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Golden Quote of Recruiting

CaneRage said:
ES, I understand what you are saying and it does make sense. I remember seeing a post on grassy about the potential of 5 stars as opposed to 4 as opposed to.... and on down the line and it did show that success did follow the star rankings. And I'll be the first to tell you, while I am not a "casual" fan, I don't have the knowledge that some on these boards have. I guess, like most, I just want to see a good mix because we do need strong depth and if that is what Golden is setting up.... well, OK, I'll go with that. Saying that, I want the MNC next year and not 5 years from now (but don't expect it). But there is also something to be said for bringing in kids that will bust their butts to play, bring back the hard work tradition that we used to be known for (remember when the Olineman would meet during the summer and push the truck around?) and when the games were the easiest part of the week? We haven't had that in a long time. Not sure Golden is going to get there, but if he can do it by bringing in these kids who'll work hard and then teach that to the next class and hold them accountable for doing so.... well, we may not be building for next year, but maybe in a few we can have a run like Ala. and LSU are doing now.... or what we did in the 80's and 90's. But who knows, I know am hoping what I want to see.... and maybe it is that Golden is just a bad evaluator... only time will tell.
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I don't disagree with any of this.

The star thing gets mis-used. True there are some star hounds that don't know any more than that. But there are plenty of kook aid drinkers who would say 'Ed reed' every time we took a commitment from some out of nowhere guy the past decade. Larry's right that the star system is far from perfect but there is information embedded in it. Generally its about which schools are recruiting a kid. The kids being chased by the most top programs tend to be the highest rated, and for good reason. Once you get away from the top 150 kids, I'm not sure there's much info left in the star system.

I am happy that AG is doing his own evals. I think he has a plan. I think he is sticking to his plan. I note that by going for so many non-obvious kids, he's going all-in on his evaluation abilities, so to speak. If he has a real eye for talent, we'll be just fine at UM. If not, his strategy is likely going to compound our talent issues.

Anyhow, I've been generally positive on our class so far, but am growing concerned about big uglies (lack thereof) and too few spots left for big pulls. But he may well sort that all out, so it's too early to judge.
 
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Larry said:
I've never been a fan of the star rankings...I just don't see the legitimacy in them...the evaluations aren't made by those with much legitimacy, and the curtain has been pulled back on why a lot of the kids are ranked the way they are ranked and the illegitimacy behind it all. There is a correlation between recruiting rankings and success, yes...but it doesn't show causation, IMO.
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Oh **** ya, I totally forgot to mention that the ******* books have been proven to be cooked.
 
Golden = Ireland as an evaluator.

One part of the equation is the makeup. Stable family, good work ethic, clean off the field. The other part is the tangibles, specifically size and speed.

This approach scares the **** out me at Miami for several reasons. First, you lose out on some of the hungry, chip on the shoulder guys that this program was built on. Second, you lose out on great football players who don't fit a size-speed prototype. Golden has shown he will bend on the latter with guys like Gionni Paul and Dallas Crawford. The mental makeup, though, has been a bright-line rule.
 
I definitely agree with you on the that post, D$...however, I fear its not simply a Golden thing...it was also a trait Randy had as highest on his queue...which tells me its coming from the tippy top moreso than simply the head coach, but its expounded by it if the head coach also backs this philosophy 100%.

Down here, not every diamond is polished at 17-18 years old. ****, it took Michael Irvin 40 years to look like a model citizen, and even then he has his run ins, but there isn't anyone else I'd rather have represent this University's standard of excellence.
 
So who are the players that we've supposedly passed over due to his emphasis on high character kids. Seems like we've gone after every high ranked kid. Aren't we even recruiting Demar Dorsey a guy even Urban Meyer wouldn't let in.
 
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bomb said:
People on the internet love stars, period. They will try to wrap it up and cover it with window dressing and other nonsense to deny it, but most of the time it comes back to people here trust guys who are unqualified and unemployable in any sort of football role on any level, and aren't employable by any real journalistic entity.

The NFL gets to watch 4 years of ABC, CBS, ESPN and coaches tape of fully developed players, they get to work them out, poke them, prod them, ask them idiotic questions, explore their minds... and they hit about 50% in the draft. Yet we trust failed mailmen who watch 3 minutes of JR year tape? I still find this astounding.

Save your outrage, I am not pointing fingers, and its just my opinion from 15 years or so of reading this stuff. The internet football rankings and rating should be treated as a novelty, a diversion, something fun, no more.

The highest ranked class in UM history was literally our worst (consensus #1under Erickson). And I am not exaggerating. I am not saying it didn't live up to expectations.. I am literally saying it was the very worst class in UM history. What a dichotomy, eh?

You gotta let your coach do his thing. If we were landing 20 kids in January I'd worry more. But the fact that we took a lot of these kids early in the cycle should tell you we got kids we wanted. I'd also point out that after LOI day last year (and also by some indirect references this year) Golden has specifically pointed out some kids he was excited about that were very lowly rated by the services. But we have no reason to doubt yet. Golden pulled in a really solid class in 7 weeks in the middle of a ****show last year. The class he "inherited" had three kids committed. I've NEVER seen anything like that. Usually you have 16-18 kids committed and you get to hold onto 12 of them or so. He basically started from scratch in December. Nuts. So to me, the early returns on his ability to recruit, his work ethic his process, his communication, his relationship building, his positivity, and his results to date, point to success.

Have fun with it, but all the empirical evidence, IMHO, shows me that this guy can recruit, and develop. I'm excited to watch it unfold. If it goes bad, I will be disappointed. But me and the mailmen don't know better. My 2 cents.
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I don't disagree with much that you've said. Basically,this is just good discussion to me. Some of his takes have me scratching my head,but it's also not like I'm saying fire the guy either. I'm just on record as saying that some things concern me. I did the same thing with Butch, the same thing with Coker,and the same thing with Randy.It's all discussion to me. This board (to me) is no different than the normal discussions I have with my friends concerning football. We talk about things as they unfold. We don't sit back with our lips zipped and only talk in hindsight.
 
I don't know, we took Kevin Grooms. If we take a guy like Tony Grimes or Demar Dorsey, will it be the exception that proves the rule?
 
DMoney said:
Golden = Ireland as an evaluator.

One part of the equation is the makeup. Stable family, good work ethic, clean off the field. The other part is the tangibles, specifically size and speed.

This approach scares the **** out me at Miami for several reasons. First, you lose out on some of the hungry, chip on the shoulder guys that this program was built on. Second, you lose out on great football players who don't fit a size-speed prototype. Golden has shown he will bend on the latter with guys like Gionni Paul and Dallas Crawford. The mental makeup, though, has been a bright-line rule.
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I like this approach for where the program is now.

Golden talks about his "core values", and I don't think it's coach speak.

After he's built a strong infrastructure, you might see a few more "borderline" guys make their way into the program.
 
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DMoney said:
Golden = Ireland as an evaluator.

One part of the equation is the makeup. Stable family, good work ethic, clean off the field. The other part is the tangibles, specifically size and speed.

This approach scares the **** out me at Miami for several reasons. First, you lose out on some of the hungry, chip on the shoulder guys that this program was built on. Second, you lose out on great football players who don't fit a size-speed prototype. Golden has shown he will bend on the latter with guys like Gionni Paul and Dallas Crawford. The mental makeup, though, has been a bright-line rule.
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I don't undertand these absolute generalizations and I find them frustrating. Its clear, not just by his actions, but by his direct comments, he's wants a mix, and he's certainly not above taking some bad mother ****ers. ****, he took Grooms this year and we're all over Grimes. You need some animals, but you also need some solid citizens to peer mentor them, keep them on the right side of the edge. The great thing about those solid citizens too is they actually end up on the field, not flunked out in Juco or in the dade county correctional system.

As for the "chip" type kids... he's all over them. Those are the "B" kids he mentions... hungry ******** that will push the "A" talent to be their best, or take their jobs from them. Kids that feel blessed to be here, and can't wait to repay the opportunity with hard work.

I'm not a recruiting coordinator, but from a personnel and motivational standpoint, it sounds like a great strategy.
 
CANE1775 said:
bomb said:
People on the internet love stars, period. They will try to wrap it up and cover it with window dressing and other nonsense to deny it, but most of the time it comes back to people here trust guys who are unqualified and unemployable in any sort of football role on any level, and aren't employable by any real journalistic entity.

The NFL gets to watch 4 years of ABC, CBS, ESPN and coaches tape of fully developed players, they get to work them out, poke them, prod them, ask them idiotic questions, explore their minds... and they hit about 50% in the draft. Yet we trust failed mailmen who watch 3 minutes of JR year tape? I still find this astounding.

Save your outrage, I am not pointing fingers, and its just my opinion from 15 years or so of reading this stuff. The internet football rankings and rating should be treated as a novelty, a diversion, something fun, no more.

The highest ranked class in UM history was literally our worst (consensus #1under Erickson). And I am not exaggerating. I am not saying it didn't live up to expectations.. I am literally saying it was the very worst class in UM history. What a dichotomy, eh?

You gotta let your coach do his thing. If we were landing 20 kids in January I'd worry more. But the fact that we took a lot of these kids early in the cycle should tell you we got kids we wanted. I'd also point out that after LOI day last year (and also by some indirect references this year) Golden has specifically pointed out some kids he was excited about that were very lowly rated by the services. But we have no reason to doubt yet. Golden pulled in a really solid class in 7 weeks in the middle of a ****show last year. The class he "inherited" had three kids committed. I've NEVER seen anything like that. Usually you have 16-18 kids committed and you get to hold onto 12 of them or so. He basically started from scratch in December. Nuts. So to me, the early returns on his ability to recruit, his work ethic his process, his communication, his relationship building, his positivity, and his results to date, point to success.

Have fun with it, but all the empirical evidence, IMHO, shows me that this guy can recruit, and develop. I'm excited to watch it unfold. If it goes bad, I will be disappointed. But me and the mailmen don't know better. My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with much that you've said. Basically,this is just good discussion to me. Some of his takes have me scratching my head,but it's also not like I'm saying fire the guy either. I'm just on record as saying that some things concern me. I did the same thing with Butch, the same thing with Coker,and the same thing with Randy.It's all discussion to me. This board (to me) is no different than the normal discussions I have with my friends concerning football. We talk about things as they unfold. We don't sit back with our lips zipped and only talk in hindsight.
Click to expand...

Agree, I've really enjoyed this. I don't think this is possible on any other site right now. I hope it stays up at this level.
 
Ethnicsands said:
NorthFlaCane said:
I don't know, we took Kevin Grooms. If we take a guy like Tony Grimes or Demar Dorsey, will it be the exception that proves the rule?
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Hope this is right. Grooms didn't get in. We don't really know the story there.
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No, we do know the story there, no?

Grooms was a bit thuggish and got in some trouble, but was very talented. He had offers from UF, FSU, VT, TENN, and many others. He was committed to VT and Golden turned him. So we definitely recruited and signed a kid with issues.

He didn't make it in academically. Hopefully he will make it in this year, but I haven't heard anything about him. Have you?
 
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bomb said:
Ethnicsands said:
NorthFlaCane said:
I don't know, we took Kevin Grooms. If we take a guy like Tony Grimes or Demar Dorsey, will it be the exception that proves the rule?
Click to expand...

Hope this is right. Grooms didn't get in. We don't really know the story there.
Click to expand...

No, we do know the story there, no?

Grooms was a bit thuggish and got in some trouble, but was very talented. He had offers from UF, FSU, VT, TENN, and many others. He was committed to VT and Golden turned him. So we definitely recruited and signed a kid with issues.

He didn't make it in academically. Hopefully he will make it in this year, but I haven't heard anything about him. Have you?
Click to expand...
No, we don't know the story there. The school doesn't tell you why people don't get in. You say he didn't get in "academically.". What we know is he didn't get in. What standards were applied to him and whether any off field issues impacted the decision, we don't know. That's all I'm saying. Grooms, for his part, sure seemed to think he was qualified for admission.
 
Ethnicsands said:
bomb said:
Ethnicsands said:
NorthFlaCane said:
I don't know, we took Kevin Grooms. If we take a guy like Tony Grimes or Demar Dorsey, will it be the exception that proves the rule?
Click to expand...

Hope this is right. Grooms didn't get in. We don't really know the story there.
Click to expand...

No, we do know the story there, no?

Grooms was a bit thuggish and got in some trouble, but was very talented. He had offers from UF, FSU, VT, TENN, and many others. He was committed to VT and Golden turned him. So we definitely recruited and signed a kid with issues.

He didn't make it in academically. Hopefully he will make it in this year, but I haven't heard anything about him. Have you?
Click to expand...
No, we don't know the story there. The school doesn't tell you why people don't get in. You say he didn't get in "academically.". What we know is he didn't get in. What standards were applied to him and whether any off field issues impacted the decision, we don't know. That's all I'm saying. Grooms, for his part, sure seemed to think he was qualified for admission.
Click to expand...

I think we can take that out of all of those programs, the fact that he ended up at Marshall shows his academics wasn't up to par.
 
Ethnicsands said:
bomb said:
Ethnicsands said:
NorthFlaCane said:
I don't know, we took Kevin Grooms. If we take a guy like Tony Grimes or Demar Dorsey, will it be the exception that proves the rule?
Click to expand...

Hope this is right. Grooms didn't get in. We don't really know the story there.
Click to expand...

No, we do know the story there, no?

Grooms was a bit thuggish and got in some trouble, but was very talented. He had offers from UF, FSU, VT, TENN, and many others. He was committed to VT and Golden turned him. So we definitely recruited and signed a kid with issues.

He didn't make it in academically. Hopefully he will make it in this year, but I haven't heard anything about him. Have you?
Click to expand...
No, we don't know the story there. The school doesn't tell you why people don't get in. You say he didn't get in "academically.". What we know is he didn't get in. What standards were applied to him and whether any off field issues impacted the decision, we don't know. That's all I'm saying. Grooms, for his part, sure seemed to think he was qualified for admission.
Click to expand...

Nah dude, like CJ said, he was all set, was having clearinghouse issues... it was academics. Saying it wasn't is a reach. He was good to go with the school all the way into August. They knew his issues before LOI day. ****, we knew his issues.

Kids always think they are good to go, because they are hopeful. Every kid.
 
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