weak schedules, RBs in run heavy offenses, first round picks behind 5 NFL offensive linemen and future hall of famers.. none of them have gotten close to breaking it.

I don't think people realize how big of an accomplishment that would be. The odds of him actually breaking it are still extremely low. I don't think he'll get there. But if he does..? It'd be hard to vote against him.
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a lot of it on this board is homerism and recency bias. if jeanty breaks barry’s record, he deserves it full stop.
 
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CaneinBroward said:
Yeah, the guys on the RB list are mostly from traditional powers. Still, why is Jeanty getting this level of hype against Group of 5 competition? I don't recall Kevin Smith or Rashaad Penny getting the Heisman love.

He may very well win the Heisman because of one game - Oregon. Detmer was the last "small school" guy to win the Heisman and he probably won his because of his game against Miami, but at least Detmer's school won that game.
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Well Kevin Smith did it on 5.7 Y/Carry with a 6.44% TD% finishing 8th in voting, Rashaad Penny did it on 7.8 Y/Carry with a 8.0% TD% finishing 5th in voting.

And those seasons Tebow and Baker were the Runaway Heisman Winners. Honestly all Kevin Smith had going for him really was that he had a lot of TDs compared to the other Heisman finalist who was a RB - Darren McFadden. Meanwhile Penny was going up against Bryce Love, Saquon, and Jonathan Taylor, who statistically weren't all that far off AND did so at P5 programs.

Jeanty is doing it on 9.9 Y/Carry with a 13.5% TD% which is ******* insane. And again Boise St only loss so far is to Oregon by 3 points on the road and are now ranked #2 and probably about to move up to #1, and he had almost 200 yards and 3 TDs against them.

Other RBs playing well this season are:
Kaleb Johnson - Iowa. Clearly the 2nd best RB in the nation imo. Probably having a good enough season to finish top 10 in Heisman voting.
Omarion Hampton - UNC. On a garbage team, averaging <6 Y/Carry, and has 10 less TDs than Jeanty on more carries.
Bhayshul Tuten - VTech. Having a good season, but slightly worse statistically across the board than Kaleb Johnson. But on a 4-3 Team.
AJ Turner - Marshall. Great Y/A, but only 5 TDs on season, and Marshall isn't very good and only good game against Ohio St, he rushed for only 32 yards and 0 Tds.

Jeanty is far surpassing his competition this season.
 
Calinative said:
Cam is currently on pace to finish the regular season with:

4,350 Yards, 41 TDs, 9 INTs, on 468 Attempts and 5 Rush TDs. 10.18 Adjusted Y/A, 8.76 TD%

Last 5 Heisman Trophy Winners in the Regular Season:

Jayden Daniels: 3,812 Yards, 40 TDs, 4 INTs, on 327 Attempts!, and 10 Rush TDs. 13.55 Adjusted Y/A, 12.2% TD%.
Caleb Williams: 3,712 Yards, 34 TDs, 3 INTs, on 407 Attempts, and 10 Rush TDs. 10.50 Adjusted Y/A, 8.35% TD%.
Bryce Young: 3,901 Yards, 40 TDs, 4 INTs, on 418 Attempts, and 2 Rush TDs. 10.82 Adjusted Y/A, 9.60% TD%.
Joe Burrow: 4,366 Yards, 44 TDs, 6 INTs, on 401 Attempts, and 3 Rush TDs. 12.41 Adjusted Y/A, 10.97% TD%.
Kyler Murray: 3,674 Yards, 37 TDs, 7 INTs, on 306 Attempts!, and 11 Rush TDs. 13.40 Adjusted Y/A, 12.09% TD%.

So you can see Cam Ward is having an elite season, but is really only out-performing Caleb Williams' Heisman season to this point. He needs to increase his TD rate and decrease his INT rate over the next 5 games, to really make himself the runaway Heisman winner imo. Cause at this point he's unlikely to finish with fewer than 450 Attempts, which is far more than the other Heisman winners got. So his rate stats aren't likely to be as good tbh.
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This is all interesting research, but the Heisman is a narrative award. If he’s the outstanding QB they aren’t going to be looking at rate stats, they’re going to try to find a way to give it to him. We’ll have to not drop any dumb ones or have a game where he implodes, otherwise they’ll give it to Jeanty due to process of elimination or Gabriel if they keep winning and Jeanty gets hurt or slumps for some reason. Cam is fun, he’s explosive, and he’s winning…that’s usually the formula.
 
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cowboycane said:
This is all interesting research, but the Heisman is a narrative award. If he’s the outstanding QB they aren’t going to be looking at rate stats, they’re going to try to find a way to give it to him. We’ll have to not drop any dumb ones or have a game where he implodes, otherwise they’ll give it to Jeanty due to process of elimination or Gabriel if they keep winning and Jeanty gets hurt or slumps for some reason. Cam is fun, he’s explosive, and he’s winning…that’s usually the formula.
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Sure. And we need to go undefeated then Ward needs to have a big game against Clemson in ACC Championship. Cause otherwise if the narrative is about Jeanty potentially breaking Barrys Rushing Record, it's not going to be a winning narrative. UNLESS Ward take a pretty big leap in his TD rate and decreasing his INT rate. It's not about Voters looking at those stats, its just that that needs to happen for him to statistically be in the place he needs to be to win the vote.

Like I said, I think this is Jeanty or Ward. But if we assume Jeanty continues at his pace, he Will win it over Ward at his current pace imo. Wards gotta increase his TDs and decrease his turnovers. If he has >10 INTs, I think it's much harder for him to win.
 
Before anyone breaks Sanders record they should add his bowl game stats to his regular season ones.
 
Calinative said:
Well Kevin Smith did it on 5.7 Y/Carry with a 6.44% TD% finishing 8th in voting, Rashaad Penny did it on 7.8 Y/Carry with a 8.0% TD% finishing 5th in voting.

And those seasons Tebow and Baker were the Runaway Heisman Winners. Honestly all Kevin Smith had going for him really was that he had a lot of TDs compared to the other Heisman finalist who was a RB - Darren McFadden. Meanwhile Penny was going up against Bryce Love, Saquon, and Jonathan Taylor, who statistically weren't all that far off AND did so at P5 programs.

Jeanty is doing it on 9.9 Y/Carry with a 13.5% TD% which is ******* insane. And again Boise St only loss so far is to Oregon by 3 points on the road and are now ranked #2 and probably about to move up to #1, and he had almost 200 yards and 3 TDs against them.

Other RBs playing well this season are:
Kaleb Johnson - Iowa. Clearly the 2nd best RB in the nation imo. Probably having a good enough season to finish top 10 in Heisman voting.
Omarion Hampton - UNC. On a garbage team, averaging <6 Y/Carry, and has 10 less TDs than Jeanty on more carries.
Bhayshul Tuten - VTech. Having a good season, but slightly worse statistically across the board than Kaleb Johnson. But on a 4-3 Team.
AJ Turner - Marshall. Great Y/A, but only 5 TDs on season, and Marshall isn't very good and only good game against Ohio St, he rushed for only 32 yards and 0 Tds.

Jeanty is far surpassing his competition this season.
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I understand he is far surpassing the RB competition, but his competition for the Heisman is from every position and from schools that play much higher competition. My point was, does anyone remember Heisman hype during the season like this for any Group of 5 player in the last 35 years? I don't.

And you basically made my argument that if he does win it, it is due to one game - Oregon.
 
CaneinBroward said:
I understand he is far surpassing the RB competition, but his competition for the Heisman is from every position and from schools that play much higher competition. My point was, does anyone remember Heisman hype during the season like this for any Group of 5 player in the last 35 years? I don't.

And you basically made my argument that if he does win it, it is due to one game - Oregon.
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I literally just told you Smith finished 8th and Penny finished 5th lol. Jeanty is playing FAR better than both of them.
 
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Calinative said:
I literally just told you Smith finished 8th and Penny finished 5th lol. Jeanty is playing FAR better than both of them.
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Read what I wrote..... did they receive Heisman hype during the season like Jeanty is?

Plus, you're really going to say 5th and 8th are significant showings? Come on dude.
 
Calinative said:
How do you think it's possible to finish 5th and not have heisman hype?
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Easy. It's called reading stats and voting based on that. The nice pat on the head to the guy from the little school who had a great season. Look at how many first place votes each received. Penny received a whopping 7 first place votes out of over 880 voters. Smith received 3 out of over 880 voters. No serious consideration.

Again, did you hear Penny or Smith's name being called as Heisman candidates during those season on College Gameday or any other pundits during that season?
 
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If Jeanty keeps this pace (which I dont think he will...I think he will have 1-2 games where he gets slowed).

But if he does go for 175-200 per game and averages 9-10 yards per carry and get 30+ TD's he will likely win. He is becoming a feel good story for one. But on the flip side forget who he is playing..if it was so easy there would be a RB every year from that conference doing it. What is has done is super impressive.

That being said I think even just 1 game held in check will doom him because there are the doubters waiting to pounce.

Cam just needs to keep his pace or close to it and stay firmly in 2nd/3rd in voters eyes. Gabriel is creeping up for the new media darling in Oregon.

I think even if Cam just makes it to NY its a massive win for Miami, Mario, and Cam.
 
HurricanePhilly said:
If Jeanty keeps this pace (which I dont think he will...I think he will have 1-2 games where he gets slowed).

But if he does go for 175-200 per game and averages 9-10 yards per carry and get 30+ TD's he will likely win. He is becoming a feel good story for one. But on the flip side forget who he is playing..if it was so easy there would be a RB every year from that conference doing it. What is has done is super impressive.

That being said I think even just 1 game held in check will doom him because there are the doubters waiting to pounce.

Cam just needs to keep his pace or close to it and stay firmly in 2nd/3rd in voters eyes. Gabriel is creeping up for the new media darling in Oregon.

I think even if Cam just makes it to NY its a massive win for Miami, Mario, and Cam.
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At this point it would be a MASSIVE upset for Cam to at least not be on that stage in NYC. He'd have to completely implode in the last 5 (hopefully 6) games.

He is leading the country in passing yards, passing touchdowns, total yards, touchdowns responsible for, QBR and is in the Top 3 in passer rating, yards per attempt, and adjusted yards per attempt.

He's having a genuinely historic season. I posted it in another thread but he currently has the 10th best QBR of every QB over the past 20 years. The 9 guys ahead of him were all first round picks or Russell Wilson, who is a Super Bowl winner.
 
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
At this point it would be a MASSIVE upset for Cam to at least not be on that stage in NYC. He'd have to completely implode in the last 5 (hopefully 6) games.

He is leading the country in passing yards, passing touchdowns, total yards, touchdowns responsible for, QBR and is in the Top 3 in passer rating, yards per attempt, and adjusted yards per attempt.

He's having a genuinely historic season. I posted it in another thread but he currently has the 10th best QBR of every QB over the past 20 years. The 9 guys ahead of him were all first round picks or Russell Wilson, who is a Super Bowl winner.
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yeah I was trying to be a non homer...its unfortunate the year he does this someone like Jeanty comes along. But again I think he slows.

The only thing I could see is if we run the ball the next 2 weeks the way we did last week and get a big lead Cam may not need to go for 350 and 4 TD's....but at the same time this offense can be so explosive we could easily go for 300 in the air and 200 on the ground. BUt I would hope even 250 2-3TD's and a W should just keep in where he is moving forward. I mean it feels like every game an announcer is saying "Thats a heisman moment" whether its a play he makes or a half/quarter he has.
 
The thing Cam has going for him is as a quarterback, he can win games for his team in dramatic fashion and Heisman voters love that ****. Jeanty played great against Oregon but still lost and even though it wasn’t his fault, he wasn’t able to have that “carry your team to victory” moment that Cam has already had multiple times.

Stats matter but the Heisman is about a lot more than just huge numbers or all these Air Raid quarterbacks who own every passing record would have gotten more consideration. If Miami goes undefeated and Cam continues his pace the award his his to lose.
 
Calinative said:
Cam is currently on pace to finish the regular season with:

4,350 Yards, 41 TDs, 9 INTs, on 468 Attempts and 5 Rush TDs. 10.18 Adjusted Y/A, 8.76 TD%

Last 5 Heisman Trophy Winners in the Regular Season:

Jayden Daniels: 3,812 Yards, 40 TDs, 4 INTs, on 327 Attempts!, and 10 Rush TDs. 13.55 Adjusted Y/A, 12.2% TD%.
Caleb Williams: 3,712 Yards, 34 TDs, 3 INTs, on 407 Attempts, and 10 Rush TDs. 10.50 Adjusted Y/A, 8.35% TD%.
Bryce Young: 3,901 Yards, 40 TDs, 4 INTs, on 418 Attempts, and 2 Rush TDs. 10.82 Adjusted Y/A, 9.60% TD%.
Joe Burrow: 4,366 Yards, 44 TDs, 6 INTs, on 401 Attempts, and 3 Rush TDs. 12.41 Adjusted Y/A, 10.97% TD%.
Kyler Murray: 3,674 Yards, 37 TDs, 7 INTs, on 306 Attempts!, and 11 Rush TDs. 13.40 Adjusted Y/A, 12.09% TD%.

So you can see Cam Ward is having an elite season, but is really only out-performing Caleb Williams' Heisman season to this point. He needs to increase his TD rate and decrease his INT rate over the next 5 games, to really make himself the runaway Heisman winner imo. Cause at this point he's unlikely to finish with fewer than 450 Attempts, which is far more than the other Heisman winners got. So his rate stats aren't likely to be as good tbh.
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I believe Joe burrow was also unanimous or close to it
 
Said it in another thread but I will keep on it. If cam loses to anyone not named jeanty I’ll be ****ed
 
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