Heather Dinich singes the NCAA- BIG TIME

[Ethnicsands]

When you are making decisions under uncertainty, of course you can make a 'good decision' that ends up turning out badly.

So yes, there's a distinction. But because of that, what makes something a good decisions is a thorough process to get to the right answer. Unearthing all options, investigating all candidates. If you don't do that, then you're making a bad decision, almost by definition. But if you do, then you're involved in the process. So there's no way to posit that she wasn't involved, but didn't make any bad decisions.

And that said, Coker and Shannon were bad decisions, not just bad hires. Shannon, especially. There is no way anyone who interviewed him could or should have thought he could handle the position.

 

[The Franchise]

Good example....For devils advocate purposes I would argue that the UF situation is slightly different in that they have to beat coaches away with a stick while we have coaches tuning us down left an right. We get guys from Rutgers telling us they are not interested while UF gets coaches over Notre Dame.

For the part in bold.....Donna has proved exceptional in fundraising even with a poor football team. She has raised what now....over $1.5 Billion for a small private organization. And I would challenge that according to the BOT the academic rankings are much more important than the football teams performance.

Quite simple in pretty much all the other areas which are higher up on her responsibilities she had excelled at this school.....Athletics have not excelled on the field. But getting out of the Big East to the ACC was a good thing long term, getting the bank united center built was a great thing (not saying she deserves all the credit for those).....but there have been good things as well.

Unfortunately on the field the teams have suffered......a quite honestly the whole ACC has....Remember how great of a basketball conference it was...how great GT, Wake, UVA were....Clemson was always a NCAA tourney team every few years, BC made a lot of sweet 16s......Now all have gone to crap.

I am not challenging Shalala's success in a variety of areas - fundraising and otherwise - concerning the university. I am disagreeing with your assertion that university president's at big time college football programs are not heavily involved with the hiring process for head coaches. All of these individuals, both the presidents and ADs, are highly political and savvy. They don't air disagreements in public; they come to an agreement in private and then attempt to interview and hire their targets.

UF's hiring was an anomaly in terms of the public knowing that the president unilaterally made the decision, given his prior relationship with Meyer and Spurrier's stellar and proven record at UF. in other words, it clearly was Machen driving the train there, bc Foley would have never been so dismissive of Spurrier if he were making the call. But that does not mean there are not disputes between presidents and ADs, and ultimately, the president's decision will carry the day.

I think when you look at Donna.....In the other areas of her responsibilities she feels more confident/comfortable in her knowledge and takes a more hands/alpha role in dealing with them.

With Athletics, she does not have that same level of confidence/comfort........She is more passive when it comes to those decisions and relies more on the people she has in charge of those areas. She quickly falls back in to quick comfortable dealings when situations arise(IE: Constantly reaching out for help/advice from Wisconsin folks 13 years later).

We as fans want that old, white haired, alpha dog guy that has been going to football games for 50+ years and shares our same passion for it, who treats it as a pet project above all else.....but she is not cut that way.

So I truly believe that she does not treat hiring the football coach the same way that the president of Bama, UF , Mich or OSU would.....For that reason I get why that rubs people the wrong way on these boards.

Monk, President Shalala probably knows 100x more about football than that geek ****** Gordon Gee at Ohio Taint.

Chise,

Ok, so I am wrong in my assumption on her "Alpha Dog" status when it comes to Athletics.....

So I ask the following:

Should there be a distinction between a "Bad Hire" and a "Bad Decision"?

Getting the right guy is does have a huge "crap shoot" element to it.....

Rich Rod was a no-brainer to Michigan, Dan Hawkins was the original Boise St Wonderboy...

But

Urban Meyer and Brian Kelly were as good as expected.....

Texas, OU, USC, Bama with all their resources, football is god culture......made numerous bad hires.....

So when it comes to our hires....

Randy seemed like a "Bad Decision" based upon the factors stated above.....

But was Perry Clark a "Bad Decision" at the time with his success at Tulane or was he just a "Hire" that did not work out? Was Coker a bad decision or just a bad hire?

Monk, I'm firmly of the opinion that many UM fans rip Shalala for our bad hires because they don't like her politics. It's really that simple. Most fans blame the AD for this sort of thing, and most of the time the hammer falls on the AD when they get too many hires wrong. It's telling when she gets ripped for the bad hires yet gets no credit for the good ones.

How many great hires has Bama made since Bear retired? 2 out of about 12? LSU struggled horribly for a long time, as have many other traditional football-centric universities. Hiring football corches is far from an exact science unless you have the resources to hire a guy like Saban away from the ficking NFL. ****, there were plenty who thought Urban's sissy offense would be destroyed by the SEC and that he'd flop at ufag.

 

[monkey1371]

When you are making decisions under uncertainty, of course you can make a 'good decision' that ends up turning out badly.

So yes, there's a distinction. But because of that, what makes something a good decisions is a thorough process to get to the right answer. Unearthing all options, investigating all candidates. If you don't do that, then you're making a bad decision, almost by definition. But if you do, then you're involved in the process. So there's no way to posit that she wasn't involved, but didn't make any bad decisions.

And that said, Coker and Shannon were bad decisions, not just bad hires. Shannon, especially. There is no way anyone who interviewed him could or should have thought he could handle the position.

I fully accept Shannon as a bad decision as reasons discussed before.....Coker I can see too as "long time assistant" with no HC aspirations was a "Red Flag"...


How about Clark and Haith? Other than playing the results.......What made them Bad Decisions at the time?

 

[Ethnicsands]

When you are making decisions under uncertainty, of course you can make a 'good decision' that ends up turning out badly.

So yes, there's a distinction. But because of that, what makes something a good decisions is a thorough process to get to the right answer. Unearthing all options, investigating all candidates. If you don't do that, then you're making a bad decision, almost by definition. But if you do, then you're involved in the process. So there's no way to posit that she wasn't involved, but didn't make any bad decisions.

And that said, Coker and Shannon were bad decisions, not just bad hires. Shannon, especially. There is no way anyone who interviewed him could or should have thought he could handle the position.

I fully accept Shannon as a bad decision as reasons discussed before.....Coker I can see too as "long time assistant" with no HC aspirations was a "Red Flag"...


How about Clark and Haith? Other than playing the results.......What made them Bad Decisions at the time?

Honestly, I'm more focused on FB. I think Clark sucked and thought so back then. So I don't know what to say abotu the decision other than I thought it sucked at the time. Haith, I really didn't even pay attention to that one so I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Monk, I'm firmly of the opinion that many UM fans rip Shalala for our bad hires because they don't like her politics. It's really that simple. Most fans blame the AD for this sort of thing, and most of the time the hammer falls on the AD when they get too many hires wrong. It's telling when she gets ripped for the bad hires yet gets no credit for the good ones.

How many great hires has Bama made since Bear retired? 2 out of about 12? LSU struggled horribly for a long time, as have many other traditional football-centric universities. Hiring football corches is far from an exact science unless you have the resources to hire a guy like Saban away from the ficking NFL. ****, there were plenty who thought Urban's sissy offense would be destroyed by the SEC and that he'd flop at ufag.

Interestingly, it seems to me more that it's folks who agree with DS's politics who rush to her defense anywhere and everywhere, as if she can't even be rationally criticized. While there may be people who have an agenda against her, I've done most of the discussing in these threads today and I certainly don't have one. I just disagree with those who want to proclaim her infallible.

As for hiring, it's a known fact in the business world that even if you do everything right in a hiring process, it's something of a coin flip whether you'll like the outcome. But if you make a dumb decision, the odds are obviously much worse. IMO Coker and Shannon were boneheaded decisions.

 

[Fzac75]

Anyone who thinks DS had or has no role in hiring the head football coach is just misinformed, to use a polite term.

And anyone who thinks that role is nothing other than a thumbs up or thumbs down on the AD's recommendation is, again, just misinformed.

And DS was particularly supportive of the Shannon hiring, in any case. Dee was on his way out and DS loved the Randy Shannon 'story.'

I think a lot of folks here don't know much about management.

Obviously you don't know anything about management either.....

How does it work? Lets apply actual practical, real world scenarios.

CEO of a large corporation....pick any industry. Technology, Marketing, Automotive, etc....

Lets use a fictional company that makes "Widgets"....

That CEO has multiple different departments reporting to them, Accounting, Marketing, Technology, Manufacturing, Operations, etc.....

Technology (which has a spotless record...AKA Paul Dee at that point) comes in and says we need to make a change to scale up. We have several choices in Database, Operating System and Software choices? However we recommend the following choice for the following reasons....

Ethnic.....Your position is that the CEO should know what the best course of action should be for the Technology department and know more about their area of expertise than they do correct?

HOW? Enlighten me....Then when accounting comes....The CEO should know more about Accounting then the Head of Accounting as well.

This is exactly what you expect of the President of a University.....It is Bizarro World.

Thornton Melon is that you?!

 

[Ethnicsands]

Anyone who thinks DS had or has no role in hiring the head football coach is just misinformed, to use a polite term.

And anyone who thinks that role is nothing other than a thumbs up or thumbs down on the AD's recommendation is, again, just misinformed.

And DS was particularly supportive of the Shannon hiring, in any case. Dee was on his way out and DS loved the Randy Shannon 'story.'

I think a lot of folks here don't know much about management.

Obviously you don't know anything about management either.....

How does it work? Lets apply actual practical, real world scenarios.

CEO of a large corporation....pick any industry. Technology, Marketing, Automotive, etc....

Lets use a fictional company that makes "Widgets"....

That CEO has multiple different departments reporting to them, Accounting, Marketing, Technology, Manufacturing, Operations, etc.....

Technology (which has a spotless record...AKA Paul Dee at that point) comes in and says we need to make a change to scale up. We have several choices in Database, Operating System and Software choices? However we recommend the following choice for the following reasons....

Ethnic.....Your position is that the CEO should know what the best course of action should be for the Technology department and know more about their area of expertise than they do correct?

HOW? Enlighten me....Then when accounting comes....The CEO should know more about Accounting then the Head of Accounting as well.

This is exactly what you expect of the President of a University.....It is Bizarro World.

Thornton Melon is that you?!

I was thinking someone would go there. Spot on. This cat wears a bow tie and has no idea about business.