Golden on WQAM 11/12/12

We thought it would change this year because we thought Golden was a better coach than that. Two years with a program like Miami and the dude should not lose to a 3-6 UVA team. It bodes poorly for the future.

This team without bush, EJ and Perryman is a one maybe two win team. Throw duke in there and we are winless. Think about that. Take away three of those four and we are winless. That's how young and bad the talent is. So when people point to UVAs record and say we should have beaten them, we are and for that game were 3 players short of being worse than them. Without EJ, Perryman and bush it was more like a 3 win UVA playing a 2 win Miami. Not making excuses that's just the reality of the situation.


I vehemently disagree with that being the reality of the situation. I'm sorry, but we are talent deprived for a MIAMI team, not relative to the rest of the nation. UVA would love to have our guys minus those four (if in exchange they got to keep Perry Jones, basically the only decent player on that team I can think of). Top to bottom, we are better than them from a pure talent perspective. We were better than UNC from a pure talent perspective as well, if you remember the game (although they are a bit more top heavy).

Our defense generally fails at reaction time, we don't suffer an inability to catch these guys from a speed perspective, and we are probably stronger than them too (the one real positive thing Golden has done so far that his predecessors did not). To the untrained eye the reaction time problems may look like a lack of speed or strength, but it is really a mental deficiency that our kids have been suffering from for years, and 9 games into this season it looks like we still suffer from those deficiencies. At this point in the year, a decent coach would have gotten these guys to improve upon that aspect of their game a little bit.

I respect your opinion but Larry did two whole threads at how bad our talent is as in DII talent not even worthy of UVA talent. A lot of the upperclassman are JAGS and not Miami jags but college football jags. When 3 of our 4 best players are out this team is cringe worthy bad. And that's not normal for a college team that plays 11 on each side of the ball.


But are these kids bad because they don't have the physical/mental tools, or are they bad because they aren't being developed and/or utilized correctly? No doubt some of these kids are awful for anywhere (Kacy Rodgers comes to mind, also Darius Smith), but the majority of them, I would contend, have very good athletic ability relative to the average college football player. No doubt much of our D-line sucks, but why has Chickillo, a guy who is obviously gifted, taken a step back this year? Is the "bust rate" so high because these kids were always horrible and should have never come to Miami, or is the rate of busts (still) so high because coaches are still not developing these kids properly?

We find out for sure next year, Perryman and Dorsett are the big guys to watch in that regard, both talented kids entering their junior season. It's tough to say with the emergence of Duke, Bush, and Eddie Johnson because even Shannon was able to develop guys into their Sophomore season. It was entering their junior years that everybody except Spence and Hankerson (self starters) failed to develop further.

That's all great, but most programs don't have to develop the vast majority of their teams in the line of fire. They develop them first in the weight room, film room, and practice field, where they can watch talented upperclassmen show them how it's supposed to be done. We don't have that luxury. We've got a 220-lb DE playing significant snaps as a true freshman. We've got several kids who were playing high school football a year ago contributing major minutes. They aren't developed enough physically or mentally to be competitive. The fact that we have been competitive all season except against the #'s 1 and 3 BCS teams is pretty good evidence that Golden and this staff are getting about as much as is possible from these kids at this stage of the rebuild.
 
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here we go with we're a young team bull****... clemson won the acc last year with the youngest team.. oregon is ranked #2 in the nation with a freshman qb and rb... you niggaz are making up excuses for Golden.. Golden can haul *** and take Dorito bag with him...
 
There is definitely a scheme problem no one disagrees with that but I factor that in with the youth thing and jag player thing. Put all together you get terrible play and a terrible record with losses to teams like UVA or UNC.

I think golden and company have put enough guys in the nfl from a MAC conference that makes me confident they can develop talent.
 
here we go with we're a young team bull****... clemson won the acc last year with the youngest team.. oregon is ranked #2 in the nation with a freshman qb and rb... you niggaz are making up excuses for Golden.. Golden can haul *** and take Dorito bag with him...

Ah, yes, Oregon...you mean the Oregon team that starts all Jrs and Srs on the DL, LB, and safeties? That Oregon?

DL --- 2 Jrs, 2 Srs.
LBs --- 2 Srs, 1 Jr.
Safeties --- 1 Jr, 1 Sr.
(The corners are both sophs).

And Kenjon Barner is a senior, not a freshman.
 
I vehemently disagree with that being the reality of the situation. I'm sorry, but we are talent deprived for a MIAMI team, not relative to the rest of the nation.

Based on what? This is pure delusion. Vegas saw it (we were an underdog on Saturday). Virtually every major media analyst saw it. ****, even the Beast saw it. The only people who didn't see it are delusional Miami fans stuck in the past.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you on the talent thing, but everyone 'seeing it' does not mean we were less talented, but simply rather that they thought we would lose; that can be talent, coaching or a combination of both. I actually agree with you that the talent level is horrible, but I dont think your argument holds much weight.

I was only referring to UVa in terms of Vegas, and they thought we would lose on Saturday. The rest refer to preseason predictions on how competitive we'd be over the course of the season. I don't know of anyone with a brain who thought this team would be any good. My argument may not have much weight, but there were countless analysts, like Phil Steele, who do this stuff for a living who thought we'd be a really crappy team this year. They were right. Crappy teams can get beaten by any other crappy team on any given Saturday.

Sebastian, you are missing the point. I actually agree with you that we are not that talented, but the argument you make does not hold up. You say 'based on what' implying that bg534's post is subjective, but then go on to use the fact that we were underdogs to back up your opinion that we have less talent. The problem is, Vegas doesn't pick b/c they think one team has more talent or one team has better coaching, they pick on those things combined and factor in other things like home field advantage. Bg534 could just as easily used Vegas picking UVA to say it's b/c our coaching is bad.

Sorry to 'attack' your post since I actually agree with the premise of it (talent is more the issue than coaching), but I'm just suggesting you make a stronger argument if you are going to call out someone else's post as 'delusional' and then use a weak argument to back yours up.
 
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I vehemently disagree with that being the reality of the situation. I'm sorry, but we are talent deprived for a MIAMI team, not relative to the rest of the nation.

Based on what? This is pure delusion. Vegas saw it (we were an underdog on Saturday). Virtually every major media analyst saw it. ****, even the Beast saw it. The only people who didn't see it are delusional Miami fans stuck in the past.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you on the talent thing, but everyone 'seeing it' does not mean we were less talented, but simply rather that they thought we would lose; that can be talent, coaching or a combination of both. I actually agree with you that the talent level is horrible, but I dont think your argument holds much weight.

I was only referring to UVa in terms of Vegas, and they thought we would lose on Saturday. The rest refer to preseason predictions on how competitive we'd be over the course of the season. I don't know of anyone with a brain who thought this team would be any good. My argument may not have much weight, but there were countless analysts, like Phil Steele, who do this stuff for a living who thought we'd be a really crappy team this year. They were right. Crappy teams can get beaten by any other crappy team on any given Saturday.

Sebastian, you are missing the point. I actually agree with you that we are not that talented, but the argument you make does not hold up. You say 'based on what' implying that bg534's post is subjective, but then go on to use the fact that we were underdogs to back up your opinion that we have less talent. The problem is, Vegas doesn't pick b/c they think one team has more talent or one team has better coaching, they pick on those things combined and factor in other things like home field advantage. Bg534 could just as easily used Vegas picking UVA to say it's b/c our coaching is bad.

Sorry to 'attack' your post since I actually agree with the premise of it (talent is more the issue than coaching), but I'm just suggesting you make a stronger argument if you are going to call out someone else's post as 'delusional' and then use a weak argument to back yours up.

I understand what you're saying, but have you ever seen or heard any legit journalist say a single negative thing about Golden's coaching ability or player development skills? Have you ever seen or heard anything out of Vegas questioning the abilities of the coaching staff? I haven't either. On the contrary, everyone I see and hear has nothing but great things to say about him. Therefore, I don't think it's that big of a leap to use Vegas and major media analysts to support an argument that our talent is not only bad for Miami, but also bad on a national scale. When people who know what they're talking about love the coach, but predict a 3-6 win season, well...I think that speaks volumes. I don't pay for ESPN Insider, but I'd be willing to bet that there aren't very many draft-eligibles on our roster that also show up on Kiper's big board.
 
When all is said and done, Miami is going to be 7-5 or 6-6 this year. UVA will likely be 5-7 this year. We lost to them by 1 point on the 2nd to last play of the game on the road missing our 3 best defensive players and a starting WR. I'm not seeing why people are shocked and mortified that we lost to UVA. Do we want to be at a point where we don't lose to teams like UVA? Of course. Are we there now? No.
 
When all is said and done, Miami is going to be 7-5 or 6-6 this year. UVA will likely be 5-7 this year. We lost to them by 1 point on the 2nd to last play of the game on the road missing our 3 best defensive players and a starting WR. I'm not seeing why people are shocked and mortified that we lost to UVA. Do we want to be at a point where we don't lose to teams like UVA? Of course. Are we there now? No.

Especially considering that we very easily could have the same or worse record than UVa. VT, NCSU, and GT were all games we won but very easily could've lost, and should've lost in some cases.
 
When all is said and done, Miami is going to be 7-5 or 6-6 this year. UVA will likely be 5-7 this year. We lost to them by 1 point on the 2nd to last play of the game on the road missing our 3 best defensive players and a starting WR. I'm not seeing why people are shocked and mortified that we lost to UVA. Do we want to be at a point where we don't lose to teams like UVA? Of course. Are we there now? No.

Because Vegas predicted UVA to win by 1 point and they did just that. We could have one the game but we didn't.

Just win the final two games, move forward.
 
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I should also point out that I'm not necessarily saying that Golden will fail, or that he is already a failure. I need to be clear about the overarching goal of my argument. I'm contending that Golden is doing less with more. My contention is that with the loss to Virginia, all of the is beginning to look a little bit familiar. Golden is only one game better than Shannon was at this point in their respective Miami careers. Our recruiting appears to be on track, but it appeared to be on track at this point in Shannon's career as well. Nothing really looks all that different, except for our team being a little bit stronger and better conditioned (no more losing half the team in the fourth quarter with cramps).

I want the Canes to win more than I want to win this argument, but after seeing two consecutive bad coaches at this program, it is hard to ignore warning signs that the third might not be much better. I haven't entirely lost faith in Golden (not like I have a choice), but my faith in the man is wavering. We look like the same Miami teams we've been watching since Coker sank us, with only marginal differences.
 
You people wanting a new coach might just get your wish. That interview is the first time I have thought to my self, if Tennessee came in tomorrow and offered Golden the same amount of money (not more) he would be gone.

The man is tired of all the off field **** he is dealing with; from players, to 4 AD's, to probation it has not stopped since the day he got here and he is fed up with it.

If you dont like Golden and want him fired just think to your self, "man I bet a really good coach will want to come in and take this job with all the **** storm of problems we have"

Then think to your self, "Im a ****ing moron"
I LOL'd.
A copula' things though. First beat the ishtty teams on your schedule and things will seem brighter, losing to UNC and UVA were bad losses IMO.
Stop acting like it's all wine and roses at every other program. Everyone has their issues it's just a matter of where you live and if you hear about them.
I like Golden and I'm glad he's the coach, but I don't want to hear any more of this poor Al BS.

Ever think that we are the ****ty team on other team's schedule?

That's irrelevant, I'm speaking from a Miami fans perspective, UVA, UNC and USF are crap to mediocre to most fans. It's been years now since Miami has beaten the teams they should beat and yes, I consider a 3-6 team one Miami should beat

That is my point, there are no longer any of those teams on our schedule, outside of BCC. At this point there are no teams that Miami should beat. Almost all the teams on our schedule have had an equal amount of success if not more in the last 5 years. As a program, we are not at the point where we can say we should beat Duke or Wake or USF or UVA. Right now they are our equals.

this.
 
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I'm contending that Golden is doing less with more.

How can you say that in one sentence, and say that you're not saying that you think he's already a failure in another sentence? If he's doing less with more, then he's clearly a failure. Most people think he's doing more with less, but, hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
 
Preseason. Analysts, commentators, writers, and jack-leg experts, considering our youth and inexperience, picked us to win 4 games, and suggested that if we won 6 games, we would have real reason to celebrate.

We're on schedule.

And I confess to being the most impatient ****** among us - but reality is, we're almost like Marshall when they had to build a complete team from the ground up.

Careful recruiting and coaching will show overall progression over the next three years. ****, I don't like it either. I want it all, and I want it now.

If we can now just get some of the self-centered, immature clowns off the team and the **** away from it, we'll have players we can rely on. Not get suspended because of dumbass siht that hurts the entire team in close games.

They're fighting, they're not quitting, and they're still pups.

We have a lot to look forward to.
 
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LOL, I said "legit journalist". But, OK, I remember him saying something when he was hired. Has he said anything since then?


How many "legit" journalists are there in all of college football? I would contend that almost none of these guys possess journalistic integrity, and they all succumb to bias, and every single one of them who once had journalistic integrity has sold out to their respective networks, for the sake of turning news into entertainment. A microcosm of media as a whole, IMO.

That said, Whitlock's opinion on Golden was very thought out, and came from knowledge of the situation that few have. He might have gotten a fact wrong here or there, but you asked me if anybody who is legitimate (of which you have your own criteria that somehow negates the ostensibly legitimate journalist I mentioned), and I provided it. Whitlock is about as legit as it gets in major network/publication/digital media.

I'm contending that Golden is doing less with more.

How can you say that in one sentence, and say that you're not saying that you think he's already a failure in another sentence? If he's doing less with more, then he's clearly a failure. Most people think he's doing more with less, but, hey, you're entitled to your opinion.


He can still recruit a decent team for us, and he still has two years to work on his craft, which does, indeed, need to be worked on. He is certainly failing right now, but that does not necessarily mean he won't get it together in year three or four, that he won't adapt to his situation, or that he won't recruit well enough to overcome his deficiencies in other areas of coaching. I'm just saying, he doesn't look good now, and everything that looks good and promising is identical to what looked good and promising with Shannon at this point in his career, there isn't much of a difference. Better conditioning (and the conditioning isn't exactly perfect, either, although that, more than anything else, may be due to the combination of youth and years of poor conditioning within our program) is the only improvement I see thus far.

No doubt this team has problems and talent deficiencies at certain positions (DL, particularly DT, safety), but we still have a lot of talent at others. Our O-line is great. Our corners are great. We have a good defensive end in Chickillo (who has been stagnant in his growth much of the year, another concerning factor), and even with our best DT back in the lineup in Porter, giving us previously non-existent penetration, we still found a way to have an awful defense. Being 119th in defense is unacceptable, even with a deficiency at two positions. For much of the year we have been relatively strong at corner, and we have had a very talented, although young, corp of linebackers. No excuse to be this bad, this late into the year.

You would think the light would come on for more than one guy (Deon Bush). I generally expect a well-coached team to improve by the end of the year, as kids get more familiar with the schemes and pick up more experience, not regress. Seems like a pretty standard expectation to me, to expect some improvement, and when that improvement doesn't manifest itself I think it fair to point the finger at the coaches.
 
If we can now just get some of the self-centered, immature clowns off the team and the **** away from it, we'll have players we can rely on. Not get suspended because of dumbass siht that hurts the entire team in close games.

Those are Golden's guys, the ones we are relying on to bring us back, who are doing the clownery. Eddie Johnson and Rashawn Scott are the guys who got suspended. We need them on the team if we are going to have any hope of a return to relevance.
 
bg, you're entitled to your opinion. I fully disagree that Golden is failing at anything. He has very little to work with, and under the totality of the circumstances, it's a miracle that we've done as well as we have. Like it or not, our talent is at a similar level to the other ACC bottom-dwellers. You can bury your head in the sand and think that this isn't possible for Miami, but that's the reality. Time will tell whether our talent has more upside or not. I don't give a rat's *** where the defense is ranked. Many people, including me, thought this could be a 3 or 4 win team this season. We're at 5 and can get to 7. Golden has done a **** good job this year. We won't know if his tenure is more similar to Schnelly or Shannon for a few more years, but I'm going to enjoy the ride, support the team and coaches, and keep watching whether we win or lose.
 
You people wanting a new coach might just get your wish. That interview is the first time I have thought to my self, if Tennessee came in tomorrow and offered Golden the same amount of money (not more) he would be gone.

The man is tired of all the off field **** he is dealing with; from players, to 4 AD's, to probation it has not stopped since the day he got here and he is fed up with it.

If you dont like Golden and want him fired just think to your self, "man I bet a really good coach will want to come in and take this job with all the **** storm of problems we have"

Then think to your self, "Im a ****ing moron"

The first time I saw Golden shaky was the practice interview session the day following the Yahoo story. He lacked his usual confidence and self possessed style. Maybe Al seemed off or shaky to you because he has been told something recently regarding the investigation?

It has to seem unfair and overwhelming to him at times......
 
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