FSU 2012 Offense - James Coley

[LuCane]

I'm on a mission to watch every piece of film available on the internet of FSU's 2012 offense. My hope is that this thread becomes a discussion about James Coley's concepts (at least under his title) and how it relates to the University of Miami.

Here are a few early things I've noted:

- FSU offense had a shocking lack of rhythm at times. I don't know how much that has to do with James Coley's preparation and how much can be attributed to Jimbo's gameday playcalling. I'm inclined to say it has more to do with playcalling.

- FSU completely over-rotated their RBs. We won't have that problem for this upcoming season because we don't have as many options, obviously. However, this is a potential concern in the future. I don't know the reasoning for their substitution patterns. It could be anything from wanting to keep guys "super fresh" to wanting to keep everyone relatively happy. From what I've watched so far, it has a real effect on players getting into a flow.

- FSU was far more horizontal (w/ screens, edge runs, and zone-reads) than I previously thought. I certainly hope we don't go in this direction and that Coley differentiates our offense from that identity.

- FSU was often times completely bipolar in its approach. They'd go from running straightforward power runs (leads) to getting their OLinemen in space and working the edges. Sometimes in a single drive. Sometimes after one was working. This was a consistent gripe (at least from me) about Fisch. I don't know if the popular thing for O-Coordinators or playcallers is to prove how fancy/multiple they can be, or if some of these coaches are just misinterpreting what guys like Sean Payton do in the NFL. In any case, this isn't the NFL. Pick an identity and everything else is an add-on. Play off of a foundation instead of making the foundation so multiple.

We've heard some words and general ideas come from the staff re: what this offense will be. We've heard Stephen Morris explain how he thinks it has helped the team. I'd like to spark a discussion here based on actual on-field evidence (past, present or future).

 

[G Reg3rdLeg]

One thing Coley has constantly talked about since he's been here, has been about being "multiple" so I would expect this offense to have a "bipolar" feel as you describe it.

This isn't necesarily a bad thing, if your offense is capable of running it efficiently it makes your offense very difficult to prepare for. This team should be able to do it because we have 5 big athletic experienced offensive linemen, an elite college level QB, and playmakers at every skill position.

 

[skyman]

From the open practice we had, get used to the horizontal stuff, we ran alot of screens if that means anything. But in articles he has stated we will be more vertical so it could of just been a spring thing of not showing too much.

Also with regards to FSU, they had really good numbers for their offense but whenever I watched them play they seemed to be a mix and match type offense and never really seemed to stick to one thing. Watching them play you wouldnt think they would be ranked soo high.

 

[motorcitycane]

Great thread Lu,

I agree about the over rotation of the backs. I don't like that at all. I like to have 1-2 guys going over 1000 yards on the ground not for 2500+ Rushing yards not 5 running backs with 500+ yards I know the total yardage is the same but it kills guys draft stocks. It can be very inconsistent, as you stated, as far as backs establishing a rhythm. I believe most of it was due to Jimbo's play-calling.

As far as the multiple offense goes I don't mind it at all. I like that we can be vertical in the passing game and still be able to run the ball. Some teams can't run the football but can throw 3500+ yards every season. Some teams can't pass the ball but they'll rush for over 3000+ yards a season. I wouldn't mind a 50-50 split. 6000-7000 total yards on the season. 3000+Rushing yards and 3000+ passing yards. I think that makes it more difficult for teams to game plan against you. If you run an air raid offense obviously teams will have 4-5 CB on the field to counter that 4-5 WR set. If you run the ball primarily. Teams will just put 8-9 in the box and try to stop the run. Some will even bring the SS up to play the run. Multiple gives us the advantage because we dictate what the defense does and they don't have the ability to play their base defense.

 

[LuCane]

Sky,

They ran the ball 513 times last year for a 5.6 average. As a comparison, we ran the ball 371 times for a 4.7 average. Those statistics may be slightly skewed because of the concepts: Manuel ran the ball 101 times for a 3.0 average while Morris ran it 51 times for 1.4 average. For those wondering, it's not like we threw the ball a ton more. FSU threw 288/428 for 8.6/attempt. The Hurricanes threw 264/447 for 7.93/attempt.

The point is that, just looking at the FSU stats, you'd think they were a consistent, efficient offense with great pace and rhythm. Watching the film, they were often times very disjointed in their playcalling and concepts. Having the ability to be multiple is good. Being good doesn't come from being multiple, however.

What will be good at doing consistently against avergage to above average defenses?

 

[marshallrc13]

I hated their offense the last few years. Way too many WR screens and short passes. Not much vertical IMO. And yes they rotated RBs too much for my liking. No one could really get into a rhythm. I am hoping it was due to Jimbo calling the plays and the lack of a true throwing QB. EJ to me was nothing more than a great athlete behind center. Time will tell. I don't see our offense changing much.

 

[hollyhood27]

There was defiantly a lot of turmoil between the 2. Coley would do all the work Sunday through Friday and then jimbo would take over(completely over) on Saturdays.

 

[LuCane]

There was defiantly a lot of turmoil between the 2. Coley would do all the work Sunday through Friday and then jimbo would take over(completely over) on Saturdays.

Was hoping you'd chime in. Any perspective on why things seem so disjointed on the field (as opposed to stats)?

 

[JHallCanes]

Two completely different QBs to draw from makes it tough to compare offenses from last year.

I remember stomaching a few FSU games last year and laughing at times when they would abandon an efficient run game for long stretches. I don't know if our running game can be that strong, especially with the threat of EJ, but I would hope we would be more interested in controlling the clock this year if possible, since that really hurt our already shorthanded defense.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Coley DID stress verbally that he wanted to go vertically more. More. More is a nebulous word that doesn't tell me squat.

In Coley's defense, Jimbo could confuse a perfect two-truck convoy.

We did waste a lot of time going outside last season. Play after play, after play. So did FSU. I seem to remember watching us the first few games, and it seemed we didn't have the first downfield throw, certainly nothing in the middle.

Or was that my 'magination?

 

[JHallCanes]

Coley DID stress verbally that he wanted to go vertically more. More. More is a nebulous word that doesn't tell me squat.

In Coley's defense, Jimbo could confuse a perfect two-truck convoy.

We did waste a lot of time going outside last season. Play after play, after play. So did FSU. I seem to remember watching us the first few games, and it seemed we didn't have the first downfield throw, certainly nothing in the middle.

Or was that my 'magination?

Pretty much zero threat in the middle, or as Lu called it, the "Fisch Zone".

Walford, Sandland, Cleveland need to fix that.

 

[marshallrc13]

Coley DID stress verbally that he wanted to go vertically more. More. More is a nebulous word that doesn't tell me squat.

In Coley's defense, Jimbo could confuse a perfect two-truck convoy.

We did waste a lot of time going outside last season. Play after play, after play. So did FSU. I seem to remember watching us the first few games, and it seemed we didn't have the first downfield throw, certainly nothing in the middle.

Or was that my 'magination?

Pretty much zero threat in the middle, or as Lu called it, the "Fisch Zone".

Walford, Sandland, Cleveland need to fix that.

Utilizing the TEs changes the whole complexion of the defense. Keeps the LBs honest and limits their ability/willingness to blitz. We need to get back to the days of using the TE predominantly. Dorsey always threw to the TE and it opened up everything else.

 

[Kn[]_[]ckles3o5]

Sky,

They ran the ball 513 times last year for a 5.6 average. As a comparison, we ran the ball 371 times for a 4.7 average. Those statistics may be slightly skewed because of the concepts: Manuel ran the ball 101 times for a 3.0 average while Morris ran it 51 times for 1.4 average. For those wondering, it's not like we threw the ball a ton more. FSU threw 288/428 for 8.6/attempt. The Hurricanes threw 264/447 for 7.93/attempt.

The point is that, just looking at the FSU stats, you'd think they were a consistent, efficient offense with great pace and rhythm. Watching the film, they were often times very disjointed in their playcalling and concepts. Having the ability to be multiple is good. Being good doesn't come from being multiple, however.

What will be good at doing consistently against avergage to above average defenses?

Do these totals include the two extra games FSU played last season? If yes then they ran more than us and threw less. If they are just regular season numbers then their D had a lot to do with how many snaps the offense had per game to be able to run so much more and throw about the same. I think Coley will have a more open style than Jimbob, not quite as run heavy.

 

[LuCane]

Sky,

They ran the ball 513 times last year for a 5.6 average. As a comparison, we ran the ball 371 times for a 4.7 average. Those statistics may be slightly skewed because of the concepts: Manuel ran the ball 101 times for a 3.0 average while Morris ran it 51 times for 1.4 average. For those wondering, it's not like we threw the ball a ton more. FSU threw 288/428 for 8.6/attempt. The Hurricanes threw 264/447 for 7.93/attempt.

The point is that, just looking at the FSU stats, you'd think they were a consistent, efficient offense with great pace and rhythm. Watching the film, they were often times very disjointed in their playcalling and concepts. Having the ability to be multiple is good. Being good doesn't come from being multiple, however.

What will be good at doing consistently against avergage to above average defenses?

Do these totals include the two extra games FSU played last season? If yes then they ran more than us and threw less. If they are just regular season numbers then their D had a lot to do with how many snaps the offense had per game to be able to run so much more and throw about the same. I think Coley will have a more open style than Jimbob, not quite as run heavy.

Yes, I imagine this is w/ two more games. It's just total season stats. It'd be unusual for them to have that many more plays than we did.

 

[CANE]

Don't want to see Morris running QB- option.

 

[CaneInTheHouse]

Coley DID stress verbally that he wanted to go vertically more. More. More is a nebulous word that doesn't tell me squat.

In Coley's defense, Jimbo could confuse a perfect two-truck convoy.

We did waste a lot of time going outside last season. Play after play, after play. So did FSU. I seem to remember watching us the first few games, and it seemed we didn't have the first downfield throw, certainly nothing in the middle.

Or was that my 'magination?

Pretty much zero threat in the middle, or as Lu called it, the "Fisch Zone".

Walford, Sandland, Cleveland need to fix that.

Utilizing the TEs changes the whole complexion of the defense. Keeps the LBs honest and limits their ability/willingness to blitz. We need to get back to the days of using the TE predominantly. Dorsey always threw to the TE and it opened up everything else.

I agree we need to get back to the days of using the TE, but we also need to get back to a ground game off tackle that overpowers defenses like we had as well. If we needed 1 or 2 yards back in the day, we ran it for 3.

 

[88]

Don't want to see Morris running QB- option.

Ya this is the ******* **** that needs to stay the **** at FSU

 

[madstork]

Can you give some specific examples when they over-rotated backs?

When looking at the QB rush numbers remember that includes sacks. Morris was sacked 17 times, while Manuel was sacked 26 times.

If you want to look at passing concepts 2011 might be better when they were forced to throw the ball more due to OL injuries.


When you look at opponent adjusted advanced stats the FSU O in 2012 was top 25. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus2012

When you look further they were ranked last (124th) in methodical drives: percentage of drives that run ten or more plays.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2012

 

[gbryant]

I wonder if the horizontal passing and ball control offense they had last year was part of a overall team strategy to lean on the strength of there team which was there defense. Of course I dnt know that, but I wanted to what some of u guys thought.

 

[hollyhood27]

There was defiantly a lot of turmoil between the 2. Coley would do all the work Sunday through Friday and then jimbo would take over(completely over) on Saturdays.

Was hoping you'd chime in. Any perspective on why things seem so disjointed on the field (as opposed to stats)?

Because you have a guy who was HC, OC and QB coach. And Jimbo is the epitome of little man's syndrome. And he obsessively over everything. At times you can see him still yelling at certain players on the sideline in the middle of drives.